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#21
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?
Tony is out of town, I had planned on a nice, quiet weekend, but now I'm all stressed! *Any words of wisdom? Candace p.s. I do feel sorry for the poor hamster, too, but I'm mostly concerned about ME! 2 Questions.. Does Ebony have his rabies shots? Did you scrub out the wound really thoroughly with something like betadine or hibiscrub? If yes, you'll probably be absolutely fine. Just my $0.02, but I'm sending calming purrs and hugs anyway!! Helen M |
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?
wrote in message ... On Mar 14, 10:10 pm, "MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote: Ebony is an outdoor cat as are all the other 10 or so out there. He can't come inside, he hasn't been tested for FeLv or anything. Candace, I doubt if the hamster would be a source of rabies, although it is theoretically possible. However, you do handle feral cats (not just Ebony), and you have stated that you have been bitten on several occasions. Therefore, I think you would be at far greater risk from one of the cats since they are not vaccinated. People who are "at risk"--such as veterinarians--do often get rabies shots as a preventative. I suggest that you check into that, and ask how long the immunization would last if you get the rabies shots. My understanding is that the rabies shots of today are pretty painful (but not nearly so much as the ones of years ago when they were given in the abdomen), and it is a series of shots rather than just one. I also don't know if it is the same vaccination when given pre-exposure and post-exposure, but it does sound like you would be a good candidate to get the shots as a *prevention* even if the incident with the hamster turns out not to involve rabies (which is what I would exect, speaking as a non-professional). You cannot tell if one of the feral cats has come into contact with some other animal as a source of rabies just by "looking" at them, so it really might be a good idea for you to have a serious discussion of that possibility with your veterinarian and your own physician. Incidentally, I greatly admire the work you do with feral cats and I am *not* trying to throw fear into you about them--just a suggestion that you might want the same type of preventative rabies innoculation as vets and their assistants often get. MaryL |
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?
Oh, geez, Candace - I'm so sorry about your bite - I wouldn't be worrying
about the hamster as I think that it's having rabies is highly unlikely; however, you really need to take those antibiotics for your cat bite asap - (I've unfortunately had to go in for cat bites, too, and they can go bad really quickly. There were a couple of times I also had to get a shot of Rocephin (another potent antibiotic) in the derrierre in addition to the Augmentin!) You want to soak that thumb a lot! My doctor told me to use Epsom salt in hot water but be sure to add some liquid soap like Dawn in the soaking pot so the wound will stay open and drain. You don't want it to close up - I found that Nexcare "Comfort" brand bandaids are the best for protecting the wound but keeping it from closing up. Nexcare makes a lot of different types of bandaids but that brand is the the one I recommend from my experience. Hope this helps -- purrs for your hand! Christine "Candace" wrote in message ... This morning, I noticed Ebony, one of the sweet outdoor cats playing with something in the yard. I went out and he had some sort of rodent (I'm not a rodent expert) that he was batting around that wasn't dead. My natural instinct was to get him away from it so I grabbed him and tossed him into a small room briefly--big mistake as his formerly feral ways returned and he bit the beejesus out of my thumb. Okay, I'm a psycho worrier. I called one of my vet practices (one was distinctly unhelpful and it's the one I've been using the most lately, makes me reconsider). I got the wounded but living rodent into a coffee can without touching it at all. They identified it as a hamster that seemed neglected--either by having been out in the wild for awhile for just a bad home--as it's claws were long. I got myself into a tizzy worrying that this critter might have been exposed to rabies, Ebony chewed on the hamster, and then a few minutes later Ebony