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#11
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Hi, just jumping on the "get a second opinion" bandwagon. Make sure you
take all the records from the first vet to the second one, so they can review the series of events. You may want to try a/d cat food. I know you can get it from the vet's, not sure if it's available at pet supply stores. It's really hard to say if the intestinal problems and the ear issues are related. I don't know if the thickened intestinal walls can develop suddenly or not. It's possible (just guessing, not sure) that she could have had the IBD, and the stress of the ear problems and boarding set it off. If you are anywhere near Tufts University in MA, I highly reccommend them. -- -Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com "Zaida" wrote in message ... I need an opinion please ... 2nd, 3rd, it doesn't matter. My mind is open to all possibilities and explanations. I have a 12-year old Tonkinese whom I had boarded 2 weeks ago when my family and I went out of town. I left him with a reputable vet in my area on a Friday and picked him up the next Monday. During this time, I also left instructions to go ahead with bloodwork because I had also wanted to go ahead with his dental cleaning at the same time. But time was short, so the vet simply ordered labwork and a future dental appointment was made instead. While I was gone though, the vet left me several messages saying she found, upon exam, a right ear infection that required ear flushing. I gave my consent. I was told the flushing was done Monday morning (I picked up Ming, my Siamese, Monday afternoon). When we got home, I took him out of the carrier. To my shock, he was falling all over the place. He had a staggering gait and at the very least, couldn't leap in and out of the sofa. No head tilt; no rocking eye movement though, but on his right eye, the inner lid was showing half-way consistently; very glassy and drowsy appearance. I put him on the sofa, but he was not comfortable. Intermittently, he would let out a howl (very loud; uncharacteristic of this cat). Then he vomitted at one point. For the rest of the evening, he would try to jump out of the sofa, fall, get up and stagger, find a hiding place, and howl. To say the least, he would not eat. After vomitting, he slept peacefully the rest of the night on the sofa (not his usual sleeping place by the way). He had a medication to be taken once a day: tresaderm, which I applied to his right ear the following morning (Tuesday). When I placed that in his right ear, he shook his head and then vomitted right after. I called the vet who told me to withhold the tresaderm and she replaced it with PGN which I picked up from her office. I continued to monitor his appetite. No signs, but no more vomitting episodes for the rest of the day and the cat slept all throughout. Come Wednesday morning, I applied the PGN. Again he vomitted. So I then called the vet. I also told her that Ming still hasn't eaten to say the least in that 48-hour period. She ordered him back. But during the car ride, he started foaming at the mouth. Vet gave him fluids SQ, but was concerned about the foaming. It did appear that some was also coming out of his nose and made a notation that it could be respiratory. We agreed at that point to bring him twice a day starting Thursday for fluids SQ. A new antibiotic was given (again) to replace PGN ... Baytril. Thursday morning, cat still hasn't eaten. I popped a tab of Baytril into his mouth. 15 minutes later, he vomitted again. I called the vet again. On the car ride, Ming was foaming in the mouth again. This time, she hospitalized Ming. I also picked up for her at the drugstore, a couple of prescriptions for Ming -- Carafate and Metoclopramide. She also said she was going to give him a pre-surg medication to stop the foaming. She ordered ultrasound and x-ray to rule out anything respiratory. Friday, sonogram results revealed a thickened stomach; so thick that food can't pass through, according to the vet. Vet also mentioned ulcers. I visited Ming (needless to say, broke my heart to see how lethargic he was). He preferred sleeping inside his potty box. The doctor placed an extra aluminum tray for him to sleep in. Throughout the weekend, Ming was on fluids IV. Besides the 2 drugs I mentioned, all of the previous antibiotics were stopped; but Flagyl was used instead. Sunday night, the vet told me that she has started Ming on Prednisone. My kids visited Ming Saturday. He still preferred sleeping inside the potty. I took Ming home (5/3) Monday afternoon. His vet explained to me about his gait and what she reiterated would go away in time; that the sight is more disturbing to us people than it is to Ming. I asked her what in her opinion did Ming really have and she said inflammatory bowel. I raised the possibility of the ulcers found during ultrasound being due from stress secondary to an equilibrium from the ear flushing; she believed the two were unrelated. She explained that ulcers don't develop overnight; they take time. We discussed the possibility of him having eaten a plant to have caused the ulcers. My cat is an indoor cat. He did enjoy playing with (and chewing on) tall long grasses that are sometimes included with the flowers I buy and take home. Other than that, there is no plant in this house -- I really don't have any indoors; they're fake because I'm the type who forgets to water my plants :-( $1500+ later, my cat remains unappetent, still nauseated and looking emaciated. I also signed a release statement indicating that my cat is not 100% better. At home, after the car ride from the vet, the first thing Ming did was stagger to his potty box where he promptly threw up. I called the vet to tell her this. She upped his Prednisone to twice a day. Everyday that I've had him back, I keep offering him food and water. The vet also discussed with me that it's ok to give him anything he wants (with the exception of milk) just to get him starting to eat. He would poke his head into his bowl, paw at his food, go through the motions of licking and picking up, but he wouldn't bite. It's almost as if he's scared to eat! I told the doctor