Cat on a diet

Hi All,

My cat weighs 12.8 pounds and needs to loose 1 more pound. He started
off with 14 pounds and has done an amazing progress in the last couple
of months. I feed him 1/2 cup of Purina Cat Chow Dry Cat Food Indoor
Formula (1/2 * 390 = 195 kcal). But, in the last weeks he has stopped
loosing weight, although nothing has changed. Also, he has been
complaining a lot more - it is really hard to ignore him since he is a
very vocal siamese. So much that I felt guilty and gave him small
treats (little tiny bits of chicken) to him during the weekend. The
treats are so small that I wonder if this has any effect.

So, I wonder what can I do to make him loose this final pound without
driving me crazy. (why the last one is so hard?) I thought of
substituing the food by a lighter food or by wet canned food. I am not
sure what is best. Any suggestions?

Minerva

wrote:

Hi All,

My cat weighs 12.8 pounds and needs to loose 1 more pound. He started
off with 14 pounds and has done an amazing progress in the last couple
of months. I feed him 1/2 cup of Purina Cat Chow Dry Cat Food Indoor
Formula (1/2 * 390 = 195 kcal). But, in the last weeks he has stopped
loosing weight, although nothing has changed. Also, he has been
complaining a lot more - it is really hard to ignore him since he is a
very vocal siamese. So much that I felt guilty and gave him small
treats (little tiny bits of chicken) to him during the weekend. The
treats are so small that I wonder if this has any effect.

So, I wonder what can I do to make him loose this final pound without
driving me crazy. (why the last one is so hard?) I thought of
substituing the food by a lighter food or by wet canned food. I am not
sure what is best. Any suggestions?

Minerva


My chubby guy has been doing better on a canned "light" food than he did
on a dry "reducing" diet. In part, it seems to be because we've gone to a
2 meals a day routine instead of him having access to food all day long.
Also, something just seems a bit more satisfying about the canned stuff.
He's lost 2 pounds in slightly more than 2 months, 1.5 pounds to go.

5cats wrote:
My cat weighs 12.8 pounds and needs to loose 1 more pound. He started
off with 14 pounds and has done an amazing progress in the last couple
of months. I feed him 1/2 cup of Purina Cat Chow Dry Cat Food Indoor
Formula (1/2 * 390 = 195 kcal). But, in the last weeks he has stopped
loosing weight, although nothing has changed. Also, he has been
complaining a lot more - it is really hard to ignore him since he is a
very vocal siamese. So much that I felt guilty and gave him small
treats (little tiny bits of chicken) to him during the weekend. The
treats are so small that I wonder if this has any effect.

How many kilocalories are in the treats?
He cannot lose any weight because you have achieved metabolic balance

To lose weight, you would have to give less kilocalories.
Actually, I'm just half joking here. Are you sure he is not losing a
little bit?
If he lost an ounce in a week, you would still achieve weight loss,
but at a superb gentle amount. A pound over 3-4 months.
I'll give you a for instance, my 11 pound cat at 160-180 kcals will
maintain and
possibly gain. Lack of exercise complicates matters. You may want to
try some wet food. My cat also complains a lot.

You might want to talk to a vet. There are Rx weight reducing foods
which bulk up a bit with fiber. Wait and see if this is really a
plateau. Are you using an accurate scale?

You cat's metabolism may also be adjusting to the reduced kilocalories.
It's sometimes not as simple as it sounds. A good vet if you can find
one should help you out here.

My chubby guy has been doing better on a canned "light" food than he did
on a dry "reducing" diet. In part, it seems to be because we've gone to a
2 meals a day routine instead of him having access to food all day long.

What "light" food are you reducing your cat with?

Here's something Phil P. posted which is more accurate, after I bugged
him.
The DER refers to Daily Energy Requirements. [whatever that is, using
texts I get a wild range from 140 to 210 kcals depending on the author]
There are formulas or formulae - I got some from Science Diet but the
below should work. It's amazing but cats and people will adjust their
metabolism downwards and it makes dieting tricky. Think winter and
hibernation. It can also make it dangerous if not careful [actually
hyperlipidemia or the cat's liver can't handle fat that's loose now].
Think thyroid malfunction or hypothyroidism if too fast a dieting or
too little food in humans. Sometimes life is simple and sometime it
ain't.

