"There must beat least 50 cats"

I would imagine those people are cat haters. We dealt with something
similar at the apartment complex where we used to live. Years ago the
complex put a few cats on the grounds to keep the mice away but they
never spayed or neutered them so the colony multiplied. Then many
people were complaining and they too over exaggerated how many cats
were there. I always saw the same ones and it never appeared to be more
than 10.

I think it's wonderful that you're feeding the ferals and helping with
the TNR. My mom is currently feeding a colony that lives in a wooded
area behind a dumpster which is located behind a gas station & 7-11
convenience store. There are probably about 10-15 cats there. She's
managed to get a few of them in and has either adopted them herself or
found homes for them. My husband and I have also rescued several feral
cats - three of which we adopted ourselves. We also took in 5 kittens
last April when their owner claimed she was going to "dump" them
because she couldn't find homes for them and she didn't want them.
(Awful that people could even consider that, isn't it?) So we promptly
too them in with the intention of finding them good homes but we
couldn't find anyone interested and as time went by, we got used to
having them around. They're all sweethearts with their own little
personalities. I can't imagine anyone ever being able to look into
those little eyes and just discard them like yesterday's trash. Sadly,
there are too many people out there that just don't care...hence the
reason why there are so many feral cats.
Phil P. wrote:
"Lynne" wrote in message
m...
on Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:31:31 GMT, "Phil P." wrote:

Have you ever noticed how people always say "there must be at least 50
or 60 cats" when they see a colony of only 10-15 cats? lol I got an
urgent call about a "huge" colony that the local residents were
complaining to the board of health about because there were "so many".
I went to the colony at dusk and dawn and late at night for three
days- I put out 5 plates of kitty krack and hid for three hours. I
didn't count more than a total of 12 cats total in all 3 days.

This isn't the first time I heard such an exaggeration. I really
wonder why so many people really believe they're seeing 5 times as
many cats as there actually are???

What an assorted colony this is!!!

Enjoy.

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0008.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0060.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0048.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_0009.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0057.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_0061-sm.jpg


Holy cow! I mean COWS!! Those are the best fed ferals I've ever seen!


You're not kidding! Those cats eat better than a lot of people!


There must be some great hunting there.


They established their colony in a vacant building behind a restaurant. A
few employees took a liking to the cats. The chef sautés a few pounds of
ground sirlorn or chicken or turkey for them and the waiters alternate
delivering it! True story. lol

The cats have begun hanging around in the parking lot in the back of the
restaurant. That's what led to the complaints- presumably by patrons or the
owner of an office building nearby. At least the restaurant stuck up for
the cats and told the BOH they keep the mice and rats under control. To
keep the status quo, I agreed to TNR the cats. Hopefully the restaurant
will cover all or at least half of the cost. It looks like it might be a
hard sell since the restaurant thinks the more cats the better for rodent
control. The area is reclaimed swampland. So, rats are abundant.



I would bet that the people who over estimate the number of cats just are
not cat lovers. They probably can't distinguish one cat from another or
figure out how to count them. Either that or they are exaggerating on
purpose in order to get quick action (which makes me think they are not
only cat lovers, but perhaps cat haters.)


I don't know-- I've heard people I know and work with tell other people
"He's (me) has like 20 cats". Actually I only have 12- 5 are mine and 7 are
fosters- 3 of which are kittens. Maybe cat reproduce prolifically in
people's imagination, too! lol



Gorgeous kitties--thanks for sharing!

They look more like pampered pets than ferals, don't they?


This one caught me:

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_b+w-bk-eye_0069.jpg


Looks like she's saying "Hey, what are doing?" lol

Phil

The cats are beautiful too! I'm glad they have you and the restaurant
to help look after them and make sure they eat well. )

Sunshine
Phil P. wrote:
Have you ever noticed how people always say "there must be at least 50 or 60
cats" when they see a colony of only 10-15 cats? lol I got an urgent call
about a "huge" colony that the local residents were complaining to the board
of health about because there were "so many". I went to the colony at dusk
and dawn and late at night for three days- I put out 5 plates of kitty krack
and hid for three hours. I didn't count more than a total of 12 cats total
in all 3 days.

This isn't the first time I heard such an exaggeration. I really wonder why
so many people really believe they're seeing 5 times as many cats as there
actually are???

What an assorted colony this is!!!

Enjoy.

