Vet not detecting pregnancy

In , Cheryl
wrote:
| Arjun Ray dumped this in
| on 26 Mar 2004:
|
|| In Arjun's case that he posted, I'd be torn.
|
| Actually, the decision was even harder than I indicated.
|
| I don't even want to know. Those decisions are personal ones based on
| the greater good *at the time* regardless of what you find out later.

The caretaker of the colony (a good friend of mine) agonized for a few
hours and then decided to release her. The odds were very much against
any of the litter surviving - and the consensus among colleagues was to
stick to the original plan of keeping her - but my friend just couldn't
stomach the idea of abandoning a litter so cold-bloodedly. I don't
blame her. In some sense, it was all our fault - for not having tried
hard enough to catch her earlier. (As a matter of fact among my her
cats are two of this cat's littermates, caught as kittens the summer
before.) It might have been different if we had a chance of locating
the litter ourselves (as Sharon posted) but we couldn't - the litter was
obviously inside an abandoned building that the city had sealed off very
efficiently (to keep homeless people out.)

Well, one kitten survived.

We nearly didn't do right by him either. He was over 3 months old when
we finally got around to catching him. He's my cat Phoenix.

You can see pictures of Ollie (the mother) at

http://www.picturetrail.com/aray/

The albums "Ferals", "Colony 1", and "In Transit". Phoenix has an album
to himself ("The Little One") but he's in many. The title page picture
of the "Ferals" album is one of Ollie (with another cat). It was taken
in late February 2002, when she must have been nearing term.

| In Summer '02, we helped the ASPCA clear out a collector's apartment.
| (This aired as part of episode #214 on the Animal Precinct show, btw.)

| Ya know, I never saw that episode and I watched for it for a long time.

You missed it again - they aired a rerun last week. (I found out only
from a hysterical message on my answering machine "Hey, Arjun, I saw you
on TV!!!").

Arjun Ray dumped this in
on 26 Mar 2004:

Well, one kitten survived.

We nearly didn't do right by him either. He was over 3 months old
when we finally got around to catching him. He's my cat Phoenix.

) He is very loved I already know. sigh

You can see pictures of Ollie (the mother) at

http://www.picturetrail.com/aray/

[Going to check out pics]

| Ya know, I never saw that episode and I watched for it for a long
| time.

You missed it again - they aired a rerun last week. (I found out only
from a hysterical message on my answering machine "Hey, Arjun, I saw
you on TV!!!").

LOL I can picture that.. hehe. Anyone I know? LOL Since AP has added
so many animal rescue shows I haven't watched many of them. They are all
sad, but some have happy endings, but the sad ones I just can't deal
with at this point in my life.

--
Cheryl

Arjun Ray dumped this in
on 26 Mar 2004:

Well, one kitten survived.

We nearly didn't do right by him either. He was over 3 months old
when we finally got around to catching him. He's my cat Phoenix.

) He is very loved I already know. sigh

You can see pictures of Ollie (the mother) at

http://www.picturetrail.com/aray/

[Going to check out pics]

| Ya know, I never saw that episode and I watched for it for a long
| time.

You missed it again - they aired a rerun last week. (I found out only
from a hysterical message on my answering machine "Hey, Arjun, I saw
you on TV!!!").

LOL I can picture that.. hehe. Anyone I know? LOL Since AP has added
so many animal rescue shows I haven't watched many of them. They are all
sad, but some have happy endings, but the sad ones I just can't deal
with at this point in my life.

--
Cheryl

In ,
itter (MacCandace) wrote:

| Dave Nora, I believe is his name, said something to me to the effect of
| the more animals you help, the more mistakes you make.

How true.

| [...] sometimes something bad would happen but he had the greater good
| in mind. Of course, it's so sad and tragic for the ones it happens to
| but I guess it's just in the numbers.

And in the occasional happy endings.

Last Summer, we did a project at Brookdale Hospital in eastern Brooklyn.
While trapping about 20 cats, we noticed that one cat, maybe 5-6 months
old, probably wasn't well. She just sat there at the base of a tree (in
the garden that was the colony's "home" behind one of the buildings),
completely ignoring us, the traps and the commotion. Eventually we went
around to her and were able to pick her up and put her in a trap.