"I'll give you two solutions to your problem and let you choose the one
that's more complicated:

Plan #1: Reduce your cat's daily caloric intake by 25% until her
weight
plateaus. When the reduced caloric intake becomes her maintenance
diet,
reduce her daily caloric intake by an additional 10% until she plateaus
again. Follow the same reduce/plateau/reduce/plateau pattern in 10%
increments until she reaches her target weight. Do not allow her to
lose
more than one pound every four weeks. If she begins losing more than 1#
a
month, increase her daily caloric intake by 5%-10% or as much as
necessary
to slow her weight loss to 1#/4 weeks. [one pound loss in 4 weeks]

Plan #2: This is a sliding target weight, stepwise plan: If she
weighs
11#, set her target weight at 9# and feed her the DER for a 9# cat.
When she
reaches the target weight of #9 she should plateau, then set a new
target
weight of 7# or whatever weight that will place her in BCS 5. Again,
don't
set target weights that will result in a loss of more than 1#/4 weeks.

I said no more than 1% a week or 1# every 4 weeks whichever is less.
Phil P."

Thanks, Phil, you're a gem

wrote:


My chubby guy has been doing better on a canned "light" food than he
did on a dry "reducing" diet. In part, it seems to be because we've
gone to a 2 meals a day routine instead of him having access to food
all day long.

What "light" food are you reducing your cat with?



Science Diet Light for dinner and about 1/4 can SD Senior Chicken for
breakfast.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Here's something Phil P. posted which is more accurate, after I bugged
him.
The DER refers to Daily Energy Requirements. [whatever that is, using
texts I get a wild range from 140 to 210 kcals depending on the author]
There are formulas or formulae - I got some from Science Diet but the
below should work. It's amazing but cats and people will adjust their
metabolism downwards and it makes dieting tricky. Think winter and
hibernation. It can also make it dangerous if not careful [actually
hyperlipidemia or the cat's liver can't handle fat that's loose now].
Think thyroid malfunction or hypothyroidism if too fast a dieting or
too little food in humans. Sometimes life is simple and sometime it
ain't.

"I'll give you two solutions to your problem and let you choose the one
that's more complicated:

Plan #1: Reduce your cat's daily caloric intake by 25% until her
weight
plateaus. When the reduced caloric intake becomes her maintenance
diet,
reduce her daily caloric intake by an additional 10% until she plateaus
again. Follow the same reduce/plateau/reduce/plateau pattern in 10%
increments until she reaches her target weight. Do not allow her to
lose
more than one pound every four weeks. If she begins losing more than 1#
a
month, increase her daily caloric intake by 5%-10% or as much as
necessary
to slow her weight loss to 1#/4 weeks. [one pound loss in 4 weeks]

Plan #2: This is a sliding target weight, stepwise plan: If she
weighs
11#, set her target weight at 9# and feed her the DER for a 9# cat.
When she
reaches the target weight of #9 she should plateau, then set a new
target
weight of 7# or whatever weight that will place her in BCS 5. Again,
don't
set target weights that will result in a loss of more than 1#/4 weeks.

I said no more than 1% a week or 1# every 4 weeks whichever is less.
Phil P."

Thanks, Phil, you're a gem


I forgot to add, don't reduce the cat's total daily caloric intake by more
than 25% of the cat's DER at one time. Most commercial diets are designed
to contain a small/moderate excess of each nutrient for safety. If you
restrict caloric intake by more than 25% of the cat's DER you might exceed
the safety margin which could create nutrient deficiencies.

Phil

I did an extensive search in this discussion group and found some very
useful messages from Phil. In fact, I based the first reduction on the
dry food on his formulas. But, this text on the plateau issue, I had
not seen. Thank you for pasting it.

I do believe that the winter might have some to do with it since he has
been looking for warm places most frequently. But, maybe the fact that
he is getting closer to his ideal weight is also having an effect. It
may be easier for a 20lbs cat to loose 1 lb than for an 11 lb cat. For
a lighter cat 1 lb it represents a higher percentage of his body
weight, right? This is only a hypothesis, of course.

I am not using a very accurate scale. I am using a regular digital
Tanita. I have tested it with bags of litter weighing similarly to my
cat and it seems accurate, but I would not bet my life on it. I
actually weigh him in pounds and kilos and do as many measures as he
allows me. � My intention is not to track every ounce. I am
interested to see a decrease over time in a rate that is not too
dangerous. So, I keep a chart (using excel) of his progress. He
actually lost 2 pounds since August. This is not bad, uh. It basically
means he is loosing 0.5 lb per month. It way below the recommended!

