Why the tiger almost killed Roy.

Animals, like people, have personality. Some animals have a strong
personality, some have a weak personality. A weak personality is
characteristic of some species or breeds so most individuals in that
species/breed have a weak personality and the same holds for a strong
personality. To give an example of some breeds I´m somewhat familiar
with, if you raise a Kuvasz or a Pitbull in a violent environment,
they become vicious and dangerous animals. A Pointer or a Labrador
being raised in that same environment usually becomes excessively shy
and fear everything. The same has been observed among people. People
who are raised in a violent home usually become either violent
themselves (according to the FBI, all highly dangerous criminals were
raised in such environments) or develop serious personality disorders
(borderline, sociophobic, avoidant). Felines in general have a very
strong personality so they will react violently to any violence
committed against them - they will not curl up and passively take
beating like a Pointer would. People who deal with animals must
realize this and *never* use violence in their training or in any
other circumstance. Violence and inflicting pain is almost exclusive
of our species. I have yet to see a mother or father in nature inflict
pain upon their young or treat their young with violence. I see
there´s a post by a behavioral biologist and I´d really appreciate her
comments on this.

As for having these "wild" animals as pets, I see nothing wrong with
that providing they live in a healthy environment, with mentally
healthy people (people who do not hurt them under any circumstance)
and obviously, with a good space for the animal´s mental and physical
health. Also, having these animals as pets is an advantage for their
species since they will be under a much lesser risk of extinction. The
most successful higher species (in terms of numbers) are exactly those
that we have domesticated for whatever reason. I myself would love to
have some tigers providing I had the necessary resources to have them.
I admire those excentric millionaires that have private zoos (not
those that keep animals in cages but those that really work in their
individual habitats). I don´t think any animal could wish for a better
life.

In article ,
ospam enlightened us with...

Carrying by the nape of the neck is what mama cats do and maybe this is what
the big cat thought he was doing.

You know, you could be right. No one's mentioned that yet. I'm sure if the
tiger had meant to kill, Horn would be dead now.


The tiger missed his carotid artery by mere centimeters. The only reason
Roy is alive is because they got the cat off him.

"Handlers sprayed the tiger with a fire extinguisher to force him to
release Roy, who underwent about two hours of surgery."

Cats, including tigers and lions, do not bite the neck to sever the
artery - they do so to strangle their prey. Had Montecore not been
forced off, he would have strangled Roy.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu
thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

In article ,
ospam enlightened us with...

Carrying by the nape of the neck is what mama cats do and maybe this is what
the big cat thought he was doing.

You know, you could be right. No one's mentioned that yet. I'm sure if the
tiger had meant to kill, Horn would be dead now.


The tiger missed his carotid artery by mere centimeters. The only reason
Roy is alive is because they got the cat off him.

"Handlers sprayed the tiger with a fire extinguisher to force him to
release Roy, who underwent about two hours of surgery."

Cats, including tigers and lions, do not bite the neck to sever the
artery - they do so to strangle their prey. Had Montecore not been
forced off, he would have strangled Roy.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu
thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

In ,
Alison being of bellicose mind
posted:
snip
The drugs we use are tested on animals but mainly by guinea pigs
and rats , not by chimps I hope. ( I still feel for the rats and
GPs, though ) Humans are also used to study drugs after they've
been tested on animals . I'm taking part in at a study in the Uk
*Are new treatments for rheumatoid arthritis harmful to long-term
health* . I flipping well hope not. LOL
Alison

Regarding being a human lab rat, I too am on a controversial DMARD
for a rare type of rheumatoid condition. An "off-label" use of ARAVA.
Yes, ANYTIME you suppress your immune system response you do run a
varying degree of risk that dormant (or in-check) cancer cells may
now become active and spread. So there is always a danger but ... is
the danger worth the risk so that you can conduct a decent quality of
life. In my case, absolutely yes. I have blood draws every month to
make sure my liver is handling the ARAVA metabolites well. BUT, it
is the doctors who have prescribed this drug and not required the
monthly blood panels who have had patients die on this stuff.
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

In ,
Alison being of bellicose mind
posted:
snip
The drugs we use are tested on animals but mainly by guinea pigs
and rats , not by chimps I hope. ( I still feel for the rats and
GPs, though ) Humans are also used to study drugs after they've
been tested on animals . I'm taking part in at a study in the Uk
*Are new treatments for rheumatoid arthritis harmful to long-term
health* . I flipping well hope not. LOL
Alison

Regarding being a human lab rat, I too am on a controversial DMARD
for a rare type of rheumatoid condition. An "off-label" use of ARAVA.
Yes, ANYTIME you suppress your immune system response you do run a
varying degree of risk that dormant (or in-check) cancer cells may
now become active and spread. So there is always a danger but ... is
the danger worth the risk so that you can conduct a decent quality of
life. In my case, absolutely yes. I have blood draws every month to
make sure my liver is handling the ARAVA metabolites well. BUT, it
is the doctors who have prescribed this drug and not required the
monthly blood panels who have had patients die on this stuff.
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

In news Barb 1 being of bellicose mind posted:
I tend to feel sorry for these large, beautiful cats. They are
exploited for big bucks. I heard that the animal was "tapped"
several times on the nose. Maybe it hurt.