this who is now afraid that it's now psychological. I won't hesitate to tell anyone that my husband has been flipping over these costs. He had just had a car accident last week Monday night as well. He came out unscathed from the accident (a 4-car pile up), but his car has been totalled. I'm a wreck between the money worries and Ming. I'm at a point where my cat is not on the threshold of death, yet does not have the will to eat. I have discussed all these concerns with the vet. I don't want to be in the position where I have to allow him to die because I can't afford it. I do have a $350 balance that the vet and I agreed to pay off next month. The vet has also said in terms that if surgery was going to be needed for Ming, she could justify euthanasia for my sake because of the surgical cost (of over $1K), but until then she really would hate not to try all means possible, medication-wise. Costs aside, I am now at a point where I'm wondering how much of Ming's predicament is primary or secondary. By admission, Ming's vet did say that she seemed to have opened a "pandora's box" when she flushed his ears. I asked if his ear drum has any tear and she said she couldn't find any, though some dirt could've attached to tear away a "pin-dot" size during the flushing. Ming is still unstable when he walks and does fall when he jumps up and out of the bed or sofa. The vet has reiterated that Ming's gastric problem and ear problem are unrelated. Yesterday after Ming came out of his potty, he sat down beside me and proceeded to clean himself (just like the good 'ol days). I was thrilled to see that. But as soon as he tilted his head up, he vomitted again. Can anyone at this point tell me that his vomitting episodes are not related to an equilibrium problem? Sonogram, according to the vet, did show ulcerations. And ulcerations "don't appear overnight". All my husband knows and calls as he sees it is this: we took a healthy, happy cat to the vet on a Friday a week-and-a-half ago. Today, my cat is so ill that the question of euthanasia is what we have been talking about most lately. I have cried and cried; and worried some more ... over everything; coming to a point where I'm hoping (praying to God) that my care for this pet shouldn't be put into test over affordability of treatment costs. But there are priorities that I cannot hugely discount. Above all, I have to give weight to my husband's concern to maintain our lives within our means. We are by far, the most humane people possible, but we are also not rich people. I just need to know if my cat will ever eat. I've withheld Prenisone the whole day yesterday as soon as Ming walked away from me to hide underneath the bed after he vomitted. He seems to "want" to eat. He looks eager to eat. But that's all he does: poke his nose into the bowl, lick, bite, but does not take the food in to eat. Today I have an appointment with the vet. She isn't pleased I withheld the prednisone, but I'm telling 'ya ... this cat's frame of mind is all I care for at this point. He hasn't thrown up yet anyway after he last vomitted yesterday morning. And yes, he did take a bite out of a small piece of bacon last night; just the size of my pinky nail, but he kept it down and hasn't vomitted since. This without prednisone. I'm so afraid to pop a pill into his mouth and be afraid to eat anything anymore, not after he took a bite out of the bacon. But that's it. And that was yesterday morning. I've had him back since Monday and it's now Thursday. This cat, being a Siamese, with his own idiosyncrasies, minus the prednisone for 24 hours now ... how much of his condition is truly IBD? I apologize for being distraught ... but I thank this board though so much in advance. ~ Zaida~ |
#12
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Hi there, Minerva. And my many thanks to everyone who wrote to post and e-mail me privately.
I've given Ming chicken broth, baby food, bland, boiled, anything that I know would be acceptably palatable to his appetite. And yes, I've withheld ALL medications, as a matter of fact, last Tuesday. Why? Because this cat has had too much. He hid from me after he vomitted Tuesday. I didn't want him to feel that I'm going to punish him by pushing anything down his throat. I'm afraid at this point, To boot, he's Siamese and he's extremely sensitive to all stimulus. I will tell you though that I sent him yesterday for fluids SQ because he needs it (it's the only thing keeping him alive) ... and I've advocated forced feeding, but this vet has adamantly said NO to forced feeding because seemingly, Ming's inability/reluctance is psychogenic in nature now. In Nursing, I'd call that "ineffective coping" ... so I did what I know best. But I also got reprimanded BIG TIME for holding off his Prednisone, a steroid to suppress bowel swelling and at the same time, stimulate appetite. She said no amount of instinct will get him to eat or drink. So far, she's right on that point because this cat will NOT drink either. She said Ming will die without Prednisone. Yes, Minerva, IBD doesn't fly with me 100% either. But I don't have any pathology report to go by. This vet relayed all sonogram "results" by phone and actually "ulcerationS" (plural form) was the term that was used to say that those were also discovered upon ultrasound. But all before that, a thickend stomach lining was the first finding that stood out. Hence, the diagnosis of "IBD". If I really wanted a full-term finding, the vet wanted me to consent to an endoscopy ... but another $1K? Yet, here I am 80% convinced that the gastric upset is triggered by nausea secondary to an equilibrium problem due to the ear flushing procedure. I mean, I can go on and on, but that is my take on the technical side. BUT there's no way for me to prove that. The vet sees this situation as entirely 2 different problems. Either that or she has to because to date, I have paid $1,250 for the gastric problems. I won't discount the fact that ulcers don't develop overnight; even the vet concedes that. Ming has been regurgitating after meals for quite sometime now; but I was never alarmed because he never did so with all foods. The vet thinks he has a GERD condition and ulcers have been