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cat is a bully



 
 
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  #71  
Old June 11th 05, 01:07 AM
Mary
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"Catnipped" wrote

I have never understood how someone could think they will stop violent
behavior by demonstrating violent behavior. I was never spanked in my

life
and I certainly didn't grow up to be a serial killer or a "*******"!


I was never spanked either.

And
neither did my children who are now practicing this child-rearing method

on
their own children (who are all on the honor roll, participating in

sports,
and have never been in any kind of trouble).

"Discipline" does *NOT* mean violent behavior - it means providing a
structured, controlled and safe environment for those we love. You can't
provide discipline if your own behavior and emotions are undisciplined.

Being in charge does not mean being a bully! First and foremost it means
being in charge of your own behavior and emotions and exampling to the

young
(either human or animal) how to control their behavior even in anger.

Violence is *NEVER* a solution to problems, but it's the first resort of

the
unintelligent or those who don't have other resources to bring to bear in
solving a problem. Again, those we are trying to teach *always* learn by
example and *never* by the words coming out of our mouths (that are
contradicted by the actions we perform).


I did swat Gnarly when she bit and drew blood, but it was mostly
because I did not know what else to do. After one or two times
(and this was essentially tapping her on the side of her face, not
a real slap, just enough to annoy her) she stopped biting me. But
of course I did a lot of things wrong with her. I was in my teens when
I got her.


  #72  
Old June 11th 05, 01:09 AM
KellyH
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"Mary" wrote
This is the same stupid bitch who would not take her kitten to the vet
when
he had a broken tail. Her "pure bred" kitten that she intended to breed.
Then lied about it.
It has to be a full moon.



It is? Crap. I can't keep up with who said what anymore. I just answered
another question from her in a different thread. Hope the grandbabies don't
get spanked

People keep saying that if you don't hit or spank, the child (or cat, in
this case) isn't disciplined. Not true. There are many ways to discipline
without hitting. Go watch Supernanny, she actually has a lot of good
discipline techniques.

--
-Kelly


  #73  
Old June 11th 05, 01:09 AM
Catnipped
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"bigbadbarry" wrote in message
ups.com...


Catnipped wrote:
I have never understood how someone could think they will stop violent
behavior by demonstrating violent behavior. I was never spanked in my

life
and I certainly didn't grow up to be a serial killer or a "*******"!

And
neither did my children who are now practicing this child-rearing method

on
their own children (who are all on the honor roll, participating in

sports,
and have never been in any kind of trouble).


This is a commendable, and rare oddity. Sounds highly whitewashed, but
I have to take your word for it.


It's probably as hard for someone who has been reared in a violent home to
believe that there are homes where violence is never used, but they do
exist.

"Discipline" does *NOT* mean violent behavior - it means providing a
structured, controlled and safe environment for those we love. You

can't
provide discipline if your own behavior and emotions are undisciplined.


Why do you think correction means malice? Real correction stems from
love.
I don't wanna get into all this, but a child who never mis-behaves
well, they should not be spanked. A child who does, and is not spanked?
That is an unhappy child.


I don't think that correction means malice, I think correction means just
that - correcting bad behavior by exampling restraint and rewarding good
behavior. Children who are not spanked are not unhappy - children who are
not disciplined are unhappy, but as I've explained spanking and discipline
are not only two different things, they are polar opposites.

Being in charge does not mean being a bully! First and foremost it

means
being in charge of your own behavior and emotions and exampling to the

young
(either human or animal) how to control their behavior even in anger.


This is a stretch and an assumption on your part; for I fully believe
what I'm talking about; and I'm not out of control.


No, not an assumption, simple fact. You can believe in what you're talking
about 100 percent and still be 100 percent wrong. If you are giving vent to
your anger, then you *are* out of control, and there is not other reason for
hitting someone than giving vent to your anger.

Violence is *NEVER* a solution to problems, but it's the first resort of

the
unintelligent or those who don't have other resources to bring to bear

in
solving a problem.


Would this include the way Phil has been acting in humping all my
posts?