This was an unexpected contingency - a medical case. The vet lined up
by the colony caretakers wasn't in that day. And there was a problem in
keeping this cat along with the others in the holding/recovery area - an
enclosed space - overnight (the ASPCA mobile S/N van was coming the next
day.) Nobody seemed to know any reliable vets in the area.

Then I remembered Dr Jon Hunziker, whose clinic was several miles away.
He's an ophthalomology expert (refered to from all over city) but he
also runs a regular vet practice. So we called him, and he agreed to an
appointment at such short notice. I took the cat over, and had to wait
several hours. Hunziker examined her thoroughly and opined that this
was not a URI case as it initially looked. The slimmest of clues - she
was dehydrated, the chest seemed clear, stool smear somewhat runny but
no sign of coccidia - and he diagnosed probable distemper. The cat
would die without fluids and constant monitoring. I have unbounded
respect for Dr Hunziker - he is a great vet IMO - so I believed him.

Another round of phone calls and the Animal Kind clinic in Park Slope
(quite a distance away) was willing to take a look at her, besides
having the facilities. They closed for the day at 7 pm, we got there at
6:55. The staff vet thought it was a URI. We insisted that it was
probably something more serious, please put her on fluids right now and
keep her isolated and under observation overnight. They called back the
next day. Yes, the signs were clearer now: it probably was distemper.

She pulled through.

In ,
itter (MacCandace) wrote:

| Dave Nora, I believe is his name, said something to me to the effect of
| the more animals you help, the more mistakes you make.

How true.

| [...] sometimes something bad would happen but he had the greater good
| in mind. Of course, it's so sad and tragic for the ones it happens to
| but I guess it's just in the numbers.

And in the occasional happy endings.

Last Summer, we did a project at Brookdale Hospital in eastern Brooklyn.
While trapping about 20 cats, we noticed that one cat, maybe 5-6 months
old, probably wasn't well. She just sat there at the base of a tree (in
the garden that was the colony's "home" behind one of the buildings),
completely ignoring us, the traps and the commotion. Eventually we went
around to her and were able to pick her up and put her in a trap.

This was an unexpected contingency - a medical case. The vet lined up
by the colony caretakers wasn't in that day. And there was a problem in
keeping this cat along with the others in the holding/recovery area - an
enclosed space - overnight (the ASPCA mobile S/N van was coming the next
day.) Nobody seemed to know any reliable vets in the area.

Then I remembered Dr Jon Hunziker, whose clinic was several miles away.
He's an ophthalomology expert (refered to from all over city) but he
also runs a regular vet practice. So we called him, and he agreed to an
appointment at such short notice. I took the cat over, and had to wait
several hours. Hunziker examined her thoroughly and opined that this
was not a URI case as it initially looked. The slimmest of clues - she
was dehydrated, the chest seemed clear, stool smear somewhat runny but
no sign of coccidia - and he diagnosed probable distemper. The cat
would die without fluids and constant monitoring. I have unbounded
respect for Dr Hunziker - he is a great vet IMO - so I believed him.

Another round of phone calls and the Animal Kind clinic in Park Slope
(quite a distance away) was willing to take a look at her, besides
having the facilities. They closed for the day at 7 pm, we got there at
6:55. The staff vet thought it was a URI. We insisted that it was
probably something more serious, please put her on fluids right now and
keep her isolated and under observation overnight. They called back the
next day. Yes, the signs were clearer now: it probably was distemper.

She pulled through.

In ngton.edu, Sharon
Talbert wrote:

| It is upsetting to catch a lactating cat. I am still conflicted on
| what to do in such a case and would be interested in seeing some
| debate

It's a tough call.

| If we discover a cat is nursing, we go on a treasure hunt for the
| kittens, who are bound to be close by.

When feasible, this is the best option. But too often (in NYC at least)
it isn't. Getting into abandoned buildings - a typical scenario - is a
tricky business at best, and could be downright dangerous. Blind alleys
behind buildings are another problem case: the only way in may through
some building, but what if the super isn't cooperative?

| I know of other rescuers who have no compunction about trapping a
| lactating momcat, holding her overnight after spay, then releasing
| her to tend her kittens. In most cases, the kittens survive. But
| then our weather is on the temperate side.

Weather aside, this can be a reasonable risk given other conditions.
Primarily, the spay needs to have been done by experts - releasing the
mother too early could be fatal to her, never mind the litter, so the
quality of the surgery could count for a lot. (In this regard, I tend
to trust high-volume operations like the Humane Society Of New York or
the ASPCA much more than any neighborhood vet.)