Anyway, yesterday we changed him to wet food. I am thinking of giving
half of the larger can (~75-95kcal) and a little bit of the dry food in
the morning (~70Kcal ). He seemed more satisfied . Funny, because in
terms of calories this meant he is eating less calories. He is also in
a better mood because wet food used to be a special food for him. It is
too soon to draw any conclusions, but I am optimistic.

Concerning the treats, they basically consists of 1-3 tiny bits of
chicken (the size of the little balls of the dry food) Saturday morning
and one table spoon of milk that he adores (although I know that is not
exactly good for him!) once or twice a week. I keep wondering how much
is this compromising his diet. Anyway, I will stop giving him these for
now.

Thank you for the suggestions!

Minerva

wrote in message
oups.com...

Concerning the treats, they basically consists of 1-3 tiny bits of
chicken (the size of the little balls of the dry food) Saturday morning
and one table spoon of milk that he adores (although I know that is not
exactly good for him!) once or twice a week. I keep wondering how much
is this compromising his diet. Anyway, I will stop giving him these for
now.

There's nothing wrong with giving him treats as long as they don't comprise
more than 10% of his daily caloric intake. Just be sure to include treat
calories in his daily caloric allowance.

Good luck,

Phil.

wrote:
I did an extensive search in this discussion group and found some very
useful messages from Phil. In fact, I based the first reduction on the
dry food on his formulas. But, this text on the plateau issue, I had
not seen. Thank you for pasting it.

I do believe that the winter might have some to do with it since he has
been looking for warm places most frequently. But, maybe the fact that
he is getting closer to his ideal weight is also having an effect. It
may be easier for a 20lbs cat to loose 1 lb than for an 11 lb cat. For
a lighter cat 1 lb it represents a higher percentage of his body
weight, right? This is only a hypothesis, of course.

Don't know. Could work either way depending on metabolism. The trick is
to lose the fat and not the muscle. Another reason to go slowly. Muscle
burns up fat and keep metabolism faster so not good to lose too much
muscle. Some can be lost. If it's winter, then likely not exercising as
much so easier to go into low metabolic rate. It's tricky stuff.

I am not using a very accurate scale. I am using a regular digital
Tanita. I have tested it with bags of litter weighing similarly to my
cat and it seems accurate, but I would not bet my life on it. I
actually weigh him in pounds and kilos and do as many measures as he
allows me. � My intention is not to track every ounce. I am
interested to see a decrease over time in a rate that is not too
dangerous. So, I keep a chart (using excel) of his progress. He
actually lost 2 pounds since August. This is not bad, uh. It basically
means he is loosing 0.5 lb per month. It way below the recommended!

Tanita makes durable and accurate in their range. I have found a postal
scale that sells for $20 to $40. It's called UltraShip 35 by My Weigh
[not DigiWeigh which is not so good]. This scale has some outstanding
features.

1. It can be calibrated. This is a sign of a good scale. And one review
said the scale is accurate over its entire range. By calibration, I
mean you put a special standardized 10 kilogram weight on the scale and
press special buttons that tell the scale to realize that a genuine 10
kilogram weight better say 10 kilograms on the scale. These weights are
special, and probably around $20 themselves but a professional scale
store has these and might calibrate the scale as a favor. Generally
scales do not need calibration but with temperature and altitude, they
can. A scale at 3000 feet will weigh a little less

2. It can weigh up to 35 pounds at either 0.2 ounces or 5 grams. There
are versions that go to 55 pounds and 75 pounds but they weigh only to
10 grams or 0.5 ounces. That's not bad if you need a shipping scale to
75 pounds. Can all be used for postal letters since goes to 0.1 ounce
accuracy for first 2 pounds.

3. Detachable faceplate so can put a large tray on the scale for the
cat and hope it does not tip over or whatever, not that it would matter
too much. Also has a fairly long HOLD button so with the controls a
couple of feet away, when the cat is on the scale, hit the HOLD button
and record the weighing.

How accurate is 0.2 pounds or 5 grams? In pounds only, that's .0125
pounds which is mighty accurate. Most bathroom scales are 10 to 20
times less accurate. 5 grams is around .011 pounds. That's a little
more than 1/100th of a pound for accuracy if using the kilogram scale
on the scale.

