Bad Neighbors & Morganna Update

I'm an INFP.
snip
More flies with honey and all that...
Yowie

I am an INFP also. The definition is a Healer, and I guess that is a good
way to describe me. I hate being in the center of things, and would rather
soothe than confront. (though I can be very blunt when I need to!) One of
my co-workers said yesterday that things seem to go much smoother and be
calmer when I am there. They come into my office and talk to me about
things, and I try to help them find solutions, or in some cases, just
listen. That is the best thing to do,
usually.

Sorry if this seems a bit disjointed - I have a migraine starting and my
brain isn't processing too well!

Patti

I'm an INFP.
snip
More flies with honey and all that...
Yowie

I am an INFP also. The definition is a Healer, and I guess that is a good
way to describe me. I hate being in the center of things, and would rather
soothe than confront. (though I can be very blunt when I need to!) One of
my co-workers said yesterday that things seem to go much smoother and be
calmer when I am there. They come into my office and talk to me about
things, and I try to help them find solutions, or in some cases, just
listen. That is the best thing to do,
usually.

Sorry if this seems a bit disjointed - I have a migraine starting and my
brain isn't processing too well!

Patti

On Thu, 30 Sep, Patti wrote:

---------------------snip----------------------
Sorry if this seems a bit disjointed - I have a migraine starting and my
brain isn't processing too well!

Purrs that the migraine misses you. No one should have to suffer that
way.

Regards and the best sort of Purrs,
O J

On Thu, 30 Sep, Patti wrote:

---------------------snip----------------------
Sorry if this seems a bit disjointed - I have a migraine starting and my
brain isn't processing too well!

Purrs that the migraine misses you. No one should have to suffer that
way.

Regards and the best sort of Purrs,
O J

Many, many purrs for your success in talking with the new owners,
Ginger-lyn. I'm glad some of the suggestions were useful -- positive
problem-solving has always been my preference. Would you like CatNipped and
any of us others to post what ideas we have on the following (so you could
take it with you?):

How clawed and declawed kitties have lived successfully together --
My personal experience was that I never had a problem -- I had Frodo (my
first and last cat that was ever declawed) who lived with Cowboy and Shetra
for years and years and all got along just fine.

I think if the lady has 2 adult declawed kitties they will "train" the
little one with claws to behave just by virtue of example and age. If they
don't use claws and just "slap" to get their point across to the little one,
the little one will learn this from them, too.

How to get cats to use scratching posts and or not use furniture/Same goes
for climbing curtains -- I've found that the more nubbly, sisal rope,
cat-tree and such surfaces I provide the better for my crew --- cats trees
with sisal are preferred by my cats because they love going up high and want
to mark these trees for their own! The cat trees made a huge difference in
our household (with 5 cats) in many ways; I'd strongly recommend this lady
try to get one or two for her household and put them by large windows and
see what great benefits both kitties and owner reap from this. (Tell her
Petsmart has some wonderful cat trees and often near the holidays will have
a special promotion on a particular cat tree that is usually an excellent
price; Costco, has in the past had a small import on cat trees near the
holidays, too, but you have to keep checking. One year, I called 4 or 5
people to tell them about these great Costco trees and everyone got one and
was quite pleased.) I have also found that spraying any vertical furniture
surfaces with Feliway spray definitely discourages their marking. I have
not tried this myself but I have seen sticky strips you can attach to
furniture to discourage kitties. I did have a cat "Shetra" who hated
aluminum foil and I did put foil on some places he liked to scratch till he
got retrained to use other places.

I hope all this will help you, Ginger-lyn. I encourage others to post their
ideas.
Christine




"Ginger-lyn Summer" wrote in message
...
Ever since I have been on Usenet, I have made it a personal policy, as
a general rule, to never respond to trolls, stalkers, or those who
simply want to cause a flamewar. So I hope you will understand why I
have not responded until this point.

I have a few things I do want to say about all this, though.

