Question About Doing a Side-Job (OT)

I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to create
and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him to hand out
and possibly to tuck into people's mailboxes or whatever. Seems he thought
I'd do this for free. Uh, no. Paper and printer ink cost me money, not to
mention my time.

I made some notes about what he wants the sheet to say and told him I'd
create a proof sheet for him to look at. These are just 8-1/2 x 11 paper.
I discouraged him from using coloured paper (I don't know why, but that
annoys me - what say you?) but to go with colour and black ink on white
paper.

So, for say, 500 fliers (flyers?!) plus design time, revision time,
materials and printer ink what would you charge for a job like this? I am
not a print shop!

This guy is from Yemen and is just trying to get his new store off the
ground.
NOTE: The small market/convenience store has been there for 30 years. I've
been shopping there for 9 years. He bought it from the owner who retired.
They still sell fresh produce, have a breakfast and lunch buffet and make
deli sandwiches with cold cuts, cheese, etc. all day even when the hot
buffet is shut down. He recently started serving burgers and he's ordered a
pizza oven because he lived in NYC before he came here and he loves pizza!
He also plans to start selling gyros when he gets the other oven in. Lamb!
I love it!

So, what I should charge for helping him do his "marketing" ? I'm still
thinking 500 sheets of paper, black and colour ink, plus my time designing
and modifying the sheets as needed. No clue here!

Jill
--
I used to have a handle on life...but it broke off.

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to create
and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him to hand out
and possibly to tuck into people's mailboxes or whatever. Seems he
thought
I'd do this for free. Uh, no. Paper and printer ink cost me money, not
to
mention my time.

I made some notes about what he wants the sheet to say and told him I'd
create a proof sheet for him to look at. These are just 8-1/2 x 11 paper.
I discouraged him from using coloured paper (I don't know why, but that
annoys me - what say you?) but to go with colour and black ink on white
paper.

So, for say, 500 fliers (flyers?!) plus design time, revision time,
materials and printer ink what would you charge for a job like this? I am
not a print shop!

This guy is from Yemen and is just trying to get his new store off the
ground.
NOTE: The small market/convenience store has been there for 30 years.
I've
been shopping there for 9 years. He bought it from the owner who retired.
They still sell fresh produce, have a breakfast and lunch buffet and make
deli sandwiches with cold cuts, cheese, etc. all day even when the hot
buffet is shut down. He recently started serving burgers and he's ordered
a
pizza oven because he lived in NYC before he came here and he loves pizza!
He also plans to start selling gyros when he gets the other oven in.
Lamb!
I love it!

So, what I should charge for helping him do his "marketing" ? I'm still
thinking 500 sheets of paper, black and colour ink, plus my time designing
and modifying the sheets as needed. No clue here!

Jill
--
I used to have a handle on life...but it broke off.



Based on what I pay to get fliers printed (modifications are included in the
overall cost) I'd charge 1.25 per flier. If using glossy paper I'd charge
1.50. I currently pay .75 per page, but that's just for the printing. Of
course, you can design it and bring it to a printers to have printed then
charge less or charge the same and receive a higher profit minus the setup
fee the printers will charge.

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to create
and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him to hand out
and possibly to tuck into people's mailboxes or whatever. Seems he
thought
I'd do this for free. Uh, no. Paper and printer ink cost me money, not
to
mention my time.

For starters, make sure you get the money up front. A new business owner is
very likely to be cash poor, and the only bills that get paid are suppliers
he needs who might otherwise cut him off. And make sure he doesn't get the
bright idea you were also going to distribute them.

The notion that you might do this for free doesn't speak well for a good
business relationship.

Jo

Jo Firey wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to
create and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him
to hand out and possibly to tuck into people's mailboxes or
whatever. Seems he thought
I'd do this for free. Uh, no. Paper and printer ink cost me money,
not to
mention my time.

For starters, make sure you get the money up front. A new business
owner is very likely to be cash poor, and the only bills that get
paid are suppliers he needs who might otherwise cut him off. And
make sure he doesn't get the bright idea you were also going to
distribute them.

The notion that you might do this for free doesn't speak well for a
good business relationship.

Jo

At the risk of sounding like a racist by mentioning this (someone once
accused me of that), the guy is Arabic and is probably used to doing
business somewhat differently. He's actually a very nice guy; on my
birthday he gave me some free Reese's Peanut Butter Cups! LOL

You're right about cash poor. The large freezer case where he stores all
the frozen dinners, ice cream, etc. is broken yet again. He bought the
store "as is". I could have told him that thing breaks down every 6 weeks
or so; it's 30 years old! He keeps throwing good money after bad getting it
"fixed" while losing the stock that was stored in it and having to replace
it all. He's gonna have to buy a new freezer case - that ain't cheap.