This has nothing to do with Phil, I was responding to your suggestion to
commit violence on a being weaker than you are - that's bullying.

Again, those we are trying to teach *always* learn by
example and *never* by the words coming out of our mouths (that are
contradicted by the actions we perform).


I know, you didn't read my posts, truth is, it is over your head
anyway, you wouldn't understand it, it's a whole other field of
practice. You probably count to 3 before even taking a moderate action
towards correction.


No, I don't have to count to three. Being reared the way I was (and the way
I reared my children) means that my anger never gets out of control to the
point that I have to take time to gain control.

Hugs,

CatNipped


I love ya babe, but this is bull****

bull****!


OK, think of it like this. When a child (or animal) misbehaves and "causes"
you to lose your temper and resort to violence, then *they* are controlling
*you*. My children could do whatever they chose to "get a rise" out of me,
but they *never* "got a rise" out of me. *I* chose how I would react, and
what I chose was to address their behavior, and change it. When you react
with anger and perpetrate violence (and how in the world can anyone state
that hitting is *not* voilent??!), you are allowing womeone else to control
you instead of being in control of a situation.

Really Barry, when you hit someone, at the *best* you are simply teaching
them to be afraid of you (and thereby try harder not to get *caught*) - and
at worse you are teaching them to *be* violent. Does the world really need
more violence????! When you teach someone to behave well because they are
getting rewarded for behaving well you are setting up this changes their
fellings about behaving well and not just to behave well out of fear.

If you're interested, here is some commentary I wrote on parenting that
explaines the "Three Cs" in more depth:

"C1 - Control, and this means control of yourself first! No screaming or
hitting in reaction to what your child does, that gives HIM control over YOU
(HE does act A, YOU have reaction B - he controls you!). It's very easy to
lose your temper and threaten or spank the child, but this only strengthens
his knowledge that he can control your actions with his. You'll usually calm
down later and regret grounding him or hitting him and then rescind the
punishment or apologize, again this puts him in control - he got his way
with no, or amended consequences.

C2 - Consequences, both good and bad as in, "If you choose to finish your
homework you'll get an extra fifteen minutes of TV tonight, if you choose to
not finish your homework you will be given two extra chores to do". ALWAYS
put it in that manner - that he is the one who is choosing his fate, not you
or anyone else. Remember to keep both the rewards and punishments
reasonable. Don't make rewards or punishments you can't keep. Don't promise
a new bike if you can't afford one, and don't threaten to "ground him for
the rest of his life" when you know that's not conceivable. Keep all things
"child-sized" - an ice cream cone is precious to a three-year-old, and a
fifteen minute time-out works better than a week's grounding, and it still
gets the point across. For older children and teenagers larger rewards or
punishments are necessary. AND CONCENTRATE ON THE REWARDS! It's long been
known that positive reinforcement is much more effective (although it may
take longer) than negative reinforcement. Always tell him the results of
EVERYTHING he may choose to do, before hand. [Side note, this was especially
hard to do with my very creative son - who would have thought to say to the
boy, before hand, "If you choose to shave the cat, you'll be given a 15
minute "time-out"??!??] Always let the child know that HE has the choice of
what will happen to him as a consequence of the way he acts. This teaches
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. It lets the child know that whatever consequences
fall upon him are the result of HIS actions (this is mostly true in
society). Always let him know that it is HIS choice and HIS actions that
receive the reward or punishment, not you arbitrarily deciding his fate or
"just being mean." Put the responsibility on HIS back, and let him learn it
well. When he whines about a punishment, calmly say, "I'm sorry, but this is
what YOU CHOSE to happen." When he is thrilled with rewards, say to him,
"You earned this yourself with YOUR CHOICE of good behavior." Remember, the
more praise he gets for his good behavior, the harder he will strive to be
good - it's human nature to want to be praised and we will work VERY hard to
achieve it.

