How can you love some cats, but not all?

kaeli wrote:

snip


Overwhelmingly, sick cats are not adopted and healthy ones are. It
sucks. It
sucks a lot. But shelters have to do something similar to triage
(sp?) in
war. Because it *is* a war of sorts -- a war against the unfeeling
humans who
dump their cats. A war against overpopulation and sickness. The ones
who will
take a lot of time, money, and effort to save are taking away
resources from
the ones who might get adopted much faster. They can spend $500
trying to
care for one sick cat in a heartbeat. That $500 can buy food,
neutering, and
vaccinations for at least 3 healthy, adoptable cats.

Exactly. It's a tough choice, but it has to be made. It doesn't mean
that no feral or sick cats are treated/rehabbed and placed - some are.
But if a feral comes in and is FeLV or FIV positive more often than
not, it's euthanized. It's just the way it has to be under limited
resources.



Does it suck large green donkey balls that people don't even want to
consider
adopting an FLV+ or FIV+ cat? Absolutely. But that doesn't change the
fact
that most people wouldn't consider it (or would like to, but can't,
due to
other cats in the home).

Just like in human adoption, there is a heirarchy of adoptability.
Healthy tame kittens go first, then healthy tame adults, then feral
kittens, and just about every thing else is unadoptable - unless you
can find someone who specifically wants a tame FeLV-pos or FIV-pos cat
as a companion for another FeLV-pos or FIV-pos cat. Ferals, in
general, are almost never adopted and most shelters euth them for lack
of space, anyway. The lucky ones get picked up by feral rescue before
they are euthed.


In the meantime, the cat sits in the shelter,
costing them money, while other cats might have been able to be in
his spot
and get adopted.

Yep. You can easily turn around 5-10 healthy cats or more in the time
it takes to place one FeLV cat.


It's a nasty choice to have to be made. But it does have to be made.
I for
one am glad I don't have to make it.

I've made it a bunch of times. I don't regret it one bit. Someone has
to make the tough decisions, and the people who bitch about it by and
large aren't the ones adopting FeLV and FIV positive ferals.

I just wish that every cat was a wanted cat.

-L.

"kaeli" wrote
Honestly, if I had a farm and raised animals myself, I'd feel *less*
guilty
about eating them. I'd know they at least had a good and natural life
prior
to a humane slaughter.

And I won't wear the skin of an animal that wasn't used as food. If you're
going to kill it, you might as well use the whole thing. But to farm them
just for fur or to hunt and kill non-prey animals for fur (i.e. foxes,
leopard) is abhorrent to me. I will wear lambskin or leather because I
will
eat lamb and cow.

My prime beef (pardon the pun) with eating animals is knowing how common
it
is for them to live horrid lives punctuated by a horrible death. I do my
best
to buy only free-range prey, but we all go out to eat every now and then
(I
try to stick with chicken and not think about overcrowding and the other
nasty things they do to the poor birds). I fully support any legislation
that
helps end inhumane practices and I think we as a culture don't do enough
to
ensure decent lives for our prey animals. Sure, chickens aren't cute and
cuddly, but I don't think that justifies some of the terrible things I've
heard are done to them.
I wish it were easier to find out what the laws really are, what companies
really do, who to contact to bitch about it, and so on. I wouldn't
consider
myself a big animal rights person, but I am into animal welfare. There
just
isn't any justification to torture one's food for weeks, months, or even
years before one eats it.

/ thinks the PETA nuts have given animal welfare a very bad name


I think we are along much the same lines. I have these little fantasies
about having some egg-laying hens and a dairy cow. I just don't know if I
could do the actual killing for meat.
I try to buy only free-range or cage-free meat, but like you, we go out to
eat once in a while and don't always stick to it.
I'm totally of the same mindset on the rest of your post.

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

"-L." wrote in message
oups.com...

Ashley wrote:

I don't known what the comparative situation is like in the States so
can't
comment on it.

If one is shooting a "feral" in the US it is more likely that they are
shooting a cat that belongs to someone. Ferals, in general, don't
stick around long enough to be a target.

Here, I'd draw the distinction between urban and rural. The feral cat
problem in NZ is many a rural problem, and the areas we're talking about
simply don't have people living in them. So any cat is most definitely a
feral cat. They are trapped and shot by the Department of Conservation. Once
you get to farmed areas, there is a possibility of killing someone's pet,
but most farms are large and the only tame cats within the territory would
belong to the property owners. Farmers shoot feral cats all the time.

