Is it wrong to want another purebred?

"Steve G" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mary wrote:
(...)

"BrandY" does not have me killfiled that I know of.

OK. One loses track. So many killfiles, so few deaths.


Meanwhile, why do you think "Brandy" argues that cats ought to be
left unsupervised outside when she keeps her own inside?

I'm loath to speak for anyone, but could it be she thinks that cats
should have outdoor access when it's safe to allow them this? And she
lives somewhere where she thinks it is not safe to allow 'em out?


No, asshole, it is because she DECLAWED her cat when the director
of her porn films complained that she had scratches. Brandy killfiled me
rather than discuss that. lol

"Mary" wrote in message
...

"Steve G" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mary wrote:
(...)
When you accused me of backpedaling, I was not wrong.

We're not so green we're cabbage-looking.

Well, I wasn't. When your good buddy Lynnie the Socialist (*choke*)
Netcop detailed her eye disease here in the cat group I said "Wow. So
it isn't always nice people that terrible things happen to."

When Mary L. accused me of being happy about Lynnie's
macular degeneration I merely pointed out that that is not
what I said. Because it wasn't what I said.

You called that backpedaling. As usual, you are full of ****.

(There you go, Catnipped! I did that just for you. This is typical
Steve sniping. He can't hold his own in a fair argument, so this is
what he does. I rarely call him on it, but since you called Ashley on
the same fatuous bull****, I thought hey, why not.)

Um, thank you? ; You go girl! LOL!!

Hugs,

CatNipped

"ceb" wrote in message
...
"Steve G" wrote in
oups.com:

Not sure if raccoons are much of a risk to cats
anyway?


One of my friends came into her kitchen one day to find one of her cats
sitting next to a raccoon who had come in through the cat door. They were
just sitting there. I believe the raccoon had already eaten all the cat
food by that time.

Of course, a rabid raccoon could be more of a problem.


You must be kidding! Raccoons are fierce fighters and they
don't have to be rabid. If a cat broke bad with a raccoon or
tried to defend its food the raccoon would kill the cat.

kaeli wrote in
:

In article ,
enlightened us with...

I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't CARE about cats as we care
about children, I meant that comparisons between cats and humans
based on each one's capacity for autonomy are not helpful. I love
Rosalie as a family member, too. But she is better at protecting
herself than my friend's 3 year old daughter is. I don't think it's
true that she is "equivalent" to a toddler -- that's the comparison
that isn't helpful, IMO.

I don't feel they are equivalent 100%. Far from it.
I do think that one can make comparisons between things that aren't
100% the same, though.
Heck, some mentally disabled adults aren't as good at protecting
themselves as some toddlers, but that doesn't mean we don't compare
them. Compare and contrast is the hallmark of humanity. Or english
class. One of the two.

Yes, but it is then not accurate to draw conclusions based on uneven
comparisons.


The point was that neither a toddler nor a cat (or a dog, etc) can
make an informed decision based on something someone tells them. They
simply can't comprehend it and process it. I cannot teach a child
about red/green lights until they are old enough to "get it".
Therefore it is my job to see that they don't wander into traffic.
Same for my pets. Same for a mentally disabled adult in my care. Do
all those beings have the same intelligence level? Of course not! They
are similar, not the same.

That is a good point. Their reasoning skills might be equivalent.
However, most cats have really strong survival instincts that can help
them outdoors. Rosalie never goes near the road -- I surmise because she
is afraid of loud noises, and cars are loud. She tries to stay away from
the loud and the unknown.


Can a cat learn to avoid cars? Sure!! But can they learn to be extra
careful and watch for the light even when they're scared and running
from something, or distracted and chasing a pretty little butterfly? I
doubt it. And I can't explain to them what might happen. I can't
explain an abstract concept like "the possibility of death" to a cat
or a baby.

True.



I have lived in places where my cat couldn't go out at all -- I'm not
trying to convince you that you should let your cat out. I'm just
giving my reasons and trying to explain that one can love their pets
as family members and yet have a differing view on this subject.

Oh, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was disagreeing with you on
the whole "I love my cat but I let it out" thing. I'm sure most people
who let their cats out (especially the ones who post here) love their
cats and the cats pretty much stay in their own yards/gardens.
In fact, it seems to me a lot of the people who let them out do so
*because* they love them and think that it's what is best. I don't see
too many who say they let the cat out because they don't care what
happens to it! (at least not here on this group)

Thank you. I was feeling that some posters were saying that to let the
cats out means that one doesn't love them, or love them enough, or love
them as much as those who keep their cats in. That was primarily what
caused me to jump into the thread.


