Why the tiger almost killed Roy.

Kaeli, I don´t dispute most of what you said. I agree wholeheartedly
that certain people are not fit to have pets as certain people are not
fit to have kids. We could have legislators pass a law stating that
one cannot have kids or pets without first getting a license. But what
would be the requirements for the license to be granted? Besides,
wouldn´t this conflict with freedom?

Just as a side note, in Brazil you can only have a wild animal as pet
if you get a license. The license in granted by our environmental
agency only to those who can afford the animal and an adequate
environment. The area where the animal will be kept must be ready when
the license is requested and they will come and check to see if it is
adequate for the species. The license is granted for one year at a
time and every year someone from the agency goes to where the animal
is kept to check if everything is in accordance with the law. If he
finds anything wrong with the animal or evironment, the person loses
the license and the animal is taken away to a zoo. Fortunately, very
few people in this country can afford these licenses and only rarely
the animal needs to be taken away.

Who decides what "hurt" is? Is it hurting them to train them with
physical methods, as some people do?

In my opinion, it is. And I go a little beyond. I am against training
animals. I have never trained any of my dogs or cats. I know I´ll get
flamed for this but this is how I feel.

What if there were even more? What happens to them
then? Do we then have to kill them like we do our unwanted cats and
dogs?

A license would take care of that providing the requirements to grant
this license were strict and the license itself temporary.

So you advocate domesticating the tiger? Do you know how long
domestication takes? It isn't a couple generations. Should people be
able to keep them as pets before they are domesticated? Would you like
your children to run around the neighborhood where such was allowed? A
500 pound tiger who gets loose can do a lot more damage than a ****ed-
off Rottweiler.

This is where I do not agree with you. What is domestication?
According to the dictionary, it is adaptation to intimate association
with human beings. If you get a tiger cub from a very young age and
raise it in your house, it is domesticated. There´s a woman in the USA
who lives in a farm and takes in all the tigers that people don´t want
anymore. They are all lose. I saw pictures of her house and there are
tigers sleeping on the couch, on her bed, in the living room floor,
just about everywhere. When I last visited her site she lived in close
association with 20 tigers. I know animals well enough to know that
they do not attack out of thin air unless they are emotionally
disturbed and they only become emotionally disturbed through physical
or mental abuse. I´d bet this woman knows this too and trusts her
tigers wholeheartedly.

I have yet to see a mother or father in nature inflict
pain upon their young or treat their young with violence.

Male tigers will kill their own cubs. That's kinda violent.

Where have you read this? I have read something slightly different.
Male felines will kill the offspring of other males for the female to
go in heat soon and have his own offspring. How does he know if the
offspring are his? Felines are territorial and the territory of the
male overlaps with the territory of all the females in his area. If a
new male disputes the territory and wins, he will know that none of
the offspring are his and will go hunting and killing them all.

I have yet to see a mother or father in nature inflict
pain upon their young or treat their young with violence.

Male tigers will kill their own cubs. That's kinda violent.

Where have you read this? I have read something slightly different.
Male felines will kill the offspring of other males for the female to
go in heat soon and have his own offspring. How does he know if the
offspring are his? Felines are territorial and the territory of the
male overlaps with the territory of all the females in his area. If a
new male disputes the territory and wins, he will know that none of
the offspring are his and will go hunting and killing them all.

But you're looking at it from your perspective, thinking what a housecat's life
should be or something. A wild animal is altogether different and I doubt if
we can understand what it is to be wild. I would bet the animals would choose
their native environment to live in as wild animals despite the inherent
dangers of that life over living a safe life in some little
park/zoo/cage/circus forever.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

I agree if you compare a cage or zoo to the wild. Higher animals like
comfort and an easy life just as much as we do (hey, we are animals
too). We have a lot of jungle here and it is common to see "wild"
higher animals living in close association with humans who live in the
jungle. They like to sleep out of the rain, they like being cuddled
with, and they love being fed. In every case, these animals are there
in their own free will since they are all loose.

