How much space for a cat?

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:20:43 +0000, Jacqueline
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 22:56:58 +0000, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 20:34:26 +0000, Jacqueline
wrote:


When you take on the responsibility of homing any pet, one of the
important aspects is providing a proper environment for it. Cats need
space to roam, that is part of their nature.

It's part of every animal's 'nature' to roam, establish territory and

It is, and where the animal's "nature" does not endanger humans (as it
would with a free roaming pack animal like the dog) then we have to do
our level best to provide the animal with what it needs.

find food but we've moved on slightly from the laws of the jungle.
Cats have been domesticated and as such are provided with food,
shelter and territory. They adapt to their environment, just like we
adapt to the structures imposed on us.

Dogs can't be given that for human safety reasons.

Foxes are essentially canine but they have 'freedom to roam' and don't
attack humans.

Foxes are wild animals, in addition they are not generally pack
animals.

You only think it's normal for dogs to be walked around
on leads because that's your experience.

Hamsters are not native to the UK,

Nor are cats, they were introduced by the Romans.

Reintroduced.

but need proper housing.

In a cage?

Certainly not.

Why can't they be let out to roam? Because they might get
eaten or killed? Ah, but it's their nature to forage for food!

People, unless imprisoned for a crime, do have a large
degree of freedom.

We don't have freedom to do as we please. You can't wander onto
someone's land and claim it as your own. You can't go around killing
people and eating them just 'cos you're hungry. We impose rules for
the sake of our civilisation - and that includes allowing animals in
our care to have a healthy, fulfilled, good life.

Which cats get if they are treated correctly - as an indoor/outdoor
animal.

It's your opinion
that cats need access to fields and roads to have that, but many
millions with happy indoor cat owners would disagree,

Oh I know there are many ignorant people out there, and many who do
know that they are abusing their cats by keeping them in.

so you can't
claim your opinion is any more valid than theirs.

Yes I can. Because my opinions are based on the opinions of experts
like the RSPCA, Cats Protection, well respected experts in cats, our
leading zoos, and the experiences of millions of cat owners around the
world.

The cat is the same - regardless of the country it lives in. The
overwhelming majority of cats around the world get to lead proper
lives with time outside. Why should American cats be any different?

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:55:02 -0000, "Gee" wrote:


"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message

Foxes have never been known to harm a healthy cat.

Actually, not true.

Oh dear - Harpic Gee strikes again with another of her bare-faced
lies.

And if you don't believe me (which you will not, because
you always know everything the best, and instead will call me names he he,
which I will not see because I am about to killfile you again like I have in
other newsgroups,) check with RSPCA. They are the ones who confirmed to me
that they do get cats attacked by foxes in. So even though cats may not be
fox's first preference, if they are hungry enough they'll go for it.

Just so the dim witted cat hating Gee understands - there has never
been a documented case of a fox killing a healthy cat. Not one. Zero.
A number even smaller that the limited number of brain cells Harpic
Gee has (and that is really saying something.

Jus think about that Gee - not one single cat killed by a fox.

Gee

And do you know how I know that? For years I've fought with the anti
fox hunting movement, and we have seen just about every justification
you can imagine put forward by the murdering fatherless sons as an
excuse for the barbaric "sport". But not once have they even dared to
suggest that there has ever been a case of a fox harming a cat. They
did produce one sheet about 15 years ago that claimed three babies had
been attacked in proceeding years, but that evidence proved worthless.
They claim attacks of domestic dogs, humans and of course farm animals
- but cats? Not once.

--
Bob.

You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full
of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the
clue mating dance.

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:55:02 -0000, "Gee" wrote:


"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message

Foxes have never been known to harm a healthy cat.

Actually, not true.

Oh dear - Harpic Gee strikes again with another of her bare-faced
lies.

And if you don't believe me (which you will not, because
you always know everything the best, and instead will call me names he he,
which I will not see because I am about to killfile you again like I have in
other newsgroups,) check with RSPCA. They are the ones who confirmed to me
that they do get cats attacked by foxes in. So even though cats may not be
fox's first preference, if they are hungry enough they'll go for it.

Just so the dim witted cat hating Gee understands - there has never
been a documented case of a fox killing a healthy cat. Not one. Zero.
A number even smaller that the limited number of brain cells Harpic
Gee has (and that is really saying something.