developing over time, but that the ear flushing exacerbated his gastric condition and came to a full head. I'll post an update as soon as I get a private confer with the second opinion. Thanks everyone ever so much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "minerva nine" wrote in message ... This is a classic case of "get a second opinion." If it were me (and please note that I have been deemed nuts by many), I would withdraw all the medications at this point, because he's taken so much stuff there's no way to tell what is causing his symptoms. Give him a day or two's rest (with water available, of course), then offer him some warm chicken broth and see if he takes it. I think your vet's diagnosis of IBD is baloney, because IBD doesn't come on suddenly and it doesn't cause the symptoms you're describing. Plus I've never heard of a cat getting ulcers. Second opinion. Really. Do it for Ming. -- M9 "Zaida" wrote in message ... I need an opinion please ... 2nd, 3rd, it doesn't matter. My mind is open to all possibilities and explanations. I have a 12-year old Tonkinese whom I had boarded 2 weeks ago when my family and I went out of town. I left him with a reputable vet in my area on a Friday and picked him up the next Monday. During this time, I also left instructions to go ahead with bloodwork because I had also wanted to go ahead with his dental cleaning at the same time. But time was short, so the vet simply ordered labwork and a future dental appointment was made instead. While I was gone though, the vet left me several messages saying she found, upon exam, a right ear infection that required ear flushing. I gave my consent. I was told the flushing was done Monday morning (I picked up Ming, my Siamese, Monday afternoon). When we got home, I took him out of the carrier. To my shock, he was falling all over the place. He had a staggering gait and at the very least, couldn't leap in and out of the sofa. No head tilt; no rocking eye movement though, but on his right eye, the inner lid was showing half-way consistently; very glassy and drowsy appearance. I put him on the sofa, but he was not comfortable. Intermittently, he would let out a howl (very loud; uncharacteristic of this cat). Then he vomitted at one point. For the rest of the evening, he would try to jump out of the sofa, fall, get up and stagger, find a hiding place, and howl. To say the least, he would not eat. After vomitting, he slept peacefully the rest of the night on the sofa (not his usual sleeping place by the way). He had a medication to be taken once a day: tresaderm, which I applied to his right ear the following morning (Tuesday). When I placed that in his right ear, he shook his head and then vomitted right after. I called the vet who told me to withhold the tresaderm and she replaced it with PGN which I picked up from her office. I continued to monitor his appetite. No signs, but no more vomitting episodes for the rest of the day and the cat slept all throughout. Come Wednesday morning, I applied the PGN. Again he vomitted. So I then called the vet. I also told her that Ming still hasn't eaten to say the least in that 48-hour period. She ordered him back. But during the car ride, he started foaming at the mouth. Vet gave him fluids SQ, but was concerned about the foaming. It did appear that some was also coming out of his nose and made a notation that it could be respiratory. We agreed at that point to bring him twice a day starting Thursday for fluids SQ. A new antibiotic was given (again) to replace PGN ... Baytril. Thursday morning, cat still hasn't eaten. I popped a tab of Baytril into his mouth. 15 minutes later, he vomitted again. I called the vet again. On the car ride, Ming was foaming in the mouth again. This time, she hospitalized Ming. I also picked up for her at the drugstore, a couple of prescriptions for Ming -- Carafate and Metoclopramide. She also said she was going to give him a pre-surg medication to stop the foaming. She ordered ultrasound and x-ray to rule out anything respiratory. Friday, sonogram results revealed a thickened stomach; so thick that food can't pass through, according to the vet. Vet also mentioned ulcers. I visited Ming (needless to say, broke my heart to see how lethargic he was). He preferred sleeping inside his potty box. The doctor placed an extra aluminum tray for him to sleep in. Throughout the weekend, Ming was on fluids IV. Besides the 2 drugs I mentioned, all of the previous antibiotics were stopped; but Flagyl was used instead. Sunday night, the vet told me that she has started Ming on Prednisone. My kids visited Ming Saturday. He still preferred sleeping inside the potty. I took Ming home (5/3) Monday afternoon. His vet explained to me about his gait and what she reiterated would go away in time; that the sight is more disturbing to us people than it is to Ming. I asked her what in her opinion did Ming really have and she said inflammatory bowel. I raised the possibility of the ulcers found during ultrasound being due from stress secondary to an equilibrium from the ear flushing; she believed the two were unrelated. She explained that ulcers don't develop overnight; they take time. We discussed the possibility of him having eaten a plant to have caused the ulcers. My cat is an indoor cat. He did enjoy playing with (and chewing on) tall long grasses that are sometimes included with the flowers I buy and take home. Other than that, there is no plant in this house -- I really don't have any indoors; they're fake because I'm the type who forgets to water my plants :-( $1500+ later, my cat remains unappetent, still nauseated and looking emaciated. I also signed a release statement indicating that my cat is not 100% better. At home, after the car ride from the vet, the first thing Ming did was stagger to his potty box where he promptly threw up. I called the vet to tell her this. She upped his Prednisone to twice a day. Everyday that I've had him back, I keep offering him food and water. The vet also discussed with me that it's ok to give him anything he wants (with the exception of milk) just to get him starting to eat. He would poke his head into his bowl, paw at his food, go through the motions of licking and