BTW, we do not call "wild" animals wild animals. We call them exotic
animals if they are from abroad and native animals if they are from
our fauna. The word "wild" in Portuguese is more associated with
viciousness than with undomesticated. Wild is more like savage.

But you're looking at it from your perspective, thinking what a housecat's life
should be or something. A wild animal is altogether different and I doubt if
we can understand what it is to be wild. I would bet the animals would choose
their native environment to live in as wild animals despite the inherent
dangers of that life over living a safe life in some little
park/zoo/cage/circus forever.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

I agree if you compare a cage or zoo to the wild. Higher animals like
comfort and an easy life just as much as we do (hey, we are animals
too). We have a lot of jungle here and it is common to see "wild"
higher animals living in close association with humans who live in the
jungle. They like to sleep out of the rain, they like being cuddled
with, and they love being fed. In every case, these animals are there
in their own free will since they are all loose.

BTW, we do not call "wild" animals wild animals. We call them exotic
animals if they are from abroad and native animals if they are from
our fauna. The word "wild" in Portuguese is more associated with
viciousness than with undomesticated. Wild is more like savage.

"Liz" wrote in message
om...

BTW, we do not call "wild" animals wild animals. We call them exotic
animals if they are from abroad and native animals if they are from
our fauna. The word "wild" in Portuguese is more associated with
viciousness than with undomesticated. Wild is more like savage.

Hi ,
Guinea pigs and tigers are exotics but there a hell of a difference
between them . LOL

Alison

"Liz" wrote in message
om...

BTW, we do not call "wild" animals wild animals. We call them exotic
animals if they are from abroad and native animals if they are from
our fauna. The word "wild" in Portuguese is more associated with
viciousness than with undomesticated. Wild is more like savage.

Hi ,
Guinea pigs and tigers are exotics but there a hell of a difference
between them . LOL

Alison

Karen OAWAY wrote:

Why would a zoo habitat be any different than the tiger habitat where the
tigers live now? I'd guess in fact their current habitat is somewhat better
than some zoos can afford to provide.

He doesn't have to do tricks at least.

What sort of tricks did Montecore do in the S&R show? I ask because although I
have not personally seen the show, friends who have say the tigers basically
just walk around and sit or lie down on command. Not really what most people
think of as circus tricks. Maybe someone else who has seen the show can
clarify.


I heard a report that there are more
wild cats in captivity now than in the wild. Sad.

That is certainly true of white tigers, because they can't survive long in the
wild.

Karen OAWAY wrote:

Why would a zoo habitat be any different than the tiger habitat where the
tigers live now? I'd guess in fact their current habitat is somewhat better
than some zoos can afford to provide.

He doesn't have to do tricks at least.

What sort of tricks did Montecore do in the S&R show? I ask because although I
have not personally seen the show, friends who have say the tigers basically
just walk around and sit or lie down on command. Not really what most people
think of as circus tricks. Maybe someone else who has seen the show can
clarify.


I heard a report that there are more
wild cats in captivity now than in the wild. Sad.

That is certainly true of white tigers, because they can't survive long in the
wild.

In om,
Liz being of bellicose mind posted:
Who decides what "hurt" is? Is it hurting them to train them with
physical methods, as some people do?

In my opinion, it is. And I go a little beyond. I am against
training animals. I have never trained any of my dogs or cats. I
know I´ll get flamed for this but this is how I feel.

Oh Liz. You are foolishly naive to be against "training." No good
dog is an untrained dog. No cat is a good cat that is allowed to
eliminate at will and destroy furniture in your house. Point in
fact, Rusty is trained to use the people toilet and does so from time
to time. God only knows what goes thru his furry little head that
makes him choose the commode over the litter box but ... that's what
he does. He is also trained to fetch balls of paper. He is also
trained to NOT go outside even if the door is wide open. He won't do
it unless I am outside and beckon him to come out. May I politely
suggest that you "check" your feelings and not act on them. Your
feelings on this matter is really a cover for laziness. It takes
effort to do a good training job.

--

~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"