For Phil

Phil,

Thanks for replying to my question. I tried emailing you directly, but I
suppose the address displayed here isn't your real one. So here are some
follow-up questions.

Since data on grams/100 kcal isn't readily available or easy to
calculate, let me ask a simpler question. If one food has more protein
than a second food does on a dry matter basis, does that also mean it has
more grams of protein/100 kcal? Likewise, if it has less carbohydrates
than another food does on a dry matter basis, does that mean it has fewer
grams of carbohydrates/100 kcal?

I am about to adopt two male kittens from my local shelter, and want to
do what I can to minimize their risk of getting diabetes. One of the cats
I recently lost to cancer (at age 14) had diabetes, even though he was
never obese or even close to it. I think it was from all the
carbohydrates in the food. So, to minimize the risk of diabetes as well
as urinary troubles, I am thinking of feeding my new critters only wet
food (if they'll eat it). Does that sound like a good idea to you?

Also, assuming the three or four foods I would consider feeding my
kittens are all from reputable "premium" or "super premium" brands and
all meet AAFCO standards for "growth/lactation" or for "all life
stages," does it sound like a reasonable idea to choose the food that is
lowest in carbohydrates and highest in protein? Or are there other issues
I should be aware of as well?

By the way, I am not concerned about "human grade" food or ingredients
like cranberries or flaxseed (which I understand cats can't metabolize or
benefit from like humans can). As far as I can tell, that's all marketing
hype, designed to appeal to human preferences rather than satisfy feline
dietary needs. But I do want to keep the calcium and phosphorus as low as
possible.


Obviously, I will be asking these questions to my vet as well, but it's
always good to have more than one opinion. Thanks for your thoughts.

JEP

"JEP" wrote in message
.130...
Phil,

Thanks for replying to my question. I tried emailing you directly, but I
suppose the address displayed here isn't your real one.


I got your email. Sorry for not replying sooner. Its kitten season and I
don't have much time to go online.



So here are some
follow-up questions.
Since data on grams/100 kcal isn't readily available or easy to
calculate,

The data is readily available from the manufactures. The phone # is on the
can. Some manufacturers publish the info on their websites. The
calculations are very easy.


let me ask a simpler question. If one food has more protein
than a second food does on a dry matter basis, does that also mean it has
more grams of protein/100 kcal? Likewise, if it has less carbohydrates
than another food does on a dry matter basis, does that mean it has fewer
grams of carbohydrates/100 kcal?


Yes & yes. Ex. 52% protein DMB = about 13 grams/100 kcal. 15% carb DMB =
about 4 grams/100.



I am about to adopt two male kittens from my local shelter, and want to
do what I can to minimize their risk of getting diabetes. One of the cats
I recently lost to cancer (at age 14) had diabetes, even though he was
never obese or even close to it. I think it was from all the
carbohydrates in the food. So, to minimize the risk of diabetes as well
as urinary troubles, I am thinking of feeding my new critters only wet
food (if they'll eat it). Does that sound like a good idea to you?


Absolutely.




Also, assuming the three or four foods I would consider feeding my
kittens are all from reputable "premium" or "super premium" brands and
all meet AAFCO standards for "growth/lactation" or for "all life
stages," does it sound like a reasonable idea to choose the food that is
lowest in carbohydrates and highest in protein?


Yes. That's the cat's natural diet


Or are there other issues
I should be aware of as well?





By the way, I am not concerned about "human grade" food or ingredients
like cranberries or flaxseed (which I understand cats can't metabolize or
benefit from like humans can). As far as I can tell, that's all marketing
hype, designed to appeal to human preferences rather than satisfy feline
dietary needs.


You are absolutely correct. A lot of people don't seem to realize that even
though meat is listed first and even second, on the label of a can of cat
food, the weight of all the plant products combined can easily exceed the
weight of the first two meat ingredients. Wellness is a perfect example.



But I do want to keep the calcium and phosphorus as low as
possible.

The calcium to phosphorus ratio is more important.




Obviously, I will be asking these questions to my vet as well, but it's
always good to have more than one opinion. Thanks for your thoughts.

JEP

I'm glad to see you're taking your cats' nutrition seriously from the very
beginning.

Best of luck,

Phil

JEP wrote:

I am about to adopt two male kittens from my local shelter, and want to
do what I can to minimize their risk of getting diabetes. One of the cats
I recently lost to cancer (at age 14) had diabetes, even though he was
never obese or even close to it. I think it was from all the
carbohydrates in the food.