I don't let MY cats out because where I live is not safe. And I don't
believe in letting cats roam [1] where I live because it isn't safe
(and in so populous an area, it's just plain rude, too).
I know nothing about where you live. Only you can say how safe your
place is, how safe your cats are, where they are allowed to go, etc.

[1] Note that I am usually careful to use the word 'roam' -- I have no
problems with letting your cats wander about your own property if you
live in an area with no predators to harm them. I have a problem with
people who let their cats roam, which implies that the cat is all over
the neighborhood, in other people's yards, getting into things that
aren't yours, etc.


I like the roamers, myself -- I love to see cats around the neighborhood
and I even like the cheeky ones that come up on my deck. I love meeting
cats that will come up and say hi when I'm out walking, and there's
really nothing cuter than a cat saying hello to my dog Zoe (Zoe is
exceedingly respectful of cats, and they seem to sense this). But neither
of my girls tend/ed to roam very far themselves, and both of them
are/were wary of strangers, so all anyone would have to do would be to
approach them to get them to run home.


--
Catherine
& Rosalie the calico

"kaeli" wrote in message
...

(tho' I thought Ashley said she lived in a rural area with few cars...was
I
mistaken?)

No, I live in a city - but my property was chosen not least because it
minimises the risk of the cats going anywhere near the road - and they
don't, they wait for me at the bottom of the driveway when I go up to
collect the morning paper. They sit there, watching the traffic from the
distance, listening to the noise, then greet me when I come back to them,
and either come inside with me, or take off into the bush to play.

My house, and the one I lived in before, is down a *very* long driveway
(there are two other properties between me and the road) and my land
consists almost entirely of native bush, which the cats love and spend
almost all their outdoor time in, guarding the boundaries to keep neighbour
cats away (I can sit on my balcony and watch them sitting there, my cats on
one side of the boundary, neighbours' cats on the other, in an uneasy truce
that lasts until one of them takes one step too far ... then the intruder
gets batted, retreats to the right side of the invisible line, and it's all
OK again) or climbing the trees for the sheer pleasure of it. One of my cats
is a natural climber. The first thing he does on any property is spot the
most likely tree to climb - then climb it and sit there watching the world
until he's bored, then backs down again.

One of the points the indoors-only brigade keep misrepresenting is cats'
propensity to roam. Yes, they can roam a couple of miles, and some do. Those
some are unneutered toms looking for a mate. Neutered pets, who know their
territory is where the food is, and who encounter neighbouring cats (or
dogs) when they step over boundary lines "roam" in a much-diminished area,
one that can frequently be measured in square metres, rather than
kilometres.

kaeli wrote:
(...)

You are _such_ a ****head sometimes.

Me mam said that on occasion of my birth. Rectal delivery, y'see.

S.

Mary wrote:
(...)
It really is, as Sherry said, like shooting fish in a barrel. And now
we
have Steve G. and ceb swimming around in there. Enough fish
for everyone!

When shooting fish...

....point harpoon *away* from forehead.

S.

On Mon 04 Apr 2005 04:16:25a, -L. wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
roups.com):


wrote:
Oh what the hell. I'm starting to think B0b Brenchly has gotten
into his wife's dresses again.

LOL!! Whatever happened to ol' Bob-o?

-L.



I don't miss him. I was just thinking while skimming over this
thread how cute it is to see all the newbies engaging in the age-
old cat ng indoor/outdoor debate. Awwwwww yawn

They'd have had a field day with him.

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

"ceb" wrote in message
...
kaeli wrote in
:

In article ,
enlightened us with...

I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't CARE about cats as we care
about children, I meant that comparisons between cats and humans
based on each one's capacity for autonomy are not helpful. I love
Rosalie as a family member, too. But she is better at protecting
herself than my friend's 3 year old daughter is. I don't think it's
true that she is "equivalent" to a toddler -- that's the comparison
that isn't helpful, IMO.

I don't feel they are equivalent 100%. Far from it.
I do think that one can make comparisons between things that aren't
100% the same, though.
Heck, some mentally disabled adults aren't as good at protecting
themselves as some toddlers, but that doesn't mean we don't compare
them. Compare and contrast is the hallmark of humanity. Or english
class. One of the two.

Yes, but it is then not accurate to draw conclusions based on uneven
comparisons.


The point was that neither a toddler nor a cat (or a dog, etc) can
make an informed decision based on something someone tells them. They
simply can't comprehend it and process it. I cannot teach a child
about red/green lights until they are old enough to "get it".
Therefore it is my job to see that they don't wander into traffic.
Same for my pets. Same for a mentally disabled adult in my care. Do
all those beings have the same intelligence level? Of course not! They
are similar, not the same.