And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the tips! I'm
going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price if he wants
me to do this. I'll get the cash up front. I'll have to buy the paper and
ink cartridges anyway; my printer is running low.

Jill

[[And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the tips! I'm
going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price if he
wants
me to do this. I'll get the cash up front. I'll have to buy the paper
and
ink cartridges anyway; my printer is running low.]]

Maybe after you get the mock-up flyer done, you could price at some local
print/copy shops what it'd cost to have copies of that flyer run off.

Then you'd be able to go to him and say, "If you had Kinko's print you 500
of these, it'd cost you ___, but I'll charge you ___ instead".

You might even bring in proof of what the cost of paper and ink would be
for you to take this task on, so he's not surprised when the cost of
materials is included in the price.

I'm sure you can both work out a reasonable amount based on the materials
you'll need to do this, the time you'll be spending, and the fact that the
guy probably is working with a tight budget.

Good luck! )

Donna, Captain, and Stanley

Gabey8 wrote:
[[And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the tips!
I'm going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price if
he wants
me to do this. I'll get the cash up front. I'll have to buy the
paper and
ink cartridges anyway; my printer is running low.]]

Maybe after you get the mock-up flyer done, you could price at some
local print/copy shops what it'd cost to have copies of that flyer
run off.

Then you'd be able to go to him and say, "If you had Kinko's print
you 500 of these, it'd cost you ___, but I'll charge you ___ instead".

You might even bring in proof of what the cost of paper and ink would
be for you to take this task on, so he's not surprised when the cost
of materials is included in the price.

I'm sure you can both work out a reasonable amount based on the
materials you'll need to do this, the time you'll be spending, and
the fact that the guy probably is working with a tight budget.

Good luck! )

Donna, Captain, and Stanley

Actually, I used to know a guy who owned a print shop. We took all our
business there when I worked for Prudential, but that was 20 years ago. If
he's still in business he'll probably remember me. It wouldn't cost that
much to have some photocopies made, even in colour. I'm thinking I'll do
the basic design for him then cost out the copies. I'm not trying to get
rich off this guy, just trying to help him out without putting myself out of
money. I'm already a regular customer; he doesn't get to benefit for free
because of that

Jill

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 07:26:00 -0500, "jmcquown"
wrote:

Gabey8 wrote:
[[And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the tips!
I'm going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price if
he wants
me to do this. I'll get the cash up front. I'll have to buy the
paper and
ink cartridges anyway; my printer is running low.]]

Maybe after you get the mock-up flyer done, you could price at some
local print/copy shops what it'd cost to have copies of that flyer
run off.

Then you'd be able to go to him and say, "If you had Kinko's print
you 500 of these, it'd cost you ___, but I'll charge you ___ instead".

You might even bring in proof of what the cost of paper and ink would
be for you to take this task on, so he's not surprised when the cost
of materials is included in the price.

I'm sure you can both work out a reasonable amount based on the
materials you'll need to do this, the time you'll be spending, and
the fact that the guy probably is working with a tight budget.

Good luck! )

Donna, Captain, and Stanley

Actually, I used to know a guy who owned a print shop. We took all our
business there when I worked for Prudential, but that was 20 years ago. If
he's still in business he'll probably remember me. It wouldn't cost that
much to have some photocopies made, even in colour. I'm thinking I'll do
the basic design for him then cost out the copies. I'm not trying to get
rich off this guy, just trying to help him out without putting myself out of
money. I'm already a regular customer; he doesn't get to benefit for free
because of that

Being a generous soul I'd offer to do it for the cost of the materials
plus about ten or fifteen bucks for my time depending on how long it
took. Just tell him it'll cost him X amount of dollars and see if he
wants to go ahead...


--
~Karen aka Kajikit
Crafts, cats, and chocolate - the three essentials of life
http://www.kajikitscorner.com

Karen AKA Kajikit wrote:
On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 07:26:00 -0500, "jmcquown"
wrote:

Gabey8 wrote:
[[And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the
tips!
I'm going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price
if
he wants
me to do this. I'll get the cash up front. I'll have to buy the
paper and
ink cartridges anyway; my printer is running low.]]

Maybe after you get the mock-up flyer done, you could price at some
local print/copy shops what it'd cost to have copies of that flyer
run off.

Then you'd be able to go to him and say, "If you had Kinko's print
you 500 of these, it'd cost you ___, but I'll charge you ___
instead".

You might even bring in proof of what the cost of paper and ink
would
be for you to take this task on, so he's not surprised when the cost
of materials is included in the price.