picking up, but he wouldn't bite. It's almost as if he's scared to eat! I told the doctor this who is now afraid that it's now psychological. I won't hesitate to tell anyone that my husband has been flipping over these costs. He had just had a car accident last week Monday night as well. He came out unscathed from the accident (a 4-car pile up), but his car has been totalled. I'm a wreck between the money worries and Ming. I'm at a point where my cat is not on the threshold of death, yet does not have the will to eat. I have discussed all these concerns with the vet. I don't want to be in the position where I have to allow him to die because I can't afford it. I do have a $350 balance that the vet and I agreed to pay off next month. The vet has also said in terms that if surgery was going to be needed for Ming, she could justify euthanasia for my sake because of the surgical cost (of over $1K), but until then she really would hate not to try all means possible, medication-wise. Costs aside, I am now at a point where I'm wondering how much of Ming's predicament is primary or secondary. By admission, Ming's vet did say that she seemed to have opened a "pandora's box" when she flushed his ears. I asked if his ear drum has any tear and she said she couldn't find any, though some dirt could've attached to tear away a "pin-dot" size during the flushing. Ming is still unstable when he walks and does fall when he jumps up and out of the bed or sofa. The vet has reiterated that Ming's gastric problem and ear problem are unrelated. Yesterday after Ming came out of his potty, he sat down beside me and proceeded to clean himself (just like the good 'ol days). I was thrilled to see that. But as soon as he tilted his head up, he vomitted again. Can anyone at this point tell me that his vomitting episodes are not related to an equilibrium problem? Sonogram, according to the vet, did show ulcerations. And ulcerations "don't appear overnight". All my husband knows and calls as he sees it is this: we took a healthy, happy cat to the vet on a Friday a week-and-a-half ago. Today, my cat is so ill that the question of euthanasia is what we have been talking about most lately. I have cried and cried; and worried some more ... over everything; coming to a point where I'm hoping (praying to God) that my care for this pet shouldn't be put into test over affordability of treatment costs. But there are priorities that I cannot hugely discount. Above all, I have to give weight to my husband's concern to maintain our lives within our means. We are by far, the most humane people possible, but we are also not rich people. I just need to know if my cat will ever eat. I've withheld Prenisone the whole day yesterday as soon as Ming walked away from me to hide underneath the bed after he vomitted. He seems to "want" to eat. He looks eager to eat. But that's all he does: poke his nose into the bowl, lick, bite, but does not take the food in to eat. Today I have an appointment with the vet. She isn't pleased I withheld the prednisone, but I'm telling 'ya ... this cat's frame of mind is all I care for at this point. He hasn't thrown up yet anyway after he last vomitted yesterday morning. And yes, he did take a bite out of a small piece of bacon last night; just the size of my pinky nail, but he kept it down and hasn't vomitted since. This without prednisone. I'm so afraid to pop a pill into his mouth and be afraid to eat anything anymore, not after he took a bite out of the bacon. But that's it. And that was yesterday morning. I've had him back since Monday and it's now Thursday. This cat, being a Siamese, with his own idiosyncrasies, minus the prednisone for 24 hours now ... how much of his condition is truly IBD? I apologize for being distraught ... but I thank this board though so much in advance. ~ Zaida~ |
#13
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Hi there, Minerva. And my many thanks to everyone who wrote to post and e-mail me privately.
I've given Ming chicken broth, baby food, bland, boiled, anything that I know would be acceptably palatable to his appetite. And yes, I've withheld ALL medications, as a matter of fact, last Tuesday. Why? Because this cat has had too much. He hid from me after he vomitted Tuesday. I didn't want him to feel that I'm going to punish him by pushing anything down his throat. I'm afraid at this point, To boot, he's Siamese and he's extremely sensitive to all stimulus. I will tell you though that I sent him yesterday for fluids SQ because he needs it (it's the only thing keeping him alive) ... and I've advocated forced feeding, but this vet has adamantly said NO to forced feeding because seemingly, Ming's inability/reluctance is psychogenic in nature now. In Nursing, I'd call that "ineffective coping" ... so I did what I know best. But I also got reprimanded BIG TIME for holding off his Prednisone, a steroid to suppress bowel swelling and at the same time, stimulate appetite. She said no amount of instinct will get him to eat or drink. So far, she's right on that point because this cat will NOT drink either. She said Ming will die without Prednisone. Yes, Minerva, IBD doesn't fly with me 100% either. But I don't have any pathology report to go by. This vet relayed all sonogram "results" by phone and actually "ulcerationS" (plural form) was the term that was used to say that those were also discovered upon ultrasound. But all before that, a thickend stomach lining was the first finding that stood out. Hence, the diagnosis of "IBD". If I really wanted a full-term finding, the vet wanted me to consent to an endoscopy ... but another $1K? Yet, here I am 80% convinced that the gastric upset is triggered by nausea secondary to an equilibrium problem due to the ear flushing procedure. I mean, I can go on and on, but that is my take on the technical side. BUT there's no way for me to prove that. The vet sees this situation as entirely 2 different problems. Either that or she has to because to date, I have paid $1,250 for the gastric problems. I won't discount the fact that ulcers don't develop overnight; even the vet concedes that. Ming has been regurgitating after meals for quite sometime now; but I was never alarmed because he never did so with all foods. The vet thinks he has a GERD condition and ulcers have been developing over time, but that the ear flushing exacerbated his gastric condition and came to a full head. I'll post an update as soon as I get a private confer with the second opinion. Thanks everyone ever so much. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "minerva nine" wrote in message ... This is a classic case of "get a second opinion." If it were me (and please note that I have been deemed nuts by many), I would withdraw all the medications at this point, because he's taken so much stuff there's no way to tell what is causing his symptoms. Give him a day or two's rest (with water available, of course), then offer him some warm chicken broth and see if he takes it. I think your vet's diagnosis of IBD is baloney, because IBD doesn't come on suddenly and it doesn't cause the symptoms you're describing. Plus I've never heard of a cat getting ulcers. Second opinion. Really. Do it for Ming. -- M9 "Zaida" wrote in message ... I need an opinion please ... 2nd, 3rd, it doesn't matter. My mind is open to all possibilities and explanations. I have a 12-year old Tonkinese whom I had boarded 2 weeks ago when my family and I went out of town. I left him with a reputable vet in my area on a Friday and picked him up the next Monday. During this time, I also left instructions to go ahead with bloodwork because I had also wanted to go ahead with his dental cleaning at the same time. But time was short, so the vet simply ordered labwork and a future dental appointment was made instead. While I was gone though, the vet left me several messages saying she found, upon exam, a right ear infection that required ear flushing. I gave my consent. I was told the flushing was done Monday morning (I picked up Ming, my Siamese, Monday afternoon). When we got home, I took him out of the carrier. To my shock, he was falling all over the place. He had a staggering gait and at the very least, couldn't leap in and out of the sofa. No head tilt; no rocking eye movement though, but on his right eye, the inner lid was showing half-way consistently; very glassy and drowsy appearance. I put him on the sofa, but he was not comfortable. Intermittently, he would let out a howl (very loud; uncharacteristic of this cat). Then he vomitted at one point. For the rest of the evening, he would try to jump out of the sofa, fall, get up and stagger, find a hiding place, and howl. To say the least, he would not eat. After vomitting, he slept peacefully the rest of the night on the sofa (not his usual sleeping place by the way). He had a medication to be taken once a day: tresaderm, which I applied to his right ear the following morning (Tuesday). When I placed that in his right ear, he shook his head and then vomitted right after. I called the vet who told me to withhold the tresaderm and she replaced it with PGN which I picked up from her office. I continued to monitor his appetite. No signs, but no more vomitting episodes for the rest of the day and the cat slept all throughout. Come Wednesday morning, I applied the PGN. Again he vomitted. So I then called the vet. I also told her that Ming still hasn't eaten to say the least in that 48-hour period. She ordered him back. But during the car ride, he started foaming at the mouth. Vet gave him fluids SQ, but was concerned about the foaming. It did appear that some was also coming out of his nose and made a notation that it could be respiratory. We agreed at that point to bring him twice a day starting Thursday for fluids SQ. A new antibiotic was given (again) to replace PGN ... Baytril. Thursday morning, cat still hasn't eaten. I popped a tab of Baytril into his mouth. 15 minutes later, he vomitted again. I called the vet again. On the car ride, Ming was foaming in the mouth again. This time, she hospitalized Ming. I also picked up for her at the drugstore, a couple of prescriptions for Ming -- Carafate and Metoclopramide. She also said she was going to give him a pre-surg medication to stop the foaming. She ordered ultrasound and x-ray to rule out anything respiratory. Friday, sonogram results revealed a thickened stomach; so thick that food can't pass through, according to the vet. Vet also mentioned ulcers. I visited Ming (needless to say, broke my heart to see how lethargic he was). He preferred sleeping inside his potty box. The doctor placed an extra aluminum tray for him to sleep in. Throughout the weekend, Ming was on fluids IV. Besides the 2 drugs I mentioned, all of the previous antibiotics were stopped; but Flagyl was used instead. Sunday night, the vet told me that she has started Ming on Prednisone. My kids visited Ming Saturday. He still preferred sleeping inside the potty. I took Ming home (5/3) Monday afternoon. His vet explained to me about his gait and what she reiterated would go away in time; that the sight is more disturbing to us people than it is to Ming. I asked her what in her opinion did Ming really have and she said inflammatory bowel. I raised the possibility of the ulcers found during ultrasound being due from stress secondary to an equilibrium from the ear flushing; she believed the two were unrelated. She explained that ulcers don't develop overnight; they take time. We discussed the possibility of him having eaten a plant to have caused the ulcers. My cat is an indoor cat. He did enjoy playing with (and chewing on) tall long grasses that are sometimes included with the flowers I buy and take home. Other than that, there is no plant in this house -- I really don't have any indoors; they're fake because I'm the type who forgets to water my plants :-( $1500+ later, my cat remains unappetent, still nauseated and looking emaciated. I also signed a release statement indicating that my cat is not 100% better. At home, after the car ride from the vet, the first thing Ming did was stagger to his potty box where he promptly threw up. I called the vet to tell her this. She upped his Prednisone to twice a day. Everyday that I've had him back, I keep offering him food and water. The vet also discussed with me that it's ok to give him anything he wants (with the exception of milk) just to get him starting to eat. He would