passed it onto me. I went to an Urgent Care place and got a tetanus shot and some abx, whihc I'm not going to take as nothing appears infected at this time. The doctor really didn't have answers to any of my questions. He thought I had maybe a 1 percent chance of contracting rabies. I asked--wouldn't there be an incubation period in Ebony before he could pass it to me and the doctor said--well, what if he had hamster blood on his teeth when he bit you (he also scratched me several places). So I've been reading up, of course. Hamsters rarely get rabies but who knows how long this hamster has been outside. The hamster, btw, was euthanized and its body is in the freezer at the vet's. The doctor told me to call the Dept. of Public Health on Monday and ask them what they think and since the body is available it cold be tested if they would do that. So, I know none of you probably know the answer either but do you think I need the shots and I wonder if they would give them to me or if they're just going to say--oh, no big deal, don't worry--and refuse to administer them to me. Rabies sounds like a horrible way to go and it's always fatal if you get it. Keep in mind, I have absolutely *no* concerns about Ebony having rabies prior to this event. He took off horrified. I'm sure he'll come back to eat at some point but he was traumatized. I should have just let him eat and kill the thing, at least I wouldn't be worrying about myself now. I don't know if rabies is around in wild animals here. I live in a very urban area of Phoenix. There are no large wild animals--no coyotes, foxes around here--but I've seen bats flying around sometimes, we have gophers, moles, and roof rats are in the area. How do I know the hamster didn't have a run-in with one of those animals? And no one is going to know for sure, I suppose. Maybe the Public Health Dept. will know if there has been any rabies in my neighborhood among wild animals or maybe they'll be totally unhelpful, as most govt. agencies are. Tony is out of town, I had planned on a nice, quiet weekend, but now I'm all stressed! Any words of wisdom? Candace p.s. I do feel sorry for the poor hamster, too, but I'm mostly concerned about ME! |
#24
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?
Candace,
I live in Albuquerque as you know and unfortunately, Animal Control here gets involved everytime there's a cat bite report and the urgent care people make you fill one out before you can get treated. If Animal Control here finds out that a cat has bitten you and it is not vaccinated the cat has to be caught and quarantined for 10 days at one of their approved facilities. So to be honest, I'd be worried they'd do that to Ebony. It's what happened to Tucker when I "met" him and got royally bitten; luckily, Animal Control let me quarantine him at my vets for 10 days. I can't help but think that your Animal Control people are going to go after Ebony rather than worry about the hamster as it was Ebony who bit you and if Ebony is not vaccinated they will consider her bite an exposure - you might want to check into the incidence of rabies among local cat populations are in your area by talking to some of the cat rescue groups. Here the incidence of rabies in cats is almost nonexistent. Christine wrote in message ... On Mar 14, 10:22 pm, "22brix" wrote: wrote in message ... On Mar 14, 9:23 pm, "22brix" wrote: Hi Candace, Unlurking a bit here. I am a microbiologist and I used to work in a Public Health Lab--I used to do Rabies testing all the time. Rodents, including hamsters, are considered to be a very low threat for Rabies and testing is almost never recommended. I can't give you a precise percentage but I would say it's much less than 1 percent. Is Ebony vaccinated? If he is, I don't think you really need to worry. The determination to either test for rabies or to get treated is partly dependent on the circumstances. If this were considered to be an unprovoked attack (if he had chased you down and bitten you) I would be a lot more concerned. As it is, Ebony was protecting his prize and it would be considered a provoked attack. No one can say that you have a zero risk of getting rabies but I think it is extremely low. Rabies is found primarily in the brain/nervous tissue and in the saliva, not so much in the blood. Unfortunately, testing the kitty means the cat would have to be euthanized (or possibly quarantined for 