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0008.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0060.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0048.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_0009.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0057.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_0061-sm.jpg

Phil P. wrote in message
news:XyHph.5034$Cn3.687@trnddc02...
[snip-snip-snip]
[10-15 ferals] established their colony in a vacant
building behind a restaurant. A few employees took
a liking to the cats. The chef sautés a few pounds of
ground sirlorn or chicken or turkey for them and the
waiters alternate delivering it! True story. lol

[T]he restaurant stuck up for the cats and told the
BOH they keep the mice and rats under control.
To keep the status quo, I agreed to TNR the cats.
[snippity-snip]
the restaurant thinks the more cats the better for
rodent control. The area is reclaimed swampland.
So, rats are abundant.

Won't keeping them so well fed suppress most of their hunting
desire? (Although I can imagine finding the proud prize from one of
the colony offered to the restaurant as fair-trade meat might be
more concerning.)

The Ranger

The Ranger wrote:
Phil P. wrote in message
news:XyHph.5034$Cn3.687@trnddc02...
[snip-snip-snip]
[10-15 ferals] established their colony in a vacant
building behind a restaurant. A few employees took
a liking to the cats. The chef sautés a few pounds of
ground sirlorn or chicken or turkey for them and the
waiters alternate delivering it! True story. lol

[T]he restaurant stuck up for the cats and told the
BOH they keep the mice and rats under control.
To keep the status quo, I agreed to TNR the cats.
[snippity-snip]
the restaurant thinks the more cats the better for
rodent control. The area is reclaimed swampland.
So, rats are abundant.

Won't keeping them so well fed suppress most of their hunting
desire? (Although I can imagine finding the proud prize from one of
the colony offered to the restaurant as fair-trade meat might be
more concerning.)

not really, that old idea that a hungry cat will hunt more is really
just a fallacy, and that with holding food from a cat and deliberately
making it hungry will turn it into a hunter is also rubbish too.
Remember cats need energy to hunt and so need to be fed to get that
fuel, hwo else are they going to have the energy to chase prey and
catch it? Also a lot of cats will hunt anyway even if they have an
abundance of food on offer at home just for the thrill of it and
because they can.

I think most of the cats I have had have been in that category and they
tend to bring their catches home and dump on my floor as 'presents'
whilst walking round the house yowling in that weird way which i now
know means "look what i got you mum!!". They rarely eat these little
gifts, just toss them about in the air or walk about the house with
them in their mouths proudly showing them off (still alive the case of
jessie who lacks the necessary teeth to kill the poor terrified mouse
with), it really is quite sweet that they bring stuff home for you, i
can't help but be touched by it.

I think if a cat is a hunter it will do so regardless if it is well fed
or not, and starving at cat will not suddenly turn a one who is not
into a feared mouser. I am sure someone out there will disagree with me
but that is just my tuppence worth.

Bookie

"dgk" wrote in message
...

Hmm. Perhaps if the cat's weren't so well fed they'd eat more rats?
Given a choice between Sirlon Flambe and rat, I think I'd pick the
Sirlon. Of course, the rats are more fun in that they're still moving.

The hunting instinct has nothing to do with hunger. Feeding only reduces the
amount of prey the cat will actually eat.

"The Ranger" wrote in message
...

Won't keeping them so well fed suppress most of their hunting
desire?

The hunting instinct has nothing to do with hunger. Feeding a cat only
reduces the amount of prey the cat will actually eat. Many cats will stop
in the middle of a meal to make a kill if the opportunity presents itself
and then return to eating their original meal.

"Wendy" wrote in message
. ..

"Phil P." wrote in message
news:XyHph.5034$Cn3.687@trnddc02...

"Lynne" wrote in message
m...
on Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:31:31 GMT, "Phil P." wrote:

Have you ever noticed how people always say "there must be at least
50
or 60 cats" when they see a colony of only 10-15 cats? lol I got an
urgent call about a "huge" colony that the local residents were
complaining to the board of health about because there were "so
many".
I went to the colony at dusk and dawn and late at night for three
days- I put out 5 plates of kitty krack and hid for three hours. I
didn't count more than a total of 12 cats total in all 3 days.

This isn't the first time I heard such an exaggeration. I really
wonder why so many people really believe they're seeing 5 times as
many cats as there actually are???

What an assorted colony this is!!!

Enjoy.

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0008.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0060.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0048.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_0009.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0057.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_0061-sm.jpg


Holy cow! I mean COWS!! Those are the best fed ferals I've ever seen!