poke his head into his bowl, paw at his food, go through the motions of licking and picking up, but he wouldn't bite. It's almost as if he's scared to eat! I told the doctor this who is now afraid that it's now psychological. I won't hesitate to tell anyone that my husband has been flipping over these costs. He had just had a car accident last week Monday night as well. He came out unscathed from the accident (a 4-car pile up), but his car has been totalled. I'm a wreck between the money worries and Ming. I'm at a point where my cat is not on the threshold of death, yet does not have the will to eat. I have discussed all these concerns with the vet. I don't want to be in the position where I have to allow him to die because I can't afford it. I do have a $350 balance that the vet and I agreed to pay off next month. The vet has also said in terms that if surgery was going to be needed for Ming, she could justify euthanasia for my sake because of the surgical cost (of over $1K), but until then she really would hate not to try all means possible, medication-wise. Costs aside, I am now at a point where I'm wondering how much of Ming's predicament is primary or secondary. By admission, Ming's vet did say that she seemed to have opened a "pandora's box" when she flushed his ears. I asked if his ear drum has any tear and she said she couldn't find any, though some dirt could've attached to tear away a "pin-dot" size during the flushing. Ming is still unstable when he walks and does fall when he jumps up and out of the bed or sofa. The vet has reiterated that Ming's gastric problem and ear problem are unrelated. Yesterday after Ming came out of his potty, he sat down beside me and proceeded to clean himself (just like the good 'ol days). I was thrilled to see that. But as soon as he tilted his head up, he vomitted again. Can anyone at this point tell me that his vomitting episodes are not related to an equilibrium problem? Sonogram, according to the vet, did show ulcerations. And ulcerations "don't appear overnight". All my husband knows and calls as he sees it is this: we took a healthy, happy cat to the vet on a Friday a week-and-a-half ago. Today, my cat is so ill that the question of euthanasia is what we have been talking about most lately. I have cried and cried; and worried some more ... over everything; coming to a point where I'm hoping (praying to God) that my care for this pet shouldn't be put into test over affordability of treatment costs. But there are priorities that I cannot hugely discount. Above all, I have to give weight to my husband's concern to maintain our lives within our means. We are by far, the most humane people possible, but we are also not rich people. I just need to know if my cat will ever eat. I've withheld Prenisone the whole day yesterday as soon as Ming walked away from me to hide underneath the bed after he vomitted. He seems to "want" to eat. He looks eager to eat. But that's all he does: poke his nose into the bowl, lick, bite, but does not take the food in to eat. Today I have an appointment with the vet. She isn't pleased I withheld the prednisone, but I'm telling 'ya ... this cat's frame of mind is all I care for at this point. He hasn't thrown up yet anyway after he last vomitted yesterday morning. And yes, he did take a bite out of a small piece of bacon last night; just the size of my pinky nail, but he kept it down and hasn't vomitted since. This without prednisone. I'm so afraid to pop a pill into his mouth and be afraid to eat anything anymore, not after he took a bite out of the bacon. But that's it. And that was yesterday morning. I've had him back since Monday and it's now Thursday. This cat, being a Siamese, with his own idiosyncrasies, minus the prednisone for 24 hours now ... how much of his condition is truly IBD? I apologize for being distraught ... but I thank this board though so much in advance. ~ Zaida~ |
#14
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Hi Laura ... sorry for the HTML format.
Have you heard of vestibular syndrome? To me, this certainly fits it. My lymphoma cat had a bout with it early in his illness, and although some of the symptoms were either the result of his lymphoma or indistinguishable from the vestibular syndrome symptoms, the neurological effects you describe do seem to fit vestibular syndrome. It was mentioned somewhere in this thread or maybe in the alt.med.veterinary NG. However I look at all the possibilities, it appears to me that with the exception of vestibular syndrome, lymphoma or IBD are not acute illnesses. What are the symptoms of lymphoma? Did the vet mention the possibility of cancer, specifically lymphoma? A thickened digestive tract can be a very strong indicator of such (along with other causes, but that's just one that jumps to mind that I didn't see mentioned in your post). Yes, as a matter of fact, she did. She didn't specifically say lymphoma. She did say cancer, but if it was, she said cancer of the stomach or its related structure. Lymphoma is an entirely different illness involving the lymph vessels, right? Ming's vet wanted to go for endoscopy with biopsy to rule out cancer ... that was the only reason for doing endoscopy, yes. And as sad as I am to have to say this, I have to reiterate that it is extremely difficult for me to weigh between my cat's life and the staggering costs. An endoscopy would put me in another $1K is what I was told by the vet. That sounds to me like the vet might think it's vestibular syndrome or something similar. Are you sure she hasn't mentioned this as a possibility? Nope. No mention of vestibular syndrome by her. To me, this doesn't sound like ulcers, but I'm not qualified to say with any certainty. I specifically asked what was found in the ultrasound exam. I specifically asked if ulcers (ulcerations) were picked up by the test and she answered positively. Honestly, I think it's time for a second opinion and investigating the possibility of lymphoma as well as IBD. The old vet is unfortunately out of town (my dumb luck) but since time is of the essence to maintain Ming's fluids, I have been going back to the same vet for fluids SQ every other day. And by the way, yes, I have been force-feeding