Why the tiger almost killed Roy.

I'm pretty sure most of you have heard of Siegfried & Roy and their
tigers. In case you haven't heard, one of the tigers finally mauled
their "trainer" Roy.
(BTW, I am very against "training" wild animals to perform for human
amusement)

So, from the "take a lesson" department - the reason the tiger almost
killed Roy...

From: http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-roy06.html

Horn told the tiger to lie down. When it refused, Horn tapped the cat on
the nose with a microphone to get its attention. The animal grabbed at
Horn's arm, causing the entertainer to stumble.

The tiger then lunged at Horn, who tried to beat the animal away with
the microphone. Audience members said the tiger dragged Horn off the
stage by the neck. The attack barely missed severing Horn's carotid
artery.

So, he irritates a 500 pound animal to get its attention, tries to force
it to do something it doesn't want to do, then when it gets ****y, tries
to get it to let go by beating it.
I'd say it didn't work too well.

When will people learn that eventually, the wild animal is going to
decide it doesn't like being made to do something and decide it really
is bigger than you? There is no such thing as a "tame" wild animal. If
there were, we'd call them domesticated.
*sigh*

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
All I ask for is the chance to prove that money
cannot make me happy.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

Hi kaeli,
It's was on the news over here. I dont feel any sympathy for the man
at all . It's a shame these shows are still allowed in this day and
age. The same as people keeping tigers as pets . I believe there are
about 80,000 of them . Why aren't the welfare groups putting pressure
on the venues and arranging boycotts and demonstrations? No shows -
no performing wild animals .
Alison

--
I'm pretty sure most of you have heard of Siegfried & Roy and their
tigers. In case you haven't heard, one of the tigers finally mauled
their "trainer" Roy.
(BTW, I am very against "training" wild animals to perform for human
amusement)

So, from the "take a lesson" department - the reason the tiger
almost
killed Roy...

From: http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-roy06.html

Horn told the tiger to lie down. When it refused, Horn tapped the

cat on
the nose with a microphone to get its attention. The animal grabbed
at
Horn's arm, causing the entertainer to stumble.

The tiger then lunged at Horn, who tried to beat the animal away
with
the microphone. Audience members said the tiger dragged Horn off the
stage by the neck. The attack barely missed severing Horn's carotid
artery.

So, he irritates a 500 pound animal to get its attention, tries to
force
it to do something it doesn't want to do, then when it gets ****y,
tries
to get it to let go by beating it.
I'd say it didn't work too well.

When will people learn that eventually, the wild animal is going to
decide it doesn't like being made to do something and decide it
really
is bigger than you? There is no such thing as a "tame" wild animal.
If
there were, we'd call them domesticated.
*sigh*

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
All I ask for is the chance to prove that money
cannot make me happy.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

Why aren't the welfare groups putting pressure
on the venues and arranging boycotts and demonstrations?

I agree that using wild animals for entertainment purposes is unfair, but I'm
not sure how I feel about boycotting S&R. I recently went to Las Vegas and
stayed at the Mirage. I visited the animal areas, and was surprised to learn
that Siegfried and Roy spend a lot of money on conservation programs. In
addition to the lions and tigers, they also have a dolphin facility. There was
some work done on dolphin behavior there, which I remembered as being similar
to my own behavioral research with chimpanzees. The ideal solution would be to
cut the performing, and focus on the conservation. Maybe that's what they'll do
going forward.
I guess the point it, they have done some good for seriously threatened
species, in addition to their show work. At least *part* of the ludicrous
amount of money they make goes back to the animals.
-Jen
Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

OSPAM (JLove98905) wrote in message ...
Why aren't the welfare groups putting pressure
on the venues and arranging boycotts and demonstrations?

I agree that using wild animals for entertainment purposes is unfair, but I'm
not sure how I feel about boycotting S&R. I recently went to Las Vegas and
stayed at the Mirage. I visited the animal areas, and was surprised to learn
that Siegfried and Roy spend a lot of money on conservation programs. In
addition to the lions and tigers, they also have a dolphin facility.

That is totally and completely f'ed up. Dolphins and Orcas belong in
the wild, period. It is completely wrong to cage an animal which
swims literally hundreds of miles per day in a tank of any size. If
you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile."