You're not kidding! Those cats eat better than a lot of people!


There must be some great hunting there.


They established their colony in a vacant building behind a restaurant.
A
few employees took a liking to the cats. The chef sautés a few pounds
of
ground sirlorn or chicken or turkey for them and the waiters alternate
delivering it! True story. lol

The cats have begun hanging around in the parking lot in the back of the
restaurant. That's what led to the complaints- presumably by patrons or
the
owner of an office building nearby. At least the restaurant stuck up
for
the cats and told the BOH they keep the mice and rats under control. To
keep the status quo, I agreed to TNR the cats. Hopefully the restaurant
will cover all or at least half of the cost. It looks like it might be
a
hard sell since the restaurant thinks the more cats the better for
rodent
control. The area is reclaimed swampland. So, rats are abundant.



I would bet that the people who over estimate the number of cats just
are
not cat lovers. They probably can't distinguish one cat from another
or
figure out how to count them. Either that or they are exaggerating on
purpose in order to get quick action (which makes me think they are not
only cat lovers, but perhaps cat haters.)


I don't know-- I've heard people I know and work with tell other people
"He's (me) has like 20 cats". Actually I only have 12- 5 are mine and 7
are
fosters- 3 of which are kittens. Maybe cat reproduce prolifically in
people's imagination, too! lol



Gorgeous kitties--thanks for sharing!

They look more like pampered pets than ferals, don't they?


This one caught me:

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_b+w-bk-eye_0069.jpg


Looks like she's saying "Hey, what are doing?" lol

Phil



Sounds much like the bunch I've been trapping the last couple of months
(taking that long because I can only get a few spay appts. at a time).


I know whatch mean. Trapping the cats isn't a problem- its getting them
into the vet on short notice. I've been using 4 vets- the only ones in my
area that will work with ferals- 2 are really good about short-notice
neuters. They'll take the cats in the same day I trap them, hold them until
neutering day, and then keep them a day for observation . The only problems
are they only do surgeries 2 days a week- unless its an emergency- and
they'll only take 2 or 3 cats at a time- or 4 or 5 if they're all males. The
other two vets usually give me appointments for a week or two away. They
don't give me much of a discount and insist I bring the cats in in a
restraint module- they don't like to just tip the cage a little to get the
cat against the side to sedate them or use a trap isolator to gently squeeze
the cat against the side.

http://maxshouse.com/Equipment/Tru-C...module_S30.jpg

They're real PITA prima donnas but they're excellent surgeons. Their
incisions are very small and they don't shave off a big patch of fur- which
I like for winter neuters. If I'm in a trapping frenzy before kitten season,
I'll make several appointments then hope I can trap the cats a day or two
before the appointments. With drop traps I can pretty much trap on demand.


We've
trapped 20 cats so far and have maybe 7 more to go (one has been missing
for
a number of weeks).


I've had a few MIAs in a couple of my colonies. A couple showed up a few
months later. So, keep the faith.


They had originally said there were only around 15 back
there. I guess people tell you what they think will make you willing to
work
the problem.

I don't think that's the reason- If they wanted you to TNR the colony, they
would probably give you a very conservative estimate to make the job sound
easy. Not many people are equipped- or would even want to take on a 50-cat
colony- unless it was a combined effort of several groups or agencies.


These guys are also behind a restaurant in a shopping center and were
being
fed by the restaurant employees. Unfortunately for the cats, the
restaurant
closed on New Years Day. There is a woman who is going back there twice a
day to feed and keep an eye on them. Having them used to the restaurant
food
certainly makes it a challenge to find something that will entice them
into
the traps though.

Did my heart good to trap a big boy this week who had been walking by the
traps and marking them. Now I'm down to the last few who sit there going
"neener neener".

Use a drop trap- they're excellent for trapping trap-wise cats. Drop traps
are also great for trapping only the cats you want. They're simple to make
and the materials only cost about $80- if you make a folding trap and use
good quality netting. A trap that doesn't fold only costs about $30-50 and
takes about 3 hours to make. I've made about 5 folding traps in the last
month because a few of my trappers don't have vans or cars big enough to
hold a regular drop trap. Here're some pictures of the frame of a trap I'm
working on so you can see how it opens:

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/drop_trap_pop_01.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/drop_trap_pop_02.jpg

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/drop_trap_pop_03.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/drop_trap_pop_04.jpg

My next drop trap will be 8' or 10' square so I can trap an entire small
colony with one drop. I'll just need to find more vets who will neuter them.
I just can't handle another kitten season like this passed one- it never
ended. I still have kittens from the year before that are now full grown and
much harder to adopt.