C3 - Consistency, consistency, consistency - CUBED!! Once you set the
consequences, carry through, IMMEDIATELY, EVERY TIME, with both the rewards
and the punishment (the immediate part is especially essential, because
children have a different concept of time than we do). After you have this
working for a bit and the child is behaving like a little angel for weeks,
you might be tempted to let him get by with a little misbehavior just this
once - BIG MISTAKE! This will scrap all the work you've done and you'll have
to start all over again. Children will always test the limits. My
pediatrician put it like this "Parents are safety rails for a child. If you
were on an unfamiliar balcony, wouldn't you reach out and shake the railings
to see if they were sturdy and dependable before leaning your weight on
them?" When he learns that there is a consequence to his every action, EVERY
SINGLE TIME, then it will stop being a performance and become a part of his
mentality. Think about it in the adult world. If a many-times-convicted
thief has not stolen for three years then steals again, do we say, "Well,
you've been so good for three years, we'll just let you go on this one." NO
WAY, he gets convicted and sent to jail yet again!
All of this seems very simple, condensed down this way, but there was a lot
more we had to learn along with the Three Cs. The program lasted two years,
going to three-hour "classes", four times a week. It was very hard to change
MY behavior (it is so hard to look at your prized antique vase shattered on
the floor and not scream just a little!) I was also working against
everything I'd learned from "the way I was raised," - early learning goes
very deep. I think four years of high school training might be enough for
most teens (if they were taught well when they were younger).

[Another side note... The Three Cs works just as well on another adult as it
does on a child. It's human nature to want and work for good strokes and to
avoid what hurts. Try it on your spouse or boss! ; ] "


  #74  
Old June 11th 05, 01:10 AM
Mary
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"bigbadbarry" wrote in message
ups.com...


Catnipped wrote:
Violence is *NEVER* a solution to problems, but it's the first resort of

the
unintelligent or those who don't have other resources to bring to bear

in
solving a problem.


Would this include the way Phil has been acting in humping all my
posts?


This does not even follow, Barry. Phil is upset at what you are
recommending, and so am I. He genuinely cares about cats and
has seen the results of abuse. Phil has forgotten more than you
have time to learn about cats. You are dead wrong here, and
you ought to be person enough to admit it.


Again, those we are trying to teach *always* learn by
example and *never* by the words coming out of our mouths (that are
contradicted by the actions we perform).


I know, you didn't read my posts, truth is, it is over your head
anyway, you wouldn't understand it, it's a whole other field of
practice. You probably count to 3 before even taking a moderate action
towards correction.

Hugs,

CatNipped


I love ya babe, but this is bull****

bull****!


She's right. And you had better understand that not a gd thing you
have written is "over her head." Or mine. You are wrong.


  #75  
Old June 11th 05, 01:12 AM
Catnipped
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"bigbadbarry" wrote in message
oups.com...


Catnipped wrote:

I am willing to bet that the households you volunteered to mention are
predominately ran by women. Tell me Im wrong. This is not a bad thing,
but with women and children; it's a little different when a female is
calling the shots. Quite different.


Then you would lose that bet. Men aren't intrinsically violent, they're
taught to be violent. My father was not violent, my husband is not violent,
and my son is not violent. They are all gentle, but *STRONG* (it takes
*MUCH* more strength to control yourself than it does to beat up someone
weaker than you are).



  #76  
Old June 11th 05, 01:15 AM
KellyH
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"bigbadbarry" wrote
You may have had an abusive father.

You have not heard me suggest one ounce of abuse, but it's easier for
your little mind to just throw it all, rather than consider any of it.


It wasn't abuse in the "CPS would have taken me away" sense, but it's just
what you "that child needs an ass-whuppin" types advocate. I spilled
something at dinner, I got spanked and sent away from the table. That type
of thing. I wasn't bleeding or bruised, but it's enough to make a child
scared.

--
-Kelly


  #77  
Old June 11th 05, 01:15 AM
Mary
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Default


"KellyH" wrote in message
...
"bigbadbarry" wrote
Why do you think correction means malice? Real correction stems from
love.