10 days or so). Post exposure treatment is not as bad as it used to be but still isn't much fun and is very expensive. Even if you live in an urban area, there can still be animals that are rabid--I would be much more concerned if you'd been bitten by a bat. Bats are notorious for being rabid--almost all of the cases of human deaths from rabies in the US are traced to bat rabies. I am much more concerned about you getting a very very nasty infection from Ebony's bite. Cat bites can cause hideous infections and can be very difficult to treat, especially if it is a deep bite. If I were you, I would try not too stress too much, call your Public Health Department and see what they have to say. And, get that bite treated!! Maybe the Doc can give you an antibiotic that isn't so hard on your tummy!! All the best, Bonnie PS Here's a link to CDC. It has some good info. http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/exposure/types.html Thank you, Bonnie. Unfortunately, Ebony is not vaccinated. I don't see why he should have to be quarantined or euthanized and tested when I have the hamster body. IF Ebony were tested now, he'd be negative, too. I don't know why I can't just have the shots for peace of mind. I handle stray cats a lot so it wouldn't be for naught. I'm worried the hamster might have been bitten by a bat or something. I guess I just won't have peace of mind unless I can have the shots and I probably can't get them since no one cares. Thank you, I'll talk to Public Health Monday. Candace I guess I didn't make myself very clear!! I don't think you need to worry about the hamster carrying rabies. Even if the hamster did have rabies, it's not likely it would be transmitted through the blood (more likely transmitted through nervous tissue and saliva). I'm not sure how beneficial testing the hamster would be. There is a remote chance that Ebony could be rabid from a previous exposure--that sounds extremely unlikely. The main reason for quarantining him is that HE bit you (not the hamster) and is considered a higher risk animal than the hamster is. By quarantining him, his behavior can be observed and if he continues to act normal during the entire quarantine period he should be fine (and by extension you would, too). I would rather quarantine than euthanize!! Again, I think it is highly unlikely that either Ebony or the hamster is rabid. I don't know what the regulations regarding quarantine (and/or post exposure) are in Arizona--it might be different than in California. You should be able to insist on having the rabies shots--it is the only way you will have complete peace of mind. Even if the Public Health department didn't think it necessary I don't know why they wouldn't give them to you. I think you might find the Public Health department will care!! That's their job--to protect the health of the public. It may surprise some people, but most of the public health people I know do care, a lot!! I hope this helps!! Bonnie Thanks, Bonnie. If Ebony had just bit me for some other reason, no hamster involved, I wouldn't even be concerned. We have umpteen stray cats around and I've been bitten before when picking them up. I've never seen a sick-looking one and I wouldn't even be thinking about rabies. The hamster is the only reason I'm concerned...because I don't know where he came from, how long he was out in the wild, what other animal might have bitten him. We've had roof rats around here in the past, I see bats at dusk sometimes. What if one of them nipped the hamster recently? I know--I sound insane, I tend to obsess once I'm upset about something. Why wouldn't it be beneficial to test the hamster? I hope I can get the shots! Thanks. |
#25
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?
On 2009-03-15, Candace wrote:
The hamster, btw, was euthanized and its body is in the freezer at the vet's. The doctor told me to call the Dept. of Public Health on Monday and ask them what they think and since the body is available it cold be tested if they would do that. The health department should give you the correct advice. I was surprised to find out that 40,000 people get anti-rabies vaccine annually in the US. http://www.fda.gov/consumer/updates/...ine102207.html Bud |
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?
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#27
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?