First, I am very sorry that a couple of my posts have brought some
tension here. Most of you here know me, many for years, and know that
I would never intentionally cause discord or try to harm the group in
any way. This group is very special to me; here, we share laughter
and tears, stories and support, and that compassion, caring and
understanding is part of what I love about this group. It is sad that
not everyone understands what we have here.

Thank you so much to those of you who rose to my defense and to those
who offered suggestions. It means a great deal to me.

As has been surmised, no, I am not the most assertive person in the
world, although I do have my moments. I try to be fair, reasonable
and adult in most things by seeing the whole picture and acting with
compassion, decency and kindness. I'm not saying I always achieve
that; far from it. But it is the path of being that I aspire to. I
prefer to avoid confrontation where possible, and believe that
reasonable discourse is always the preferred way of interacting,
particularly in difficult situations. Unfortunately, that is not
always true of others.

As has also been surmised, I am not a "professional" rescuer, nor am I
associated with any shelter or rescue group. I am just an individual,
who has had far too many stray cats show up at my door. I have
rescued as many of them as I could. Some stayed with me, and the
others went to no-kill shelters, save a few (those being lost cats
returned home, and Morganna/Tallulah).

Morganna's case was extremely unusual and difficult, and I believe I
did the best I could. She showed no signs of abuse when I finally did
get her, although she did show signs of neglect in terms of not being
de-fleaed or fed well enough. With an imminent threat to my
home/cats/self, when a woman with fostering experience calls, I am
going to say "Wonderful!" I did not know that the fosterer believed
in declawing.

I do not know that Morganna's new humans believe in it, either. This
is an assumption that has been made, but I have no definite answer to
this. I do know that Delores, the woman who adopted her, has said
that she and her husband love her, she has a lot of toys, she has two
other cats that she gets along with fine, and that she is not
interested in giving her up.

That suggests to me a battle. And, from what - admittedly little -- I
know of Ohio law, it would be very difficult for me to retrieve her.
Particularly since I posted here that I "stole" her!

I believe the best way to deal with this is to try to educate Delores
about declawing, just in case she is inclined that way. Which is why
I downloaded information to do so. I can't just drop into her home to
give her this; I have no working car, and she lives in a far suburb
that is essentially very wealthy which means, no real bus service. I
really like the idea about finding someone from a shelter/rescue group
to go with me, and I may yet go this route. For now, however, I am
going to use my strength, which is in writing. I will send her the
information, contract and a letter. If I do not hear from her, I will
follow up in person, likely with a rescue person.

I thank those of you who are willing to make donations to a shelter to
get her back if Delores is in favor of declawing, but I just do not
see this happening. She clearly sounded like she is unwilling to give
Morganna up, and there are no shelters or rescue groups in this area
(believe me, I called/e-mailed all the ones I could find) who have
room.

I will continue, as I already have, to do the best I can for this
sweet little girl. I am not perfect, nor do I expect others to be. I
have said it before, and I will say it again. We all do the best we
can, given our situations, personalities, resources, etc. And that is
all we can do. Rabid judgmentalism has no place in this. It is,
after all, about the cats, who are, by the way, not (other than under
the law) "property". And no matter what you do - even if you have
someone sign a contract - you cannot predict or control what will
happen in the future to that cat. I cannot tell you that no cat I
ever turned over to a shelter got declawed, although I fervently hope
not. And, as Megan well knows, even a signed contract will not
necessarily prevent it from happening.

So I thank all of you again for your support and ideas. Purrs,
please, that I can get this situation happily resolved.

Ginger-lyn
(who, by the way, is an INFP)

Many, many purrs for your success in talking with the new owners,
Ginger-lyn. I'm glad some of the suggestions were useful -- positive
problem-solving has always been my preference. Would you like CatNipped and
any of us others to post what ideas we have on the following (so you could
take it with you?):

How clawed and declawed kitties have lived successfully together --
My personal experience was that I never had a problem -- I had Frodo (my
first and last cat that was ever declawed) who lived with Cowboy and Shetra
for years and years and all got along just fine.