But there are other problems, mainly logistical. We tend to trap in
advance, over at least two days, because the given we have to work with
is the pre-arranged S/N appointment. The HS has made exceptions for us
on short notice, but we can't bank on it. So what if one catches a
lactating cat with the appointment still a couple of days away?

For the Rikers Island project in 02, where we were regularly trapping in
advance, we went in with the policy that we would take our chances with
the litter rather than let the momcat go immediately (hoping to catch
her later, that is.) We knew we were getting good surgeons for the mass
spay/neuter, so we had a reasonable assurance that letting a cat go 24
hours after the spay - even though we didn't like the idea too much -
wouldn't be a poor risk.

In our case, we've learned the hard way that letting compassion get the
better of us doesn't go well in the aftermath. We had the following
experience with another cat, one we call Tortimom (and who happens to be
the mother of my cat Marie.)

At one point in Winter 01-02, Tortimom was definitely pregnant. We
tried for her, with no success. At some point in early February, she
showed up for a meal, obviously not pregnant. About a week later, while
trying for another cat, my friend Meredith (the same who released Ollie)
caught Tortimom.

And let her go, knowing how young the litter was. (Well, at least Marie
is alive today as a result of that decision.)

Tortimom went on to have two more litters over the next year before we
caught her again. We didn't get all of the kittens in time either.
Tortimom's daughter Little White Running Feet went on to have two
litters of her own before we got her. And in that last litter of hers,
all five kittens were female!

It's debatable, but I'm on the side of spay and release rather than
hoping to catch a cat again later.

In ngton.edu, Sharon
Talbert wrote:

| It is upsetting to catch a lactating cat. I am still conflicted on
| what to do in such a case and would be interested in seeing some
| debate

It's a tough call.

| If we discover a cat is nursing, we go on a treasure hunt for the
| kittens, who are bound to be close by.

When feasible, this is the best option. But too often (in NYC at least)
it isn't. Getting into abandoned buildings - a typical scenario - is a
tricky business at best, and could be downright dangerous. Blind alleys
behind buildings are another problem case: the only way in may through
some building, but what if the super isn't cooperative?

| I know of other rescuers who have no compunction about trapping a
| lactating momcat, holding her overnight after spay, then releasing
| her to tend her kittens. In most cases, the kittens survive. But
| then our weather is on the temperate side.

Weather aside, this can be a reasonable risk given other conditions.
Primarily, the spay needs to have been done by experts - releasing the
mother too early could be fatal to her, never mind the litter, so the
quality of the surgery could count for a lot. (In this regard, I tend
to trust high-volume operations like the Humane Society Of New York or
the ASPCA much more than any neighborhood vet.)

But there are other problems, mainly logistical. We tend to trap in
advance, over at least two days, because the given we have to work with
is the pre-arranged S/N appointment. The HS has made exceptions for us
on short notice, but we can't bank on it. So what if one catches a
lactating cat with the appointment still a couple of days away?

For the Rikers Island project in 02, where we were regularly trapping in
advance, we went in with the policy that we would take our chances with
the litter rather than let the momcat go immediately (hoping to catch
her later, that is.) We knew we were getting good surgeons for the mass
spay/neuter, so we had a reasonable assurance that letting a cat go 24
hours after the spay - even though we didn't like the idea too much -
wouldn't be a poor risk.

In our case, we've learned the hard way that letting compassion get the
better of us doesn't go well in the aftermath. We had the following
experience with another cat, one we call Tortimom (and who happens to be
the mother of my cat Marie.)

At one point in Winter 01-02, Tortimom was definitely pregnant. We
tried for her, with no success. At some point in early February, she
showed up for a meal, obviously not pregnant. About a week later, while
trying for another cat, my friend Meredith (the same who released Ollie)
caught Tortimom.

And let her go, knowing how young the litter was. (Well, at least Marie
is alive today as a result of that decision.)

Tortimom went on to have two more litters over the next year before we
caught her again. We didn't get all of the kittens in time either.
Tortimom's daughter Little White Running Feet went on to have two
litters of her own before we got her. And in that last litter of hers,
all five kittens were female!

It's debatable, but I'm on the side of spay and release rather than
hoping to catch a cat again later.