wrote in message ... On Mar 14, 10:22 pm, "22brix" wrote: wrote in message ... On Mar 14, 9:23 pm, "22brix" wrote: Thanks, Bonnie. If Ebony had just bit me for some other reason, no hamster involved, I wouldn't even be concerned. We have umpteen stray cats around and I've been bitten before when picking them up. I've never seen a sick-looking one and I wouldn't even be thinking about rabies. The hamster is the only reason I'm concerned...because I don't know where he came from, how long he was out in the wild, what other animal might have bitten him. We've had roof rats around here in the past, I see bats at dusk sometimes. What if one of them nipped the hamster recently? I know--I sound insane, I tend to obsess once I'm upset about something. Why wouldn't it be beneficial to test the hamster? I hope I can get the shots! Thanks. Hi Candace, Don't feel bad about obsessing!! Rabies isn't something to be complacent about and it's not a pleasant way to die! In your situation however I don't think it's at all likely that you have to worry about rabies. In rodents the disease progresses so fast they die before they have a chance to spread it. To my knowledge, in the US there have been no cases of human rabies due to rodent bites. Your chance of getting rabies from the hamster is practically zero. You are more at risk of getting rabies from the feral cats you take care of (may Bast bless you for your care of them!!). Also, remember the hamster didn't bite you--the virus is carried in the nerves, brain tissue and saliva, not really in the blood. Testing the hamster might give you some peace of mind but rabies (at least from the hamster) is not much of a risk in this event--getting a bacterial infection IS. One bit of advice; I shouldn't be saying this but if you report that Ebony bit you, it is possible that Animal Control would seize him and euthanize and test him for rabies since he's not vaccinated. Rules are different in different places, some areas would allow him to be quarantined but some jurisdictions would probably elect to have him euthanized, even without your consent. I know you are more concerned about rabies from the hamster, but I can almost guarantee you that the health department is going to be more concerned that you were bitten by an unvaccinated cat. I really, really shouldn't be saying this but to protect him you might want to fib a little as to the identity of the biting animal so they don't try to get him. From your description I don't think he is rabid, either, any more than the hamster would be. Someone suggested getting the rabies vaccine--I think it's an excellent idea, specially since you are exposed to a lot of unvaccinated cats. It would probably be less expensive in the long run than vaccinating every stray you take care of!! Those of us in the lab working directly with rabies infected brain tissue received a vaccine, got at least one booster and then a blood test was taken to determine the level of rabies antibodies in our blood. If you do get a bite, you would still need some post-exposure shot(s) but not as many than if you hadn't had the vaccine to begin with. In my county (I worked at the county level) the only way you could get the shots was through the health department, not through the hospital or doctor's offices; it might be different in Arizona. In this particular instance my main concern for you is a possible bacterial infection from Ebony's bite. You have a much higher chance of getting a severe infection than from rabies, either from the hamster or from Ebony. I would talk to the Health Department and follow their advice--they can assess your risk better than anyone else can. Good luck, let us know how things work out! Bonnie |
#28
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?
On Mar 15, 5:14*pm, "22brix" wrote:
wrote in message ... On Mar 14, 10:22 pm, "22brix" wrote: wrote in message .... On Mar 14, 9:23 pm, "22brix" wrote: Thanks, Bonnie. *If Ebony had just bit me for some other reason, no hamster involved, I wouldn't even be concerned. *We have umpteen stray cats around and I've been bitten before when picking them up. *I've never seen a sick-looking one and I wouldn't even be thinking about rabies. *The hamster is the only reason I'm concerned...because I don't know where he came from, how long he was out in the wild, what other animal might have bitten him. *We've had roof rats around here in the past, I see bats at dusk sometimes. *What if one of them nipped the hamster recently? I know--I sound insane, I tend to obsess once I'm upset about something. *Why wouldn't it be beneficial to test the hamster? I hope I can get the shots! Thanks. Hi Candace, Don't feel bad about obsessing!! *Rabies isn't something to be complacent about and it's not a pleasant way to die! *In your situation however I don't think it's at all likely that you have to worry about rabies. In rodents the disease progresses so fast they die before they have a chance to spread it. To my knowledge, in the US there have been no cases of human rabies due to rodent bites. *Your chance of getting rabies from the hamster is practically zero. * You are more at risk of getting rabies from the feral cats you take care of (may Bast bless you for your care of them!!). *Also, remember the hamster didn't bite you--the virus is carried in the nerves, brain tissue and saliva, not really in the blood. *Testing the hamster might give you some peace of mind but rabies (at least from the hamster) is not much of a risk in this event--getting a bacterial infection IS. One bit of advice; I shouldn't be saying this but if you report that Ebony bit you, it is possible that Animal Control would seize him and euthanize and test him for rabies since he's not vaccinated. *Rules are different in different places, some areas would allow him to be quarantined but *some jurisdictions would probably