I think if the lady has 2 adult declawed kitties they will "train" the
little one with claws to behave just by virtue of example and age. If they
don't use claws and just "slap" to get their point across to the little one,
the little one will learn this from them, too.

How to get cats to use scratching posts and or not use furniture/Same goes
for climbing curtains -- I've found that the more nubbly, sisal rope,
cat-tree and such surfaces I provide the better for my crew --- cats trees
with sisal are preferred by my cats because they love going up high and want
to mark these trees for their own! The cat trees made a huge difference in
our household (with 5 cats) in many ways; I'd strongly recommend this lady
try to get one or two for her household and put them by large windows and
see what great benefits both kitties and owner reap from this. (Tell her
Petsmart has some wonderful cat trees and often near the holidays will have
a special promotion on a particular cat tree that is usually an excellent
price; Costco, has in the past had a small import on cat trees near the
holidays, too, but you have to keep checking. One year, I called 4 or 5
people to tell them about these great Costco trees and everyone got one and
was quite pleased.) I have also found that spraying any vertical furniture
surfaces with Feliway spray definitely discourages their marking. I have
not tried this myself but I have seen sticky strips you can attach to
furniture to discourage kitties. I did have a cat "Shetra" who hated
aluminum foil and I did put foil on some places he liked to scratch till he
got retrained to use other places.

I hope all this will help you, Ginger-lyn. I encourage others to post their
ideas.
Christine




"Ginger-lyn Summer" wrote in message
...
Ever since I have been on Usenet, I have made it a personal policy, as
a general rule, to never respond to trolls, stalkers, or those who
simply want to cause a flamewar. So I hope you will understand why I
have not responded until this point.

I have a few things I do want to say about all this, though.

First, I am very sorry that a couple of my posts have brought some
tension here. Most of you here know me, many for years, and know that
I would never intentionally cause discord or try to harm the group in
any way. This group is very special to me; here, we share laughter
and tears, stories and support, and that compassion, caring and
understanding is part of what I love about this group. It is sad that
not everyone understands what we have here.

Thank you so much to those of you who rose to my defense and to those
who offered suggestions. It means a great deal to me.

As has been surmised, no, I am not the most assertive person in the
world, although I do have my moments. I try to be fair, reasonable
and adult in most things by seeing the whole picture and acting with
compassion, decency and kindness. I'm not saying I always achieve
that; far from it. But it is the path of being that I aspire to. I
prefer to avoid confrontation where possible, and believe that
reasonable discourse is always the preferred way of interacting,
particularly in difficult situations. Unfortunately, that is not
always true of others.

As has also been surmised, I am not a "professional" rescuer, nor am I
associated with any shelter or rescue group. I am just an individual,
who has had far too many stray cats show up at my door. I have
rescued as many of them as I could. Some stayed with me, and the
others went to no-kill shelters, save a few (those being lost cats
returned home, and Morganna/Tallulah).

Morganna's case was extremely unusual and difficult, and I believe I
did the best I could. She showed no signs of abuse when I finally did
get her, although she did show signs of neglect in terms of not being
de-fleaed or fed well enough. With an imminent threat to my
home/cats/self, when a woman with fostering experience calls, I am
going to say "Wonderful!" I did not know that the fosterer believed
in declawing.

I do not know that Morganna's new humans believe in it, either. This
is an assumption that has been made, but I have no definite answer to
this. I do know that Delores, the woman who adopted her, has said
that she and her husband love her, she has a lot of toys, she has two
other cats that she gets along with fine, and that she is not
interested in giving her up.

That suggests to me a battle. And, from what - admittedly little -- I
know of Ohio law, it would be very difficult for me to retrieve her.
Particularly since I posted here that I "stole" her!

I believe the best way to deal with this is to try to educate Delores
about declawing, just in case she is inclined that way. Which is why
I downloaded information to do so. I can't just drop into her home to
give her this; I have no working car, and she lives in a far suburb
that is essentially very wealthy which means, no real bus service. I
really like the idea about finding someone from a shelter/rescue group
to go with me, and I may yet go this route. For now, however, I am
going to use my strength, which is in writing. I will send her the
information, contract and a letter. If I do not hear from her, I will
follow up in person, likely with a rescue person.