Jus think about that Gee - not one single cat killed by a fox.

Gee

And do you know how I know that? For years I've fought with the anti
fox hunting movement, and we have seen just about every justification
you can imagine put forward by the murdering fatherless sons as an
excuse for the barbaric "sport". But not once have they even dared to
suggest that there has ever been a case of a fox harming a cat. They
did produce one sheet about 15 years ago that claimed three babies had
been attacked in proceeding years, but that evidence proved worthless.
They claim attacks of domestic dogs, humans and of course farm animals
- but cats? Not once.

--
Bob.

You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full
of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the
clue mating dance.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:06:37 +0000, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:20:43 +0000, Jacqueline
wrote:
[snip]

[hamsters]
but need proper housing.

In a cage?

Certainly not.

So you lambast hamster-keepers then? I bet you're a popular guy with
the kids.

We don't have freedom to do as we please. You can't wander onto
someone's land and claim it as your own. You can't go around killing
people and eating them just 'cos you're hungry. We impose rules for
the sake of our civilisation - and that includes allowing animals in
our care to have a healthy, fulfilled, good life.

Which cats get if they are treated correctly - as an indoor/outdoor
animal.

Which cats get if they are treated correctly in a safe indoor
environment.

It's your opinion
that cats need access to fields and roads to have that, but many
millions with happy indoor cat owners would disagree,

Oh I know there are many ignorant people out there, and many who do
know that they are abusing their cats by keeping them in.

I suggest you are the blinkered one.

so you can't
claim your opinion is any more valid than theirs.

Yes I can. Because my opinions are based on the opinions of experts
like the RSPCA, Cats Protection,

I'm a member of Cats Protection and we certainly home cats to indoor
environments and provide potential owners with how to care for them.
Take a look at this month's magazine, there's an article on just that.

well respected experts in cats, our
leading zoos, and the experiences of millions of cat owners around the
world.

The cat is the same - regardless of the country it lives in. The
overwhelming majority of cats around the world get to lead proper
lives with time outside. Why should American cats be any different?

Blinkered, blinkered. I used to think like you, I thought it was
'normal' for cats to be let out because that's what I was brought up
to believe. But the overwhelming evidence against such a preposterous
idea shifted my opinion. Incidentally, while I let my cats roam free -
in an area I considered safe as I'm quite a distance from a main road
- I had cats shot at, one kicked until it had a dislocated hip, they
constantly came in with fleas and mites, and lumps of fur missing from
fights with other animals. I don't think that's an acceptable or safe
environment.

You come across as being someone quite old with very static opinions,
so I guess if you've thought like you do for 40 years you're unlikely
to change now. Shame.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:06:37 +0000, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:20:43 +0000, Jacqueline
wrote:
[snip]

[hamsters]
but need proper housing.

In a cage?

Certainly not.

So you lambast hamster-keepers then? I bet you're a popular guy with
the kids.

We don't have freedom to do as we please. You can't wander onto
someone's land and claim it as your own. You can't go around killing
people and eating them just 'cos you're hungry. We impose rules for
the sake of our civilisation - and that includes allowing animals in
our care to have a healthy, fulfilled, good life.

Which cats get if they are treated correctly - as an indoor/outdoor
animal.

Which cats get if they are treated correctly in a safe indoor
environment.

It's your opinion
that cats need access to fields and roads to have that, but many
millions with happy indoor cat owners would disagree,

Oh I know there are many ignorant people out there, and many who do
know that they are abusing their cats by keeping them in.

I suggest you are the blinkered one.

so you can't
claim your opinion is any more valid than theirs.

Yes I can. Because my opinions are based on the opinions of experts
like the RSPCA, Cats Protection,

I'm a member of Cats Protection and we certainly home cats to indoor
environments and provide potential owners with how to care for them.
Take a look at this month's magazine, there's an article on just that.

well respected experts in cats, our
leading zoos, and the experiences of millions of cat owners around the
world.

The cat is the same - regardless of the country it lives in. The
overwhelming majority of cats around the world get to lead proper
lives with time outside. Why should American cats be any different?