Ming. Yesterday, I was able to make him take a jar (2-1/2 oz.) of baby food. He hates it, but his stomach hasn't acted up (no vomitting) and he has used the potty. I'm due for his fluids today. If this is lymphoma, it is crucial that you get it diagnosed before the cat has been on prednisone for any length of time, as use of prednisone can decrease the efficacy of subsequent chemotherapy. I'm not assuming that you would choose to go with chemo if this did turn out to be cancer, but if it did, and if you wanted to explore that option, I'd be happy to tell you of my experiences with chemotherapy to treat my cat who had lymphoma. It's much less expensive than you might think, and side effects are quite low in cats. And lymphoma is one of the most responsive cancers to chemo. With this vet, nothing is inexpensive. In the beginning, each office visit had a charge. My husband was really aghast. All he wanted was a little show of "humanity" for us; after all, he is hard-pressed for convincing that all this medical problem with Ming was not triggered by the vet's ear flush procedure on Ming. If this is vestibular syndrome ("syndrome" to me indicating that a group of symptoms are happening together to form a pattern), then indeed, all these are HER fault ... at least a negligence somewhere in the procedure. Or it's nausea. All of those behaviors were exhibited by my lymphoma kitty shortly before and early in his chemotherapy, and it was nausea (not caused by the chemo). Is he making any chewing motions or grinding or gnashing his teeth? Those are also hallmarks of nausea. Ming IS nauseated. He would take a gulp (swallowing motion) and lick his mouth. His chewing motions do not appear normal to me. I am treating his ears now with Silvadene. Unless it's vestibular syndrome caused by cancer. Wow. I'm at a complete tizzy here now. Well, this vet did raise the possibility of cancer. IF cancer has been developing over time, then the ear flushing to treat his ear infection simply exacerbated what illness is already underway. IF that's so, then this vet has been right all along ... ??? True, but CNS symptoms *can* appear overnight in a cat that has a larger primary disease. But Ming had no CNS symptoms before the ear flushing procedure. This was an active Siamese that liked getting into mischief. The ONLY discernible symptom he ever had was his regurgitating episodes of certain foods. That behavior was consistent with him if he ate wet food. He was fine with dry food. He was even greater with R/D. Prednisone boosts appetite. I don't think you should be withholding it, personally, but I do think that before continuing much longer with prednisone, you need to definitively rule out cancer unless you have no plans to treat cancer should it turn out to be the cause. I don't know, Laura. I'm very saddened by all this, yet want to do what's best for this cat. The diagnostic procedures that this vet requires equate to a staggering amount that my husband and I can't afford. We are not lucky in that regard. Ming is 12 years old; still young according to his vet. If money weren't an object, I would definitely shoot for the moon, no questions asked. I am sorry you're going through this, but as I said, if this does turn out to be lymphoma, please post as I can give you information about my experiences with chemo for my cat, both from a financial perspective and from the perspective of whether it was worthwhile to have done it. (In my case, it most definitely was.) Thank you very much. I will most certainly bring up the possibility of Lymphoma to her when I see her this afternoon. ==== Zaida |
#15
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Hi Laura ... sorry for the HTML format.
Have you heard of vestibular syndrome? To me, this certainly fits it. My lymphoma cat had a bout with it early in his illness, and although some of the symptoms were either the result of his lymphoma or indistinguishable from the vestibular syndrome symptoms, the neurological effects you describe do seem to fit vestibular syndrome. It was mentioned somewhere in this thread or maybe in the alt.med.veterinary NG. However I look at all the possibilities, it appears to me that with the exception of vestibular syndrome, lymphoma or IBD are not acute illnesses. What are the symptoms of lymphoma? Did the vet mention the possibility of cancer, specifically lymphoma? A thickened digestive tract can be a very strong indicator of such (along with other causes, but that's just one that jumps to mind that I didn't see mentioned in your post). Yes, as a matter of fact, she did. She didn't specifically say lymphoma. She did say cancer, but if it was, she said cancer of the stomach or its related structure. Lymphoma is an entirely different illness involving the lymph vessels, right? Ming's vet wanted to go for endoscopy with biopsy to rule out cancer ... that was the only reason for doing endoscopy, yes. And as sad as I am to have to say this, I have to reiterate that it is extremely difficult for me to weigh between my cat's life and the staggering costs. An endoscopy would put me in another $1K is what I was told by the vet. That sounds to me like the vet might think it's vestibular syndrome or something similar. Are you sure she hasn't mentioned this as a possibility? Nope. No mention of vestibular syndrome by her. To me, this doesn't sound like ulcers, but I'm not qualified to say with any certainty. I specifically asked what was found in the ultrasound exam. I specifically asked if ulcers (ulcerations) were picked up by the test and she answered positively. Honestly, I think it's time for a second opinion and investigating the possibility of lymphoma as well as IBD. The old vet is unfortunately out of town (my dumb luck) but since time is of the essence to maintain Ming's fluids, I have been going back to the same vet for fluids SQ every other day. And by the way, yes, I have been force-feeding Ming. Yesterday, I was able to make him take a jar (2-1/2 oz.) of baby food. He hates it, but his stomach hasn't acted up (no vomitting) and he has used the potty. I'm due for his fluids today. If this is lymphoma, it is crucial that you get it diagnosed before the cat has been on prednisone for any length