Phil

"Lynne" wrote in message
...
on Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:22:15 GMT, "Phil P." wrote:

To keep the status quo, I agreed to TNR the cats.

Kudos, Phil! Those who do the kind of work you do are literally saving
thousands upon thousands of cats.

Thanks.

Of the 5 kittens in an average litter about 3 are female. That's about 15
kittens from the second generation of the first litter- 9 of those 15
kittens would be female-- who would produce another 45 kittens. That's about
60 kittens from *one* female and her female offspring in just 3 generations-
in just under 1 1/2 years. I won't even attempt to do the math for 266
females. I'm getting a headache already because I won't even notice the
difference next kitten season-- 100x more than that will still be born.

The HSUS estimate of 420,000 cats from one female and her offspring is a
gross exaggeration because a lot of the kittens wouldn't survive to breeding
age.



I still can't get over those gorgeous fatties. You may have to adjust
your
trap settings! ;-)

Look at this handsome devil! He was adopted within an hour on his first day
at the store!

http://maxshouse.com/Rescues/hald_or...abby-01-sm.jpg

"Phil P." wrote in message
news:Vreqh.670$jG1.188@trnddc04...

"Wendy" wrote in message
. ..

"Phil P." wrote in message
news:XyHph.5034$Cn3.687@trnddc02...

"Lynne" wrote in message
m...
on Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:31:31 GMT, "Phil P."
wrote:

Have you ever noticed how people always say "there must be at least
50
or 60 cats" when they see a colony of only 10-15 cats? lol I got an
urgent call about a "huge" colony that the local residents were
complaining to the board of health about because there were "so
many".
I went to the colony at dusk and dawn and late at night for three
days- I put out 5 plates of kitty krack and hid for three hours. I
didn't count more than a total of 12 cats total in all 3 days.

This isn't the first time I heard such an exaggeration. I really
wonder why so many people really believe they're seeing 5 times as
many cats as there actually are???

What an assorted colony this is!!!

Enjoy.

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0008.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0060.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0048.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_0009.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt-0057.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_0061-sm.jpg


Holy cow! I mean COWS!! Those are the best fed ferals I've ever
seen!


You're not kidding! Those cats eat better than a lot of people!


There must be some great hunting there.


They established their colony in a vacant building behind a restaurant.
A
few employees took a liking to the cats. The chef sautés a few pounds
of
ground sirlorn or chicken or turkey for them and the waiters alternate
delivering it! True story. lol

The cats have begun hanging around in the parking lot in the back of
the
restaurant. That's what led to the complaints- presumably by patrons or
the
owner of an office building nearby. At least the restaurant stuck up
for
the cats and told the BOH they keep the mice and rats under control.
To
keep the status quo, I agreed to TNR the cats. Hopefully the
restaurant
will cover all or at least half of the cost. It looks like it might be
a
hard sell since the restaurant thinks the more cats the better for
rodent
control. The area is reclaimed swampland. So, rats are abundant.



I would bet that the people who over estimate the number of cats just
are
not cat lovers. They probably can't distinguish one cat from another
or
figure out how to count them. Either that or they are exaggerating on
purpose in order to get quick action (which makes me think they are
not
only cat lovers, but perhaps cat haters.)


I don't know-- I've heard people I know and work with tell other people
"He's (me) has like 20 cats". Actually I only have 12- 5 are mine and
7
are
fosters- 3 of which are kittens. Maybe cat reproduce prolifically in
people's imagination, too! lol



Gorgeous kitties--thanks for sharing!

They look more like pampered pets than ferals, don't they?


This one caught me:

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/clsdt_b+w-bk-eye_0069.jpg


Looks like she's saying "Hey, what are doing?" lol

Phil



Sounds much like the bunch I've been trapping the last couple of months
(taking that long because I can only get a few spay appts. at a time).