But, I have not purchased this scale yet. But it's the best specs so
far for price and accuracy that I have found. The same company makes a
kitchen scale that weighs 1 gram to 15.4 pounds or 7 kgs. But there is
no detachable faceplate and the HOLD button works for a very short
time, seconds. But this scale, the 7001DX is tempting. 1 gram /
453.59237 grams [makes one pound exactly] is a little more than .002 of
a pound. Now that's what I call accurate.

In fact, that's 100 times more accurate than most bathroom scales.

Bathroom scales usually do 0.2 pounds accuracy.
This is 0.002 pounds accuracy. 100 times better.

This company also makes 2 shipping scales, well, foot square platform,
that weigh to 150 pounds/300 pounds at .05/0.1 pounds or 20/50 grams,
with a long corded remote display. That would seem best for me and the
cat but it's getting near the price of an animal scale, from $75 to
over $100. Called the HD-150 or HD-300 by MyWeigh.com. With this scale
I could weigh myself with or without holding the cat and be accurate to
0.05 pounds or 20 grams which is better than any bathroom scale and
equal or better than many medical scales for precision and consistency
and the scale can be attached to a computer. Not sure it is Excel
compatible but it works with UPS and USPS.

I used a Conair scale, with 0.1 pound increments, and tried to gauge it
consistency with a concrete brick, not too bad, but still a tad
inconsistent. I returned the scale. Not bad, had 10 memories, but why
is it so difficult to get a scale that is consistent and accurate?
Probably why it's so hard to find good medical or vet advice.

Easiest was to hold the cat and weigh her with me on the scale. Getting
her onto a little scale by itself is awkward. Maybe a biggish platform
or shipping scale might be not so difficult.

A scale is needed. I'll try to get one of these scales and report back
later if it is as good as I seem to think it might be.

Tanita makes good baby scales or little animal scales but they run over
$100. Not as accurate as the scale I mentioned but more accurate
possibly because the Tanita scale probably has professional dampening
mechanisms for when the cat is moving on the scale. So give a little,
take a little. What good is .002 pounds accuracy if the cat is moving?
Not much I would guess.

Anyway, yesterday we changed him to wet food. I am thinking of giving
half of the larger can (~75-95kcal) and a little bit of the dry food in
the morning (~70Kcal ). He seemed more satisfied . Funny, because in
terms of calories this meant he is eating less calories. He is also in
a better mood because wet food used to be a special food for him. It is
too soon to draw any conclusions, but I am optimistic.

There are scientific studies that the types of calories can matter. One
showed that fluffy white sugary stuff want straight to make fat on the
tummy of people than other types of calories. My cat seems more
satisfied on wet food too. She cannot get enough of the dry kibble,
just eats and eats. If I put out wet food, she does not bug me as much.
Wet food might seem more like a mousey or something. I try to put out
good quality wet food with low phosphorus, 0.80% dry matter basis.
Now and then I put out Wysong which has a pure turkey or chicken, very
low phosphorus, but has no added vitamins or anything, so need to be
careful that the dry kibble provides the extra nutrition. This Wysong
is not going to meet any vet standards for food. But it's easier than
cooking a piece of chicken. I found Science Diet which has good specs
and some Fancy Feast, 3 or so, that have good specs. But the other 55
Fancy Feasts you can keep, too high in phosphorus which is indicated in
renal failure.

It's not easy getting the cat down in weight. I need to get more
strict.

Concerning the treats, they basically consists of 1-3 tiny bits of
chicken (the size of the little balls of the dry food) Saturday morning
and one table spoon of milk that he adores (although I know that is not
exactly good for him!) once or twice a week. I keep wondering how much
is this compromising his diet. Anyway, I will stop giving him these for
now.

Thank you for the suggestions!

Minerva

You're welcome.

wrote:

Easiest was to hold the cat and weigh her with me on the scale. Getting
her onto a little scale by itself is awkward. Maybe a biggish platform
or shipping scale might be not so difficult.

I've mentioned this before, but my tactic for weighing the cats is to use
a shipping scale and weigh the cat inside the cat carrier. First, zero
the scale with the empty carrier, then get the weight of cat inside
carrier. My cats are used to the drill and settle down inside the carrier
within a few seconds. And then they get a treat afterwards. I got some
cheap 30 lb. cap. digital scale off ebay. I needed something fast and
didn't have time to research what's best, but this one turned out OK,
it's very consistant at least. It seems to me that for weight loss
there's no issue with absolute accuracy, just so long as the the scale is
consistant. The 2 cats with health issues get weighed at least once a
week and the others once a month.