I thank those of you who are willing to make donations to a shelter to
get her back if Delores is in favor of declawing, but I just do not
see this happening. She clearly sounded like she is unwilling to give
Morganna up, and there are no shelters or rescue groups in this area
(believe me, I called/e-mailed all the ones I could find) who have
room.

I will continue, as I already have, to do the best I can for this
sweet little girl. I am not perfect, nor do I expect others to be. I
have said it before, and I will say it again. We all do the best we
can, given our situations, personalities, resources, etc. And that is
all we can do. Rabid judgmentalism has no place in this. It is,
after all, about the cats, who are, by the way, not (other than under
the law) "property". And no matter what you do - even if you have
someone sign a contract - you cannot predict or control what will
happen in the future to that cat. I cannot tell you that no cat I
ever turned over to a shelter got declawed, although I fervently hope
not. And, as Megan well knows, even a signed contract will not
necessarily prevent it from happening.

So I thank all of you again for your support and ideas. Purrs,
please, that I can get this situation happily resolved.

Ginger-lyn
(who, by the way, is an INFP)

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:26:49 -0600, "Christine Burel"
wrote:

Many, many purrs for your success in talking with the new owners,
Ginger-lyn. I'm glad some of the suggestions were useful -- positive
problem-solving has always been my preference. Would you like CatNipped and
any of us others to post what ideas we have on the following (so you could
take it with you?):

How clawed and declawed kitties have lived successfully together --
My personal experience was that I never had a problem -- I had Frodo (my
first and last cat that was ever declawed) who lived with Cowboy and Shetra
for years and years and all got along just fine.

I think if the lady has 2 adult declawed kitties they will "train" the
little one with claws to behave just by virtue of example and age. If they
don't use claws and just "slap" to get their point across to the little one,
the little one will learn this from them, too.

How to get cats to use scratching posts and or not use furniture/Same goes
for climbing curtains -- I've found that the more nubbly, sisal rope,
cat-tree and such surfaces I provide the better for my crew --- cats trees
with sisal are preferred by my cats because they love going up high and want
to mark these trees for their own! The cat trees made a huge difference in
our household (with 5 cats) in many ways; I'd strongly recommend this lady
try to get one or two for her household and put them by large windows and
see what great benefits both kitties and owner reap from this. (Tell her
Petsmart has some wonderful cat trees and often near the holidays will have
a special promotion on a particular cat tree that is usually an excellent
price; Costco, has in the past had a small import on cat trees near the
holidays, too, but you have to keep checking. One year, I called 4 or 5
people to tell them about these great Costco trees and everyone got one and
was quite pleased.) I have also found that spraying any vertical furniture
surfaces with Feliway spray definitely discourages their marking. I have
not tried this myself but I have seen sticky strips you can attach to
furniture to discourage kitties. I did have a cat "Shetra" who hated
aluminum foil and I did put foil on some places he liked to scratch till he
got retrained to use other places.

I hope all this will help you, Ginger-lyn. I encourage others to post their
ideas.
Christine


Thanks for the suggestions, Christine. I actually have one declawed
cat (obviously, I didn't declaw him) living with seven clawed cats --
lol! They do get along fine, and all the other cats learned very
quickly to keep their claws in when in a mood to smack Wolfie (the
declawed cat). It's not at all hard to maintain a happy environment
with a mix.

And I have lots of variety of scratching things myself. One of the
most successful, other than the standard tree, is a horizontal log.
Some cats prefer scratching horizontally, apparently, and several of
ours prefer this. If you have a variety of choices, chances are good
*something* will appeal!

Anyway, thanks again.

