Do animals go to heaven?

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...


James wrote:

Charlie Wilkes


Do animals go to heaven?


Over here in rec.pets.cats.anecdotes, we like to console each other
with comforting stories about a Rainbow Bridge that our pets cross
over after death, where they wait for us to die so they can join us in
heaven.

Is it true, or are we just kidding ourselves?

Charlie


Charlie,

Looks like it is kidding time. The Bible shows us that unreasoning
animals were made to die, not live forever. 2 Pe 2:12,

So? SFAIK, ALL living creatures die, "reasoning" or not.
(And it's plain to see you've never known any cats
intimately, if you consider them "unreasoning" - a lot of
them are clever enough to outwit a good many humans!)

There are other religions than "fundamentalist"
Christianity, and other "holy" books, you know. FYI, even
EDUCATED biblical scholars can't agree on the meaning of
much of its contents, what makes YOU such an authority?

This newsgroup (rec.pets.cats.anecdotes) has quite a few
non-Christian members - Jews and Moslems and Budhists and
Sikhs and Wiccans (and atheists, of course). One reason we
all get along (most of the time) is that we don't try to
force our personal religious beliefs on the others here. I
suggest you follow that example. Religion is a very
PERSONAL thing - no one has the right to impose his/her
belief system on anyone else. (Particularly when you
weren't invited to do so!)

And I am one of the christian members, who happens to believ that, as god
wrote it, not us, who are we to tell anyone what we think god meant by such
and such a verse, taken out of context to prove a point? and wouldn't god
explain it to you, or do you need a whole committee of self-righteous
scholars to tell you what they think it means??

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...


Dore wrote:

Charlie Wilkes

Do animals go to heaven?


Of course animals go to heaven, as well as hell. Regardless of what the
mainstream believes, animals DO have souls and their souls are eternal
as
well. Another truth that most Christians are unaware of, is that
sometimes
animals are the incarnation of HUMAN souls too, depending upon their
choices
in previous lives.

I'm reminded of a delightful Rudyard Kipling story! (Was it
"Rikki-Tikki-Tavi"?)




Oh good! I'm not the only crazy person out there who still reads kipling!!!

What souls are you talking about. The body is the soul itself, not the
spirit.
Anyway, not all men go to Heaven. They make their choice to go to Hell.

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...


RAP wrote:

No Animals don't go to heaven because they don't have spirit.. The spirit
is what makes men and animals differ.

I beg to differ! Most of the animals I've known have far finer souls than
the likes of YOU!

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...

So? SFAIK, ALL living creatures die, "reasoning" or not. (And it's plain
to see you've never known any cats intimately, if you consider them
"unreasoning" - a lot of them are clever enough to outwit a good many
humans!)


A gentle reminder folks, the thread is being crossposted, and we know what
that leads to (g)
a bit of trolling, methinks. How about ignoring the trolls & avoiding
crossposting?

Cheers, helen s

"meee" wrote in message
...




"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...


Dore wrote:

Charlie Wilkes

Do animals go to heaven?


Of course animals go to heaven, as well as hell. Regardless of what
the
mainstream believes, animals DO have souls and their souls are eternal
as
well. Another truth that most Christians are unaware of, is that
sometimes
animals are the incarnation of HUMAN souls too, depending upon their
choices
in previous lives.

I'm reminded of a delightful Rudyard Kipling story! (Was it
"Rikki-Tikki-Tavi"?)




Oh good! I'm not the only crazy person out there who still reads
Kipling!!!

Count me in too. Many people today Kipple. He's unfashionable today, so some
are closet Kipplers!

"wafflycat" waffles*$*A**T*v21net$*££*D*O*T*co*D£$£*O*T*uk wrote in
message ...

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...

So? SFAIK, ALL living creatures die, "reasoning" or not. (And it's plain
to see you've never known any cats intimately, if you consider them
"unreasoning" - a lot of them are clever enough to outwit a good many
humans!)


A gentle reminder folks, the thread is being crossposted, and we know what
that leads to (g)
a bit of trolling, methinks. How about ignoring the trolls & avoiding
crossposting?

Cheers, helen s

I was thinking that myself, Helen. That's why I, like you, only sent my
initial response to RPCA, and deleted the other newsgroups. That only leads
to trouble.

===Of course they do. "Heaven" according to the Bible is
the SKY.
The Russians sent some dogs, the US sent some chimpanzees
and even rats, etc. -- L.

meee wrote:
I am afraid I will have to disagree with you here James...in your approach
more so than what you have said. I am apractising Christian, and prefer to
err on the side of grace rather than judgement. Mainly from the point of
view that we 'interpret' the scriptures too much to support our own
opinions. Our point of view isn't necessarily the right one; I am not saying
the scripture you quoted were incorrect; but as centuries of
mis-interpreting scripture to make christianity a male dominated religion
has driven many women away, i would be hesitant to 'pass judgement' on a
subject that is mentioned in so many different ways in the bible. for
example; everyone know of the scripture that speaks of heaven "...the lion
will lie down with the lamb, etc etc". And to Charlie; a scripture I read
was Ecclesiastes chapter 3 verses18-21 if you can find a bible, I suggest
you read the whole thin, it may shed a bit of light: but the main one that
got to me was verse 20 and 21 from that section: " All go to the same place;
all come from the dust and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of
man rises upwards and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"
These seems to me to be saying 'who are we to know or decide...it's just as
likely either way...' ie. it's known to God, ask him. And as for where you
will go after death, I am not going to push any more onto you unless you
ask, and will not annoy this group any further with my beliefs. My apology
for offending anyone, or off topic posting, however I felt obliged to
present another christian point of view from james'...no offense to james,
however not everyone sees God the same way.