That is a good point. Their reasoning skills might be equivalent.
However, most cats have really strong survival instincts that can help
them outdoors. Rosalie never goes near the road -- I surmise because she
is afraid of loud noises, and cars are loud. She tries to stay away from
the loud and the unknown.


Can a cat learn to avoid cars? Sure!! But can they learn to be extra
careful and watch for the light even when they're scared and running
from something, or distracted and chasing a pretty little butterfly? I
doubt it. And I can't explain to them what might happen. I can't
explain an abstract concept like "the possibility of death" to a cat
or a baby.

True.



I have lived in places where my cat couldn't go out at all -- I'm not
trying to convince you that you should let your cat out. I'm just
giving my reasons and trying to explain that one can love their pets
as family members and yet have a differing view on this subject.

Oh, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was disagreeing with you on
the whole "I love my cat but I let it out" thing. I'm sure most people
who let their cats out (especially the ones who post here) love their
cats and the cats pretty much stay in their own yards/gardens.
In fact, it seems to me a lot of the people who let them out do so
*because* they love them and think that it's what is best. I don't see
too many who say they let the cat out because they don't care what
happens to it! (at least not here on this group)

Thank you. I was feeling that some posters were saying that to let the
cats out means that one doesn't love them, or love them enough, or love
them as much as those who keep their cats in. That was primarily what
caused me to jump into the thread.


I don't let MY cats out because where I live is not safe. And I don't
believe in letting cats roam [1] where I live because it isn't safe
(and in so populous an area, it's just plain rude, too).
I know nothing about where you live. Only you can say how safe your
place is, how safe your cats are, where they are allowed to go, etc.

[1] Note that I am usually careful to use the word 'roam' -- I have no
problems with letting your cats wander about your own property if you
live in an area with no predators to harm them. I have a problem with
people who let their cats roam, which implies that the cat is all over
the neighborhood, in other people's yards, getting into things that
aren't yours, etc.


I like the roamers, myself -- I love to see cats around the neighborhood
and I even like the cheeky ones that come up on my deck. I love meeting
cats that will come up and say hi when I'm out walking, and there's
really nothing cuter than a cat saying hello to my dog Zoe (Zoe is
exceedingly respectful of cats, and they seem to sense this). But neither
of my girls tend/ed to roam very far themselves, and both of them
are/were wary of strangers, so all anyone would have to do would be to
approach them to get them to run home.



You appear to live in Richmond, Virginia, is that right?

"Ashley" wrote in message
...

"kaeli" wrote in message
...

(tho' I thought Ashley said she lived in a rural area with few
cars...was
I
mistaken?)

No, I live in a city - but my property was chosen not least because it
minimises the risk of the cats going anywhere near the road - and they
don't, they wait for me at the bottom of the driveway when I go up to
collect the morning paper. They sit there, watching the traffic from the
distance, listening to the noise, then greet me when I come back to them,
and either come inside with me, or take off into the bush to play.

My house, and the one I lived in before, is down a *very* long driveway
(there are two other properties between me and the road) and my land
consists almost entirely of native bush, which the cats love and spend
almost all their outdoor time in, guarding the boundaries to keep
neighbour
cats away (I can sit on my balcony and watch them sitting there, my cats
on
one side of the boundary, neighbours' cats on the other, in an uneasy
truce
that lasts until one of them takes one step too far ... then the intruder
gets batted, retreats to the right side of the invisible line, and it's
all
OK again) or climbing the trees for the sheer pleasure of it. One of my
cats
is a natural climber. The first thing he does on any property is spot the
most likely tree to climb - then climb it and sit there watching the world
until he's bored, then backs down again.

One of the points the indoors-only brigade keep misrepresenting is cats'
propensity to roam. Yes, they can roam a couple of miles, and some do.
Those
some are unneutered toms looking for a mate. Neutered pets, who know their
territory is where the food is, and who encounter neighbouring cats (or
dogs) when they step over boundary lines "roam" in a much-diminished area,
one that can frequently be measured in square metres, rather than
kilometres.



This is utter bull****. My strong ideas against allowing cats
to roam unsupervised is a direct result of my parents being
exactly the way Ashley is. We "always had cats," just not
for very long because even though they were neutered
and well fed, my parents insisted on letting them out
when they wanted to go. We lived in lovely quiet suburbs
and old city neighborhoods, long driveways, lots of
shrubbery and yard, trees, all that good stuff that cats
love. The cats disappeared altogether, certainly poisoned,
stolen, or killed, showed up under bushes with their bellies
ripped out by dogs, or where they had dragged themselves
after being hit by cars.

They certainly roamed far enough to encounter things
that hurt them.