elect to have him euthanized, even without your consent. *I know you are more concerned about rabies from the hamster, but I can almost guarantee you that the health department is going to be more concerned that you were bitten by an unvaccinated cat. I really, really shouldn't be saying this but to protect him you might want to fib a little as to the identity of the biting animal so they don't try to get him. *From your description I don't think he is rabid, either, any more than the hamster would be. Someone suggested getting the rabies vaccine--I think it's an excellent idea, specially since you are exposed to a lot of unvaccinated cats. *It would probably be less expensive in the long run than vaccinating every stray you take care of!! Those of us in the lab working directly with rabies infected brain tissue received a vaccine, got at least one booster and then a blood test was taken to determine the level of rabies antibodies in our blood. *If you do get a bite, you would still need some post-exposure shot(s) *but not as many than if you hadn't had the vaccine to begin with. In my county (I worked at the county level) the only way you could get the shots was through the health department, not through the hospital or doctor's offices; it might be different in Arizona. In this particular instance *my main concern for you is a possible bacterial infection from Ebony's bite. *You have a much higher chance of getting a severe infection than from rabies, either from the hamster or from Ebony. *I would talk to the Health Department and follow their advice--they can assess your risk better than anyone else can. Good luck, let us know how things work out! Bonnie Thanks, I was going to fib about Ebony's identity. We have umpteen stray cats around our neighborhood anyway, they'd have a hard time getting them all. I was going to say I hadn't seen the cat again (even though I've certainly seen Ebony and so far, he's fine). If Ebony is okay in 10 days, does that mean he didn't get infected from the hamster? One thing I read said the quarantine period is 10 days; another said 6 months! That's quite a difference. Rabies vaccines for cats is not the law in AZ. Of course, it's encouraged but it's not a law as it is for dogs. I would think the great majority of people here (taking into account low income people) who have indoor/outdoor cats probably do not keep their rabies vaccines current, if they get them at all. My own indoor cats have them, just in case, and the outdoor cats I have had fixed so far have them but the majority of my strays do not yet. I believe the incidence of rabies in cats in Maricopa County is either very, very low or nil. A few years ago, I read that there had not been a case in cats in 20 some years but that was a few years ago that I read that and don't know the current situation. Perhaps Public Health can give me that info tomorrow. Thanks for your wealth of knowledge in this area. Candace |
#29
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?/Bonnie
On Mar 15, 7:26*pm, wrote:
Thanks, I was going to fib about Ebony's identity. *We have umpteen stray cats around our neighborhood anyway, they'd have a hard time getting them all. *I was going to say I hadn't seen the cat again (even though I've certainly seen Ebony and so far, he's fine). *If Ebony is okay in 10 days, does that mean he didn't get infected from the hamster? *One thing I read said the quarantine period is 10 days; another said 6 months! *That's quite a difference. Rabies vaccines for cats is not the law in AZ. Of course, it's encouraged but it's not a law as it is for dogs. *I would think the great majority of people here (taking into account low income people) who have indoor/outdoor cats probably do not keep their rabies vaccines current, if they get them at all. *My own indoor cats have them, just in case, and the outdoor cats I have had fixed so far have them but the majority of my strays do not yet. *I believe the incidence of rabies in cats in Maricopa County is either very, very low or nil. *A few years ago, I read that there had not been a case in cats in 20 some years but that was a few years ago that I read that and don't know the current situation. *Perhaps Public Health can give me that info tomorrow. Thanks for your wealth of knowledge in this area. Candace Bonnie, I just found this info online from the AZ Dept. of Health Services Rabies Manual. I think Public Health is a different agency so will still call them tomorrow: Rodents and rabbits in Arizona are at extremely low risk for rabies infection. There has never been a rodent in the state of Arizona that has tested positive for rabies. Rodents/rabbits should not be submitted for rabies testing unless there was human exposure and the rodent was exhibiting neurological signs. (See page 17 for guidelines on submission of wild rodents/rabbits.)1) Domesticated rodents (i.e. guinea pigs, hamsters, gerbils, mice, and white rats) purchased from pet shops, raised in controlled captive breeding situations, and never exposed to carnivorous animals or bats do not pose risk of rabies infection. 2) Wild rodents in Arizona are at very low risk of rabies infection. 3) Quarantining rodents for rabies observation is unwarranted and rabies testing of wild rodents is offered only in limited circumstances. Call your local animal control agency or the Arizona Department of Health Services (602) 364-4562 with questions. 4) Bites to humans inflicted by rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, rats, and mice, seldom if ever, call for rabies prophylaxis. All animal bites should be thoroughly cleaned and watched for infection. As with other puncture wounds, tetanus immunization may be warranted. Doesn't sound like they'll probably test the hamster... Candace |
#30
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Help--Am I at Risk for Rabies?