The problem with this thought is that you're creating the notion that
animals have a spirit/soul which they do not and Scripture never says
they do. This goes back to Creation, God creates all the plants and
animals by His Word. He created mankind specially and different from
the animals in that we have a soul.

Thus, without a soul to speak of, animals are no more eternal, no more
capable of heaven or hell, than plants and rocks and the like.

Hope that clarifies.

"Yoj" wrote in message
news
"Bobcat" wrote in message
.. .

"James" wrote in message
...
Charlie Wilkes

Do animals go to heaven?

Over here in rec.pets.cats.anecdotes, we like to console each other
with comforting stories about a Rainbow Bridge that our pets cross
over after death, where they wait for us to die so they can join us in
heaven.

Is it true, or are we just kidding ourselves?

Charlie

Charlie,

Looks like it is kidding time. The Bible shows us that unreasoning
animals were made to die, not live forever. 2 Pe 2:12,

"But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are
like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and
destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish." (NIV)

Also notice Ps 49:20,

"A man who has riches without understanding is like the beasts that
perish." (NIV)

But did you know that the Bible tells us that not all good people will
go to Heaven? For example, how could Jesus' statement be true here, if
ALL the good ones went to Heaven? Mt 5:5,

"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth." (NIV)

More on what the Bible has to say on this subject if you are
interested.
Sincerely, James

This is not intended to offend people who follow the Christian faith - I
was
baptized into it as a young adult but since then have also drawn from
other
faiths to form my own beliefs. As for the Bible, I don't view it as a
direct
pipeline to the word of God. The Bible has been written - and rewritten -
by
humans, each one of them influenced by personal biases and prevailing
attitudes of the day. It's been translated into countless versions, over
and
over, down the years, each time at the mercy of the skill - or its lack -
of
the scholars and translators. Finally, the Bible is taken up by
modern-day
Christians in its present form and quoted as, well, gospel. Every word.
Every concept. Paraded out to make points, or win arguments. Who truly
knows
if animals are "unreasoning"? Or if there is a heaven - or indeed a
rainbow
bridge? Some matters are completely beyond our temporal comprehension,
and
will always be so. Shakespeare's Hamlet nailed it: "There are more things
in
heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Your view of the Bible coincides with mine, and I'm a regular churchgoer.
If you want to quote the Bible, what about the part that says the lion
shall
lie down with the lamb? If there are lions and lambs, there have to be
dogs
and cats. Besides, if there are no animals in heaven, I ain't going! ;-)
Joy

Amen to that! And we're not alone in our opinion, according to these
quotations.

"Heaven will not ever Heaven be unless my cats are there to welcome me." --
Epitaph in pet cemetery

"If I have any beliefs about immortality it is that dogs I know will go to
heaven, and very very few people." - James Thurber

"Many years ago when an adored dog died, a great friend, a bishop, said to
me, 'You must always remember that, as far as the Bible is concerned, God
only threw the humans out of Paradise.'" - Unknown

"Many birds and beasts are ... as fit to go to Heaven as many human beings -
people who talk of their seats there with as much confidence as if they had
booked them at a box-office." - English essayist, poet and editor Leigh Hunt

"There is an Indian legend which says when a human dies there is a bridge
they must cross to enter into heaven. At the head of that bridge waits every
animal that human encountered during their lifetime. The animals, based upon
what they know of this person, decide which humans may cross the bridge....
and which are turned away." - Unknown

- The Rainbow Bridge, perhaps? And finally, Mark Twain. He calls our cats
and other creatures - not mankind - "the higher animals".

"Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only
animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal
that loves his neighbour as himself and cuts his throat if his theology
isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest
best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher
animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out
in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste." - from "The
Lowest Animal", an essay from "Mark Twain on the Damned Human Race"

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
There are other religions than "fundamentalist"
Christianity, and other "holy" books, you know. FYI, even
EDUCATED biblical scholars can't agree on the meaning of
much of its contents, what makes YOU such an authority?

This newsgroup (rec.pets.cats.anecdotes) has quite a few
non-Christian members - Jews and Moslems and Budhists and
Sikhs and Wiccans (and atheists, of course). One reason we
all get along (most of the time) is that we don't try to
force our personal religious beliefs on the others here. I
suggest you follow that example. Religion is a very
PERSONAL thing - no one has the right to impose his/her
belief system on anyone else. (Particularly when you
weren't invited to do so!)

I would gather that you have no belief in the reality of absolute
truth?

I know there are people who do indeed *impose* their beliefs on you or
another. *However* confessing what one believes to be the truth in a
public forum is not imposing that belief on anyone else. If people
don't stick up for what they believe in then what's the point. If
people can't look at the Bible, for example, and say that this or that
is true then what's the point. Saying something publicly isn't always
imposing it upon someone else. If we're going to be that
hypersensitive about speech then we're getting dangerously close to
throwing the 1st Amendment out the window.

Just my humble opinion.