Correction does not equal violence. There are plenty of ways to

discipline
and correct a child or animal that do not involve hitting.

I don't wanna get into all this, but a child who never mis-behaves
well, they should not be spanked. A child who does, and is not spanked?
That is an unhappy child.


You know what? I was spanked, and it didn't teach me a damn thing except

to
be afraid of my father. Sure, I wouldn't do whatever I was doing wrong
again, but not because "oh, now I know that's wrong" but because I didn't
want to get hit again. I am NOT going to do the same thing to my

children.

I was never spanked, and I did lots of stuff I should not have. My father
shamed me and my mother guilted me. That was all it took.



I'm done with you Barry. You have really shown your true colors in this
thread.
Mary, do you really want to defend this POS?


No, Kelly, I don't. I do like Barry but here he is wrong. And this nonsense
about a difference between households run by men and women is really
scary. Marriage is a partnership. Some work better than others, but any
time any single person is dominating, what we have is something the ****
out of Deliverance--the dark ages--the Bad Old Days. It is ignorant
and dangerous. It is a dangerous product of ignorance. And a man who has
to raise his hand to anything weaker than himself is not a man at all.


  #78  
Old June 11th 05, 01:17 AM
Mary
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Default


"bigbadbarry" wrote in message
ups.com...


KellyH wrote:
I'm done with you Barry. You have really shown your true colors in this
thread.
Mary, do you really want to defend this POS?

--
-Kelly


No-one suggested you did; excuse me for challenging your belief system.

You may have had an abusive father.

You have not heard me suggest one ounce of abuse, but it's easier for
your little mind to just throw it all, rather than consider any of it.

Later


No, Barry, she is reading the same posts I am reading. You're talking about
controlling via dominance and aggression against smaller, weaker creatures,
and even
suggesting that this is the was "real men" "run" their families. It's
****ing nuts.


  #79  
Old June 11th 05, 01:18 AM
Mary
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"Catnipped" wrote

It's probably as hard for someone who has been reared in a violent home to
believe that there are homes where violence is never used, but they do
exist.


Once again, you get right to the heart of the issue at hand.


  #80  
Old June 11th 05, 01:20 AM
Catnipped
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"Mary" wrote in message
news:1118448462.e11b696deaf18c2888e1d3ef7c0ef91e@t eranews...

"Catnipped" wrote

I have never understood how someone could think they will stop violent
behavior by demonstrating violent behavior. I was never spanked in my

life
and I certainly didn't grow up to be a serial killer or a "*******"!


I was never spanked either.

And
neither did my children who are now practicing this child-rearing method

on
their own children (who are all on the honor roll, participating in

sports,
and have never been in any kind of trouble).

"Discipline" does *NOT* mean violent behavior - it means providing a
structured, controlled and safe environment for those we love. You

can't
provide discipline if your own behavior and emotions are undisciplined.

Being in charge does not mean being a bully! First and foremost it

means
being in charge of your own behavior and emotions and exampling to the

young
(either human or animal) how to control their behavior even in anger.

Violence is *NEVER* a solution to problems, but it's the first resort of

the
unintelligent or those who don't have other resources to bring to bear

in
solving a problem. Again, those we are trying to teach *always* learn

by
example and *never* by the words coming out of our mouths (that are
contradicted by the actions we perform).


I did swat Gnarly when she bit and drew blood, but it was mostly
because I did not know what else to do. After one or two times
(and this was essentially tapping her on the side of her face, not
a real slap, just enough to annoy her) she stopped biting me. But
of course I did a lot of things wrong with her. I was in my teens when
I got her.


There isn't a person alive who has not made a mistake (I've made more than
my fair share - youth = stupidity). The important thing is if you admit
you've made a mistake and learn from it rather than trying to defend what
you've done and continuing to do it so you don't have to admit you were
wrong. It's the difference between being a grown up or a perpetual child.
Children make excuses and try to rationalize bad behavior - adults admit
they're fallible, correct the behavior, and learn what *not* to do in the
future.

Hugs,

CatNipped


 




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