wrote in message ... On Mar 15, 5:14 pm, "22brix" wrote: wrote in message ... On Mar 14, 10:22 pm, "22brix" wrote: wrote in message ... On Mar 14, 9:23 pm, "22brix" wrote: Thanks, I was going to fib about Ebony's identity. We have umpteen stray cats around our neighborhood anyway, they'd have a hard time getting them all. I was going to say I hadn't seen the cat again (even though I've certainly seen Ebony and so far, he's fine). If Ebony is okay in 10 days, does that mean he didn't get infected from the hamster? One thing I read said the quarantine period is 10 days; another said 6 months! That's quite a difference. Rabies vaccines for cats is not the law in AZ. Of course, it's encouraged but it's not a law as it is for dogs. I would think the great majority of people here (taking into account low income people) who have indoor/outdoor cats probably do not keep their rabies vaccines current, if they get them at all. My own indoor cats have them, just in case, and the outdoor cats I have had fixed so far have them but the majority of my strays do not yet. I believe the incidence of rabies in cats in Maricopa County is either very, very low or nil. A few years ago, I read that there had not been a case in cats in 20 some years but that was a few years ago that I read that and don't know the current situation. Perhaps Public Health can give me that info tomorrow. Thanks for your wealth of knowledge in this area. Candace For a vaccinated cat it's a shorter quarantine--about 10 days and depending on the regulations for the area sometimes they will let you quarantine the animal at home. In an unvaccinated cat it is about 6 months. Unfortunately for unvaccinated cats, the choice, if there is one, is a 6 month incubation or more often, euthanasia so the animal can be tested for rabies. Quarantine would be in a secure facility and is very expensive so many people opt for euthanasia. If Ebony had symptoms or abnormal behavior, believe me, my advice would be completely different; as hard as it would be I would then recommend testing. I wish there were someway to test these animals without killing them--we saw many animals being euthanized for trivial reasons (to us in the lab) and being an animal lover it was very difficult. It wasn't the lab's decision; one of the most upsetting cases I remember was a St. Bernard that slobbered on a child--St. Bernards drool and it just was so awful. That's why I would recommend quarantine if there is no behavioral basis for testing. As far as Ebony getting rabies from the hamster you really don't need to worry about it. If it helps your peace of mind, ask them to test it. We wouldn't refuse to test low risk animals if someone really wanted it--sometimes that's what it takes to make someone feel better about the whole thing. There are protocols that each health department follows--based on the recommendations from the CDC. People were not charged (in our jurisdiction) if it fit the protocol (unprovoked attack, high risk animal, type of exposure. etc) Testing would be done on other animals that didn't meet the definition but the person requesting testing would have to pay. My concern for Ebony is that not being vaccinated, the Health Department would probably want to euthanize and test him. Their responsibility is first and foremost the well-being of humans. They have certain protocols that they have to follow. And since he is unvaccinated he is at greater risk for getting rabies. I'm sure you have bats flying around and even in an urban area you will find bats and cats are fascinated with them! Well, I've been babbling long enough. Hope all goes well! I still think it's a good idea to get vaccinated since you work with so many cats. Bonnie |
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