In urban areas it's a different story because a) it could be someone's pet
and b) the main threat to wildlife in urban areas ain't cats - it's humans.
The reason there aren't kiwi or kokako or tuatara in the middle of Auckland,
or even Ekatahuna, for that matter, is that we've destroyed their habitat.
Cats aren't a threat if there's nowhere for the wildlife to live, anyway.

PETA actually has done a lot of good things for the welfare of animals.
Yes, they have sometimes gone off the deep end, I will admit. At times,
this is just to get the attention they need. Some of the undercover videos
they have taken of the food industry are enough to turn your stomach.

My diet is completely meat-free, I do not drink cow's milk (never did like
the stuff) and prefer soy cheese to dairy cheese. Not to mention that
vegetarian and vegan are much healthier than a meat-based diet.

I was surprised to find out that red meat does not drive that industry - - -
it is the leather that does. I had thought that the leather was more of a
by-product.......the cows were in demand for meat and then the leather was
used from that cow. Nope. The leather is in higher demand than the meat.

I was surprised. So if you buy leather goods, you are helping to drive the
factory farm industry.

If anyone is actually interested in finding out more about the meat industry
and strides that PETA has taken to make things better for animals, the web
address is: http://www.peta.org/
The video clips of their ads and undercover videos are here. Some are
pretty graphic:
http://www.petatv.com/

This is how I found out that in some countries they do eat cats and dogs,
yet have some as pets. I find that whole concept disgusting. I love them
all. How can you eat any of them?

Melody
"kaeli" wrote in message
...
In article ,
enlightened us with...

You are completely right. I've had this internal struggle myself. I
love
animals, but I do eat them and wear them (not fur, the occasional
leather).
I drew my line for eating at poultry and fish, but recently started
eating
red meat again, damn pregnancy cravings! Plus, I'm anemic now. I know,
I
could load up on the spinach, what a hypocrite I am. I even ate bacon
the
other day, and I haven't eaten pig for a looong time.
I felt bad getting a car with leather interior, but I wanted the options
that went with that package.
I'm sure if I had to kill my own food, I'd be a vegetarian. I've tried
to
be a vegetarian, but can't stick with it. I really do admire hard-core
vegans.


Honestly, if I had a farm and raised animals myself, I'd feel *less*
guilty
about eating them. I'd know they at least had a good and natural life
prior
to a humane slaughter.

And I won't wear the skin of an animal that wasn't used as food. If you're
going to kill it, you might as well use the whole thing. But to farm them
just for fur or to hunt and kill non-prey animals for fur (i.e. foxes,
leopard) is abhorrent to me. I will wear lambskin or leather because I
will
eat lamb and cow.

My prime beef (pardon the pun) with eating animals is knowing how common
it
is for them to live horrid lives punctuated by a horrible death. I do my
best
to buy only free-range prey, but we all go out to eat every now and then
(I
try to stick with chicken and not think about overcrowding and the other
nasty things they do to the poor birds). I fully support any legislation
that
helps end inhumane practices and I think we as a culture don't do enough
to
ensure decent lives for our prey animals. Sure, chickens aren't cute and
cuddly, but I don't think that justifies some of the terrible things I've
heard are done to them.
I wish it were easier to find out what the laws really are, what companies
really do, who to contact to bitch about it, and so on. I wouldn't
consider
myself a big animal rights person, but I am into animal welfare. There
just
isn't any justification to torture one's food for weeks, months, or even
years before one eats it.

/ thinks the PETA nuts have given animal welfare a very bad name

--
--
~kaeli~
Why do they sterilize the needles for lethal injections?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

"kaeli" wrote
I don't think it's about worth, but about pragmatism.
I'd LOVE to save them all. But, unfortunately, I have only so much money.
As
do you. As does a shelter. A shelter wants to rehome as many cats as they
can
with the available funds. If they can save 3 cats or save 1 cat, they
choose
to save 3.

We go round and round about this all the time at the shelter. Luckily,
there are more practical people in charge than me, although I do have
influence. I tend to be the "save them all" type, but I need to be brought
back into reality.

Does it suck large green donkey balls that people don't even want to
consider
adopting an FLV+ or FIV+ cat? Absolutely. But that doesn't change the fact
that most people wouldn't consider it (or would like to, but can't, due to
other cats in the home). In the meantime, the cat sits in the shelter,
costing them money, while other cats might have been able to be in his
spot
and get adopted.

It's a nasty choice to have to be made. But it does have to be made. I for
one am glad I don't have to make it.