Carrying by the nape of the neck is what mama cats do and maybe
this is what the big cat thought he was doing.

Was it a female tiger? Maybe she was crampin'. You know how
dangerous that can be for a man! ;-)
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

In news Barb 1 being of bellicose mind posted:
I tend to feel sorry for these large, beautiful cats. They are
exploited for big bucks. I heard that the animal was "tapped"
several times on the nose. Maybe it hurt.

Carrying by the nape of the neck is what mama cats do and maybe
this is what the big cat thought he was doing.

Was it a female tiger? Maybe she was crampin'. You know how
dangerous that can be for a man! ;-)
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

In ,
kaeli being of bellicose mind
posted:
In article t,
1chip- lid enlightened us with...
I would venture to guess that the animal rights/welfare groups
have thought this out further than you have. While these cats
are captive, where would you release them to and to what end?
There is some conscientiousness raising that occurs with
performing wild animals, both pro and con. Controversy is a
money maker and Las Vegas is about making money. Winners did not
build Las Vegas. --

~~Philip

As one who dunks his cats in water to discipline them, I don't
expect you to understand that what is important is the quality of
life for the animal.

Kaeli... I don't mind telling you to stuff it. You know from poop.

Captive animals who cannot be released into the wild should be in
sanctuaries with lots of room and the best of care. They should
not be in hotels and circuses and little cages. They should not be
forced to perform for human amusement.
Want conservation? Teach people that animals deserve care and
respect, not that they exist to amuse us.

Because you are an extremist and a religious nut, I don't expect you
to get the big picture. Beyond the entertainment draw of Ziegfield
and Roy's show, many people come away with a new respect for great
cats and their treatment. My wife and I attended one show about 10
yrs ago. I was fascinated but the show also instilled in me a higher
respect for the dedication, technique, and care one HAS to take with
these large animals and the care one has to provide for their well
being. Animal protection groups have given regular inspections to
Ziegfield and Roy shows for a long time. But this does not preclude
the cat from having a "bad day."
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

In ,
kaeli being of bellicose mind
posted:
In article t,
1chip- lid enlightened us with...
I would venture to guess that the animal rights/welfare groups
have thought this out further than you have. While these cats
are captive, where would you release them to and to what end?
There is some conscientiousness raising that occurs with
performing wild animals, both pro and con. Controversy is a
money maker and Las Vegas is about making money. Winners did not
build Las Vegas. --

~~Philip

As one who dunks his cats in water to discipline them, I don't
expect you to understand that what is important is the quality of
life for the animal.

Kaeli... I don't mind telling you to stuff it. You know from poop.

Captive animals who cannot be released into the wild should be in
sanctuaries with lots of room and the best of care. They should
not be in hotels and circuses and little cages. They should not be
forced to perform for human amusement.
Want conservation? Teach people that animals deserve care and
respect, not that they exist to amuse us.

Because you are an extremist and a religious nut, I don't expect you
to get the big picture. Beyond the entertainment draw of Ziegfield
and Roy's show, many people come away with a new respect for great
cats and their treatment. My wife and I attended one show about 10
yrs ago. I was fascinated but the show also instilled in me a higher
respect for the dedication, technique, and care one HAS to take with
these large animals and the care one has to provide for their well
being. Animal protection groups have given regular inspections to
Ziegfield and Roy shows for a long time. But this does not preclude
the cat from having a "bad day."
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"

In ,
Yngver being of bellicose mind posted:
"Alison" wrote:

I think in this case, that a show that could encourage people
to keep wild pets should spend the profits on the wild animals
that are kept as pets , sadly a law (brought in much too late )
to stop people keeping tigers as pets could mean the death of
many as they have no where to go .

As an editorial I read today stated, the fact that an experienced
tiger handler like Roy Horn could still be unexpectedly injured by
a tiger ought to go a long way towards discouraging people from
keeping tigers as pets, rather than encouraging them. And
unfortunately you are right that most of these pet tigers have
nowhere to go--since they are generally mixed breed, inbred, or in
other ways not genetically suitable for a breeding program, zoos
do not usually want them.

Indeed. Just yesterday I read on my ISP's news wire of a
Bengal/Siberian "*******" tiger in Ohio that roughed up it's owner
who was keeping the cat .... in an apartment! Good grief! Our
1500 sq/ft house is barely big enough for our 12 pound housecat!
--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"