Ginger-lyn

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 08:26:49 -0600, "Christine Burel"
wrote:

Many, many purrs for your success in talking with the new owners,
Ginger-lyn. I'm glad some of the suggestions were useful -- positive
problem-solving has always been my preference. Would you like CatNipped and
any of us others to post what ideas we have on the following (so you could
take it with you?):

How clawed and declawed kitties have lived successfully together --
My personal experience was that I never had a problem -- I had Frodo (my
first and last cat that was ever declawed) who lived with Cowboy and Shetra
for years and years and all got along just fine.

I think if the lady has 2 adult declawed kitties they will "train" the
little one with claws to behave just by virtue of example and age. If they
don't use claws and just "slap" to get their point across to the little one,
the little one will learn this from them, too.

How to get cats to use scratching posts and or not use furniture/Same goes
for climbing curtains -- I've found that the more nubbly, sisal rope,
cat-tree and such surfaces I provide the better for my crew --- cats trees
with sisal are preferred by my cats because they love going up high and want
to mark these trees for their own! The cat trees made a huge difference in
our household (with 5 cats) in many ways; I'd strongly recommend this lady
try to get one or two for her household and put them by large windows and
see what great benefits both kitties and owner reap from this. (Tell her
Petsmart has some wonderful cat trees and often near the holidays will have
a special promotion on a particular cat tree that is usually an excellent
price; Costco, has in the past had a small import on cat trees near the
holidays, too, but you have to keep checking. One year, I called 4 or 5
people to tell them about these great Costco trees and everyone got one and
was quite pleased.) I have also found that spraying any vertical furniture
surfaces with Feliway spray definitely discourages their marking. I have
not tried this myself but I have seen sticky strips you can attach to
furniture to discourage kitties. I did have a cat "Shetra" who hated
aluminum foil and I did put foil on some places he liked to scratch till he
got retrained to use other places.

I hope all this will help you, Ginger-lyn. I encourage others to post their
ideas.
Christine


Thanks for the suggestions, Christine. I actually have one declawed
cat (obviously, I didn't declaw him) living with seven clawed cats --
lol! They do get along fine, and all the other cats learned very
quickly to keep their claws in when in a mood to smack Wolfie (the
declawed cat). It's not at all hard to maintain a happy environment
with a mix.

And I have lots of variety of scratching things myself. One of the
most successful, other than the standard tree, is a horizontal log.
Some cats prefer scratching horizontally, apparently, and several of
ours prefer this. If you have a variety of choices, chances are good
*something* will appeal!

Anyway, thanks again.

Ginger-lyn

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:47:03 -0500, "CatNipped"
wrote:
snip

Ginger-lyn, I sincerely hope that nothing I posted here was hurtful to you -
please know that, if it was, I didn't mean it to be, but it is *SO* hard to
convey sympathy and understanding in the stark black-and-white type of an
email. I think being non-confrontational would be the PERFECT way to be, if
only everyone else in the world were too, so that we didn't *need* to be
confrontational at times!

Not at all, Catnipped. Though I have to say being armchair
psychoanalyzed on Usenet was a bit strange! lol!

Ginger-lyn
(who, by the way, is an INFP)

big grin I thought it would be something like that! You are typical of an
"I" and an "F", especially an "F" - you are a kind and generous person who
cares very deeply for others.

Hugs,

CatNipped

TY, Catnipped -- I do. It's just part of who and what I am.

Ginger-lyn

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:47:03 -0500, "CatNipped"
wrote:
snip

Ginger-lyn, I sincerely hope that nothing I posted here was hurtful to you -
please know that, if it was, I didn't mean it to be, but it is *SO* hard to
convey sympathy and understanding in the stark black-and-white type of an
email. I think being non-confrontational would be the PERFECT way to be, if
only everyone else in the world were too, so that we didn't *need* to be
confrontational at times!

Not at all, Catnipped. Though I have to say being armchair
psychoanalyzed on Usenet was a bit strange! lol!

Ginger-lyn
(who, by the way, is an INFP)

big grin I thought it would be something like that! You are typical of an
"I" and an "F", especially an "F" - you are a kind and generous person who
cares very deeply for others.

Hugs,

CatNipped

TY, Catnipped -- I do. It's just part of who and what I am.

Ginger-lyn