I'm sure you can both work out a reasonable amount based on the
materials you'll need to do this, the time you'll be spending, and
the fact that the guy probably is working with a tight budget.

Good luck! )

Donna, Captain, and Stanley

Actually, I used to know a guy who owned a print shop. We took all
our business there when I worked for Prudential, but that was 20
years ago. If he's still in business he'll probably remember me.
It wouldn't cost that much to have some photocopies made, even in
colour. I'm thinking I'll do the basic design for him then cost out
the copies. I'm not trying to get rich off this guy, just trying to
help him out without putting myself out of money. I'm already a
regular customer; he doesn't get to benefit for free because of that


Being a generous soul I'd offer to do it for the cost of the materials
plus about ten or fifteen bucks for my time depending on how long it
took. Just tell him it'll cost him X amount of dollars and see if he
wants to go ahead...

Actually, I'd love to do it for nothing. But I'm unemployed so I can't
afford to just give away materials or my time. I do enjoy doing stuff like
this, but I've already spent about 3 hours trying to design the flier. When
I was employed, if you calculated my salary down to an hourly wage I made
$25/hour (which is probably why I can't find a job... that along with my
age... they can and do hire college kids who still live at home but don't
have to earn a "living wage" due to either living with their parents or
having roommates). *HUGE SIGH* Of course, I wasn't a graphics designer...
I was doing QA and supporting proprietary software. My own fault that I
limited myself... who knew after 11 years they'd cut me loose?

I'm trying to help the guy out without it costing him *or* me much of
anything but still make a profit. I like to eat and so does Persia

Jill

On 2005-08-03, jmcquown penned:

Actually, I used to know a guy who owned a print shop. We took all
our business there when I worked for Prudential, but that was 20
years ago. If he's still in business he'll probably remember me.
It wouldn't cost that much to have some photocopies made, even in
colour. I'm thinking I'll do the basic design for him then cost out
the copies. I'm not trying to get rich off this guy, just trying to
help him out without putting myself out of money. I'm already a
regular customer; he doesn't get to benefit for free because of that



I agree you shouldn't gouge him, but there's nothing wrong with
getting the money you deserve. Design of flyers is definitely skilled
labor. And IMO, just because you can get a discount at a print shop
doesn't mean that you have any obligation to commensurately lower your
price for this shopkeeper.

Now, if you see it as doing a favor, that's a different matter; but I
would definitely make a point of mentally compartmentalizing favors
and jobs. And if it's a favor to him, make it very clear, otherwise
he might expect you to offer such "favor"able rates every time he
needs this kind of help.

On the other hand ... don't I recall you having job difficulties right
now? You could make a point of doing this at cost, and doing a
remarkable job, in exchange for his agreement to give you a quote you
can use on advertisements for your *own* flyer design business ...

Just a thought.

--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
Jo Firey wrote:
"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
I've been asked by the guy who bought the store down the street to
create and print up fliers (how the heck do you spell that?) for him
to hand out and possibly to tuck into people's mailboxes or
whatever. Seems he thought
I'd do this for free. Uh, no. Paper and printer ink cost me money,
not to
mention my time.

For starters, make sure you get the money up front. A new business
owner is very likely to be cash poor, and the only bills that get
paid are suppliers he needs who might otherwise cut him off. And
make sure he doesn't get the bright idea you were also going to
distribute them.

The notion that you might do this for free doesn't speak well for a
good business relationship.

Jo

At the risk of sounding like a racist by mentioning this (someone once
accused me of that), the guy is Arabic and is probably used to doing
business somewhat differently. He's actually a very nice guy; on my
birthday he gave me some free Reese's Peanut Butter Cups! LOL

You're right about cash poor. The large freezer case where he stores all
the frozen dinners, ice cream, etc. is broken yet again. He bought the
store "as is". I could have told him that thing breaks down every 6 weeks
or so; it's 30 years old! He keeps throwing good money after bad getting
it
"fixed" while losing the stock that was stored in it and having to replace
it all. He's gonna have to buy a new freezer case - that ain't cheap.

And hell no, I'm not distributing the fliers! Thanks for the tips! I'm
going to make a mock-up, print one copy and then discuss price if he wants
me to do this. I'll get the cash up front. I'll have to buy the paper
and
ink cartridges anyway; my printer is running low.

Jill


$25-50 for design depending on complexity - give him a clean copy and get
him photocopy however many he needs. Printing them with ink is time
consuming and 500 copies will put a strain on your printer. Photocopies are
much cheaper and the toner doesn't run

If he can't afford to pay you, you might want to think about barter.

Fi