Blinkered, blinkered. I used to think like you, I thought it was
'normal' for cats to be let out because that's what I was brought up
to believe. But the overwhelming evidence against such a preposterous
idea shifted my opinion. Incidentally, while I let my cats roam free -
in an area I considered safe as I'm quite a distance from a main road
- I had cats shot at, one kicked until it had a dislocated hip, they
constantly came in with fleas and mites, and lumps of fur missing from
fights with other animals. I don't think that's an acceptable or safe
environment.

You come across as being someone quite old with very static opinions,
so I guess if you've thought like you do for 40 years you're unlikely
to change now. Shame.

Ignore him. Killfile him. But don't cater to him by responding.

Based on my examination of his messages, I find that I cannot
distinguish between those from him and those that would be generated
by a badly written usnet troll robot program. That is, the sender of
those messages fail the Turing test for intelligence in that while it
can be distinguished from a normal human, it cannot be distinguished
from a machine.


T.E.D. - e-mail must contain "T.E.D." or my .sig in the body)

Ignore him. Killfile him. But don't cater to him by responding.

Based on my examination of his messages, I find that I cannot
distinguish between those from him and those that would be generated
by a badly written usnet troll robot program. That is, the sender of
those messages fail the Turing test for intelligence in that while it
can be distinguished from a normal human, it cannot be distinguished
from a machine.


T.E.D. - e-mail must contain "T.E.D." or my .sig in the body)

Yes, you are the top posting moron here.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message

This from a top-posting moron!

--
Bob.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why you appear bright until
we hear you talk.

Yes, you are the top posting moron here.

--
Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs!
www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek

Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com
"Bob Brenchley." wrote in message

This from a top-posting moron!

--
Bob.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why you appear bright until
we hear you talk.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:24:35 +0000, Jacqueline
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:06:37 +0000, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:20:43 +0000, Jacqueline
wrote:
[snip]

[hamsters]
but need proper housing.

In a cage?

Certainly not.

So you lambast hamster-keepers then? I bet you're a popular guy with
the kids.

Keeping hamsters in a cage is cruel. There are proper ways to keep
them, though most people do not have the necessary room.

We don't have freedom to do as we please. You can't wander onto
someone's land and claim it as your own. You can't go around killing
people and eating them just 'cos you're hungry. We impose rules for
the sake of our civilisation - and that includes allowing animals in
our care to have a healthy, fulfilled, good life.

Which cats get if they are treated correctly - as an indoor/outdoor
animal.

Which cats get if they are treated correctly in a safe indoor
environment.

What cats get if they are unlucky enough to have an abusive owner is
24/7 imprisonment indoors.

It's your opinion
that cats need access to fields and roads to have that, but many
millions with happy indoor cat owners would disagree,

Oh I know there are many ignorant people out there, and many who do
know that they are abusing their cats by keeping them in.

I suggest you are the blinkered one.

No, remember I'm one of the majority - a vast majority.

Even in the USA indoor only cats are in a minority - though there are
still far too many of them.

so you can't
claim your opinion is any more valid than theirs.

Yes I can. Because my opinions are based on the opinions of experts
like the RSPCA, Cats Protection,

I'm a member of Cats Protection and we certainly home cats to indoor
environments and provide potential owners with how to care for them.
Take a look at this month's magazine, there's an article on just that.

Cats Protection do not home healthy cats to indoor only homes - so
don't try that lie again.

well respected experts in cats, our
leading zoos, and the experiences of millions of cat owners around the
world.

The cat is the same - regardless of the country it lives in. The
overwhelming majority of cats around the world get to lead proper
lives with time outside. Why should American cats be any different?

Blinkered, blinkered. I used to think like you, I thought it was
'normal' for cats to be let out because that's what I was brought up
to believe. But the overwhelming evidence against such a preposterous
idea shifted my opinion. Incidentally, while I let my cats roam free -
in an area I considered safe as I'm quite a distance from a main road
- I had cats shot at, one kicked until it had a dislocated hip, they
constantly came in with fleas and mites, and lumps of fur missing from
fights with other animals. I don't think that's an acceptable or safe
environment.

You come across as being someone quite old with very static opinions,
so I guess if you've thought like you do for 40 years you're unlikely
to change now. Shame.

The FACT is that none of the UK's major shelters, nor most of the
smaller ones that for various reasons affiliate with the big boys,
will normally rehome a healthy cat to an indoor only environment. This
has been confirmed on numerous occasions by people who work at the
grass roots level - actually finding homes for cats.

--
Bob.

I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in
public.