I'm always holding my breath while that test develops. Our shelter is lucky
in that we can house one FIV+ cat and can have as many as people are willing
to foster. We can't keep FeLV+ cats in the shelter though, and foster homes
are tough to come by. Sometimes we have to put them down, and that sucks
big green donkey balls, as you said.

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

"-L." wrote
Exactly. It's a tough choice, but it has to be made. It doesn't mean
that no feral or sick cats are treated/rehabbed and placed - some are.
But if a feral comes in and is FeLV or FIV positive more often than
not, it's euthanized. It's just the way it has to be under limited
resources.
snip
Just like in human adoption, there is a heirarchy of adoptability.
Healthy tame kittens go first, then healthy tame adults, then feral
kittens, and just about every thing else is unadoptable - unless you
can find someone who specifically wants a tame FeLV-pos or FIV-pos cat
as a companion for another FeLV-pos or FIV-pos cat. Ferals, in
general, are almost never adopted and most shelters euth them for lack
of space, anyway. The lucky ones get picked up by feral rescue before
they are euthed.



Our area is so lucky in that we have two great feral rescues and if a feral
comes in, we usually don't do anything to it and one of the two rescues
takes possession of the cat. One of them does not test for FIV/FeLV. I
figure that's their call.
I have gone through some of the old records and seen the reason for euth as
"feral" too many times in the past. This was before my time at the shelter,
so I'm guessing we didn't work with the feral rescues before.
I can't put down a feral just because it happened to cross my path.

When my cat Antonio got out, I found out the policy at the local SPCA (where
he would go if animal control picked him up) was to euth ferals immediately.
I was sooooo scared that would happen to him, as he is a semi-feral.

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

"-L." wrote
i think they need to be TNR's. I just don't necessarily think they
need to be fed. Feeding makes it much easier for them to thrive and
breed. if they aren't fed, the population is controlled natually -
more selective pressure.


I think feeding makes them less likely to roam, and it's easier for the
human caretaker to look out for them, look for ill cats, pick up any
friendlys that found the feeding station, etc.

I agree with your sentiments here. The one problem I have with
releasing FeLV and FIV cats is the possibility of them spreading
disease to non-feral cats - whether they be indoor/outdoor or just an
indoor cat that escaped accidently.


That's part of the mixed feelings I have.

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

KellyH wrote:
When my cat Antonio got out, I found out the policy at the local SPCA
(where
he would go if animal control picked him up) was to euth ferals
immediately.
I was sooooo scared that would happen to him, as he is a semi-feral.

I know what you mean. The HS in Santa Clara County CA has a terrible
record for tagging cats that are NOT feral as feral, just so they can
clear the decks. I was always worried about Peewee getting out because
if you trapped him and put him in a cage he'd behave like a feral,
eventhough he defin

Most of the shelters where I have worked simply don't have room for
ferals (since they are on the bottom of the heirarchy of adoptability),
and the feral rescues in the area at the time had their own set of cats
they were trying to home. It's a real problem.

-L.

Mel wrote:
PETA actually has done a lot of good things for the welfare of
animals.
Yes, they have sometimes gone off the deep end, I will admit. At
times,
this is just to get the attention they need. Some of the undercover
videos
they have taken of the food industry are enough to turn your stomach.

They (well, the founders, Alex Pacheco and Ingrid Newkirk) also were
the first organization to prosecute a NIH researcher for animal abuse
and neglect. They are also instrumental in passing welfare legislation
in many states (like the case pig abuse in the slaughter house in North
Carolina). If you get a chance, read the book Monkey Business by Cathy
Snow Guillermo. Great read and instrumental to PeTA's history.

-L.

-L. wrote:
KellyH wrote:
When my cat Antonio got out, I found out the policy at the local
SPCA
(where
he would go if animal control picked him up) was to euth ferals
immediately.
I was sooooo scared that would happen to him, as he is a
semi-feral.

I know what you mean. The HS in Santa Clara County CA has a terrible
record for tagging cats that are NOT feral as feral, just so they can
clear the decks. I was always worried about Peewee getting out
because
if you trapped him and put him in a cage he'd behave like a feral,
eventhough he defin

Gee - dunno what happened here. This should read, "... he definitely
doesn't look like one."


Most of the shelters where I have worked simply don't have room for
ferals (since they are on the bottom of the heirarchy of
adoptability),
and the feral rescues in the area at the time had their own set of
cats
they were trying to home. It's a real problem.

-L.