Check out recent research regarding the influence of diet on the
emergence of feline diabetes. There seems to be a growing consensus
that fat content is more significant than carb content.
--

Wayne M.

"Wayne Mitchell" wrote in message
...
JEP wrote:

I am about to adopt two male kittens from my local shelter, and want to
do what I can to minimize their risk of getting diabetes. One of the cats
I recently lost to cancer (at age 14) had diabetes, even though he was
never obese or even close to it. I think it was from all the
carbohydrates in the food.

Check out recent research regarding the influence of diet on the
emergence of feline diabetes. There seems to be a growing consensus
that fat content is more significant than carb content.

That explains why all the African Wildcats and ferals carry glucose meters
and insulin! I guess the Wildcats and ferals didn't get the memo about high
fat diets. lol Gotta love some of these studies - especially the ones that
completely conflict with the cat's natural evolutionary physiology. Cats
evolved on high protein, high fat, high moisture, and very low carbohydrate
diets.

There may not be any conclusive studies that prove high carbohydrate diets
cause diabetes in cats. But its a dam safe bet to say high carbohydrate
diets unmask diabetes in cats that are predisposed to it. I have personally
weaned several dozen diabetic cats off insulin completely by feeding them
high protein/fat and low carbohydrate diets - usually canned kitten food. --
and I'm not the only one.

Gotta wonder if some of these researchers have ever even seen a cat other
than a picture of one in a textbook.

"Phil P." wrote:

Gotta love some of these studies - especially the ones that
completely conflict with the cat's natural evolutionary
physiology. Cats evolved on high protein, high fat, high
moisture, and very low carbohydrate diets.

But you'll have to admit that our pampered pets don't live their
evolutionary lifestyle. It wouldn't be too surprising if their dietary
requirements differed from that of their ancestors. Gonadectomy, in
particular, affects the body's reaction to both carbs and fats.


Gotta wonder if some of these researchers have ever even seen
a cat other than a picture of one in a textbook.

I'll let you judge for yourself. Nothing very conclusive here, but
perhaps the thin edge of an investigative wedge.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ne&aid=1304744
[TinyURL] http://tinyurl.com/3vm63zb

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
[TinyURL] http://tinyurl.com/a85f2g

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15023591

--

Wayne M.

"Wayne Mitchell" wrote in message
...
"Phil P." wrote:

Gotta love some of these studies - especially the ones that
completely conflict with the cat's natural evolutionary
physiology. Cats evolved on high protein, high fat, high
moisture, and very low carbohydrate diets.

But you'll have to admit that our pampered pets don't live their
evolutionary lifestyle.

Perhaps. But their physiology and anatomy from their mouth and shearing
teeth to the size of their stomach and length of their intestines to their
weaker thirst drive hasn't changed in thousands of years.


It wouldn't be too surprising if their dietary
requirements differed from that of their ancestors. Gonadectomy, in
particular, affects the body's reaction to both carbs and fats.


The only difference in the dietary requirements of pet cats from those of
the Wildcat and the intact feral cat is about a 33% lower daily energy
requirement which is a result of neutering. Neutering decreases the
metabolic rate and increases appetite.

Remember, there is no evolution in neutered cats because there isn't any
progeny to carry on the metabolic adaptations. Therefore, its extremely
unlikely pet cats will ever evolve physiologically and anatomically to adapt
to any other type of diet. If they do, they would probably start looking
like rabbits!



Gotta wonder if some of these researchers have ever even seen
a cat other than a picture of one in a textbook.

I'll let you judge for yourself. Nothing very conclusive here, but
perhaps the thin edge of an investigative wedge.


Gotta wonder why the pet food companies are funding all these studies that
try to exonerate dry food. Perhaps dry food sales are dropping because
owners are becoming more educated in feline nutrition. Feline interstitial
cystitis, urolithiasis, crystalluria, urinary tract obstructions in male
cats, IBD, diabetes, obesity, anal sac disease are all managed, and in many
cases, resolve, by switching the cats over from dry food to meat-based
canned food. Its reasonable to suggest that canned food may even prevent
some diseases from ever developing. For example, how many male cats fed
canned food have you heard of developing urinary tract obstructions?

Sometimes real-life experience and empirical evidence trump clinical
studies.