of time, as use of prednisone can decrease the efficacy of subsequent chemotherapy. I'm not assuming that you would choose to go with chemo if this did turn out to be cancer, but if it did, and if you wanted to explore that option, I'd be happy to tell you of my experiences with chemotherapy to treat my cat who had lymphoma. It's much less expensive than you might think, and side effects are quite low in cats. And lymphoma is one of the most responsive cancers to chemo. With this vet, nothing is inexpensive. In the beginning, each office visit had a charge. My husband was really aghast. All he wanted was a little show of "humanity" for us; after all, he is hard-pressed for convincing that all this medical problem with Ming was not triggered by the vet's ear flush procedure on Ming. If this is vestibular syndrome ("syndrome" to me indicating that a group of symptoms are happening together to form a pattern), then indeed, all these are HER fault ... at least a negligence somewhere in the procedure. Or it's nausea. All of those behaviors were exhibited by my lymphoma kitty shortly before and early in his chemotherapy, and it was nausea (not caused by the chemo). Is he making any chewing motions or grinding or gnashing his teeth? Those are also hallmarks of nausea. Ming IS nauseated. He would take a gulp (swallowing motion) and lick his mouth. His chewing motions do not appear normal to me. I am treating his ears now with Silvadene. Unless it's vestibular syndrome caused by cancer. Wow. I'm at a complete tizzy here now. Well, this vet did raise the possibility of cancer. IF cancer has been developing over time, then the ear flushing to treat his ear infection simply exacerbated what illness is already underway. IF that's so, then this vet has been right all along ... ??? True, but CNS symptoms *can* appear overnight in a cat that has a larger primary disease. But Ming had no CNS symptoms before the ear flushing procedure. This was an active Siamese that liked getting into mischief. The ONLY discernible symptom he ever had was his regurgitating episodes of certain foods. That behavior was consistent with him if he ate wet food. He was fine with dry food. He was even greater with R/D. Prednisone boosts appetite. I don't think you should be withholding it, personally, but I do think that before continuing much longer with prednisone, you need to definitively rule out cancer unless you have no plans to treat cancer should it turn out to be the cause. I don't know, Laura. I'm very saddened by all this, yet want to do what's best for this cat. The diagnostic procedures that this vet requires equate to a staggering amount that my husband and I can't afford. We are not lucky in that regard. Ming is 12 years old; still young according to his vet. If money weren't an object, I would definitely shoot for the moon, no questions asked. I am sorry you're going through this, but as I said, if this does turn out to be lymphoma, please post as I can give you information about my experiences with chemo for my cat, both from a financial perspective and from the perspective of whether it was worthwhile to have done it. (In my case, it most definitely was.) Thank you very much. I will most certainly bring up the possibility of Lymphoma to her when I see her this afternoon. ==== Zaida |
#16
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Hi Laura. Southern California. I think the Comcast servers are primarily
in NJ. "Laura R." wrote in message .. . circa Thu, 6 May 2004 11:28:26 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Zaida ) said, I need an opinion please ... 2nd, 3rd, it doesn't matter. My mind is open to all possibilities and explanations. Zaida, from analysis of your IP address, it appears that you are in New Jersey. Are you? If so, how far away from Philly are you? How far away from NYC? Either way, I can give you some veterinarian recommendations if you would like them. Laura -- I am Dyslexia of Borg, Your ass will be laminated. |
#17
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Hi Laura. Southern California. I think the Comcast servers are primarily
in NJ. "Laura R." wrote in message .. . circa Thu, 6 May 2004 11:28:26 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Zaida ) said, I need an opinion please ... 2nd, 3rd, it doesn't matter. My mind is open to all possibilities and explanations. Zaida, from analysis of your IP address, it appears that you are in New Jersey. Are you? If so, how far away from Philly are you? How far away from NYC? Either way, I can give you some veterinarian recommendations if you would like them. Laura -- I am Dyslexia of Borg, Your ass will be laminated. |
#18
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Hi again, Laura. I've done my reading on Lymphoma. Ming's is indicative of
Alimentary Lymphoma. This then explains the vet's need for endoscopy with biopsy. The ultimate consideration on her part was my unableness to foot the bill, Laura, if anything; not because she was unwilling to explore all the possible causes. My husband's determination was to tie up the ear flushing with the problems that were mediated from a negligent procedure; at least for the sake of empathy, if not for us, then for Ming. That's all my husband ever wanted ... *consideration* on her part. But because consideration was seemingly lacking or half-hearted, the hindrance laid with our having a very short pocket. :*( |
#19
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Hi again, Laura. I've done my reading on Lymphoma. Ming's is indicative of
Alimentary Lymphoma. This then explains the vet's need for endoscopy with biopsy. The ultimate consideration on her part was my unableness to foot the bill, Laura, if anything; not because she was unwilling to explore all the possible causes. My husband's determination was to tie up the ear flushing with the problems that were mediated from a negligent procedure; at least for the sake of empathy, if not for us, then for Ming. That's all my husband ever wanted ... *consideration* on her part. But because consideration was seemingly lacking or half-hearted, the hindrance laid with our having a very short pocket. :*( |
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