I know whatch mean. Trapping the cats isn't a problem- its getting them
into the vet on short notice. I've been using 4 vets- the only ones in my
area that will work with ferals- 2 are really good about short-notice
neuters. They'll take the cats in the same day I trap them, hold them
until
neutering day, and then keep them a day for observation . The only
problems
are they only do surgeries 2 days a week- unless its an emergency- and
they'll only take 2 or 3 cats at a time- or 4 or 5 if they're all males.
The
other two vets usually give me appointments for a week or two away. They
don't give me much of a discount and insist I bring the cats in in a
restraint module- they don't like to just tip the cage a little to get the
cat against the side to sedate them or use a trap isolator to gently
squeeze
the cat against the side.

http://maxshouse.com/Equipment/Tru-C...module_S30.jpg

They're real PITA prima donnas but they're excellent surgeons. Their
incisions are very small and they don't shave off a big patch of fur-
which
I like for winter neuters. If I'm in a trapping frenzy before kitten
season,
I'll make several appointments then hope I can trap the cats a day or two
before the appointments. With drop traps I can pretty much trap on
demand.


We've
trapped 20 cats so far and have maybe 7 more to go (one has been missing
for
a number of weeks).


I've had a few MIAs in a couple of my colonies. A couple showed up a few
months later. So, keep the faith.


They had originally said there were only around 15 back
there. I guess people tell you what they think will make you willing to
work
the problem.

I don't think that's the reason- If they wanted you to TNR the colony,
they
would probably give you a very conservative estimate to make the job sound
easy. Not many people are equipped- or would even want to take on a
50-cat
colony- unless it was a combined effort of several groups or agencies.


These guys are also behind a restaurant in a shopping center and were
being
fed by the restaurant employees. Unfortunately for the cats, the
restaurant
closed on New Years Day. There is a woman who is going back there twice a
day to feed and keep an eye on them. Having them used to the restaurant
food
certainly makes it a challenge to find something that will entice them
into
the traps though.

Did my heart good to trap a big boy this week who had been walking by the
traps and marking them. Now I'm down to the last few who sit there going
"neener neener".

Use a drop trap- they're excellent for trapping trap-wise cats. Drop traps
are also great for trapping only the cats you want. They're simple to make
and the materials only cost about $80- if you make a folding trap and use
good quality netting. A trap that doesn't fold only costs about $30-50
and
takes about 3 hours to make. I've made about 5 folding traps in the last
month because a few of my trappers don't have vans or cars big enough to
hold a regular drop trap. Here're some pictures of the frame of a trap
I'm
working on so you can see how it opens:

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/drop_trap_pop_01.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/drop_trap_pop_02.jpg

http://maxshouse.com/Feral/drop_trap_pop_03.jpg
http://maxshouse.com/Feral/drop_trap_pop_04.jpg

My next drop trap will be 8' or 10' square so I can trap an entire small
colony with one drop. I'll just need to find more vets who will neuter
them.
I just can't handle another kitten season like this passed one- it never
ended. I still have kittens from the year before that are now full grown
and
much harder to adopt.

Phil


I hear you about this last kitten season. It's not ending. We got in two
litters last weekend and just had someone in the store today trying to get
us to take another litter. We still have two litters from the summer to find
homes for.

At least people are finally looking at our adults. We adopted a girl out two
weeks ago who came in last April when she was pregnant and another today who
we picked up in another colony last June.

W

"Phil P." wrote in message
news:8teqh.1330$hi7.751@trnddc08...

"Lynne" wrote in message
...
on Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:22:15 GMT, "Phil P." wrote:

To keep the status quo, I agreed to TNR the cats.

Kudos, Phil! Those who do the kind of work you do are literally saving
thousands upon thousands of cats.

Thanks.

Of the 5 kittens in an average litter about 3 are female. That's about 15
kittens from the second generation of the first litter- 9 of those 15
kittens would be female-- who would produce another 45 kittens. That's
about
60 kittens from *one* female and her female offspring in just 3
generations-
in just under 1 1/2 years. I won't even attempt to do the math for 266
females. I'm getting a headache already because I won't even notice the
difference next kitten season-- 100x more than that will still be born.

The HSUS estimate of 420,000 cats from one female and her offspring is a
gross exaggeration because a lot of the kittens wouldn't survive to
breeding
age.



I still can't get over those gorgeous fatties. You may have to adjust
your
trap settings! ;-)

Look at this handsome devil! He was adopted within an hour on his first
day
at the store!

http://maxshouse.com/Rescues/hald_or...abby-01-sm.jpg



He's gorgeous!!! Reminds me of a kitty we had years ago. He was one of those
cats that you never really get over losing.

W