There was
some work done on dolphin behavior there, which I remembered as being similar
to my own behavioral research with chimpanzees.

Oh, great. A great ape user.

-L.

If you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile."

I never said this was cool (I wish it didn't happen at all). But it is
educational. Where do you think conservation research is conducted?

Oh, great. A great ape user.

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a biologist who
studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage) are at least
putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would definitely
prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at least they can
give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do.
-Jen

Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

JLove98905" wrote in message
...

Hi,
Jane Goodall is my hero . I read her book many years ago when she was
young she went into the forests to study the wild chimps , rather
brave of her.
A while back some elderly research chimps were offered to rescue
societies in America but sadly they couldn't help then due to the
cost of keeping them in retirement .I don't know what happened to them
..
The drugs we use are tested on animals but mainly by guinea pigs and
rats , not by chimps I hope. ( I still feel for the rats and GPs,
though ) Humans are also used to study drugs after they've been
tested on animals . I'm taking part in at a study in the Uk *Are new
treatments for rheumatoid arthritis harmful to long-term health* . I
flipping well hope not. LOL
Alison

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a
biologist who
studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything
invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And
anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards.
Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that
was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I
was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian
to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal
world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not
the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own
health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study
was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage)
are at least
putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would
definitely
prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at
least they can
give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do.
-Jen

Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

JLove98905" wrote in message
...

Hi,
Jane Goodall is my hero . I read her book many years ago when she was
young she went into the forests to study the wild chimps , rather
brave of her.
A while back some elderly research chimps were offered to rescue
societies in America but sadly they couldn't help then due to the
cost of keeping them in retirement .I don't know what happened to them
..
The drugs we use are tested on animals but mainly by guinea pigs and
rats , not by chimps I hope. ( I still feel for the rats and GPs,
though ) Humans are also used to study drugs after they've been
tested on animals . I'm taking part in at a study in the Uk *Are new
treatments for rheumatoid arthritis harmful to long-term health* . I
flipping well hope not. LOL
Alison

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a
biologist who
studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything
invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And
anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards.
Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that
was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I
was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian
to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal
world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not
the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own
health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study
was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage)
are at least
putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would
definitely
prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at
least they can
give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do.
-Jen

Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

OSPAM (JLove98905) wrote in message ...
If you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile."

I never said this was cool (I wish it didn't happen at all). But it is
educational. Where do you think conservation research is conducted?

Oh, great. A great ape user.

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a biologist who
studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

What facility did you work at? What organization did you work for?

-L.

OSPAM (JLove98905) wrote in message ...
If you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile."

I never said this was cool (I wish it didn't happen at all). But it is
educational.

Not educational to anyone I know of.

Where do you think conservation research is conducted?

In the wild. Good research is, at least.


Oh, great. A great ape user.

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research.

No, some people have no ethics when it comes to animal research. I
have a whole list of them, if you's like me to continue...

I'm a biologist who
studies biomedical concepts.

"Biomedical concepts" - What is that mumbo-jumbo for? Irrelelvant
bull**** to justify using animals for profit?


I personally couldn't do anything invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing.

Oh, so mice and other "lower" species are ok? How nice.

And anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals.

You are making assumptions about me. I would be more than happy to
forego any and all drugs to put an end to animal abuse at the hands of
researchers.

My behavior study was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

At what facility? By whom was your research funded?


My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage) are at least
putting some of their money back into animal conservation.

And the breed and sell white (and other) tigers and other big cats to
anyone with enough money to pay for them - to be used in entertainment
and other modes of exploitation. That's really "conservation"
oriented.


I would definitely
prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at least they can
give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do.

Yep, a smack on the nose, a crack of the whip, subjecting them to
domination and life in captivity. How humane.

-L.

OSPAM (JLove98905) wrote in message ...
If you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile."

I never said this was cool (I wish it didn't happen at all). But it is
educational. Where do you think conservation research is conducted?

Oh, great. A great ape user.

Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a biologist who
studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything invasive to
chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And anything I
would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some
research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely
behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet
in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure
humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no
animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality
of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health
required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study was about
cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans.

What facility did you work at? What organization did you work for?

-L.