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Attn: MaryL, re>having trouble introducing a new cat
MaryL, I don't know if you saw my post about the horrible trouble we're
having introducing a new cat into our household. Somebody who responded to that post said you had some first-hand experience with that, and if so we'd appreciate any input you could give us. As an update, we have Moses segregated on our side porch while we are keeping Seymour in the house. We have a litter box out there for him ... and he is using it ... a pillow for him to lie on and plenty of food and fresh water. Moses seems to be very content there, is showing no real urge to get inside, although when we checked on him as we did periodically throughout the day he did stick his head out into the adjoining room for a few seconds and looked around, then went back to the porch. He seemed to be doing a bit better, had calmed down some, but we had a setback this evening when we went out to check on him and didn't notice Seymour on our heels and he got onto the porch and Moses, who had been out and about walking around most of the day, immediately hid underneath something and he only came out a very few minutes ago when I went out to top off his water dish and give him a little more food. We also tried the first thing on Phil's list of things to do when introducing a new cat, the sock trick. The thing I'm most looking for input on is when we do try again to introduce these cats to each other, how can we make Moses engage Seymour? If he continues rolling up in a ball and covering his head and I guess hoping Seymour is going to go away, then I really don't know how we're going to get past this. Moses is going to have to engage Seymour for them to ever come to some kind of accomodation ... that's all we're hoping for right now, as I said in my first post at this point we could care less if they end up being friendly ... establish some kind of pecking order or whatever. I think I mentioned that Seymour is front declawed, he came that way from the humane society. Moses, on the other hand, has claws like falcons' talons, we have to keep them clipped regularly, and while we by no means want this to end up in a catfight with somebody getting hurt, one would think that if Moses ever stops being paralyzed by fear and realizes that he can do a lot more damage to Seymour than Seymour can do to him, it might help him become more assertive in this situation at least to the point of engaging Seymour, as I said, instead of hiding and hoping that he goes away. I addressed this post to MaryL in particular because as I said, it was mentioned that she'd had similar experiences, but if anyone else cares to check out my first post and this one and respond, please feel free. |
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"Gregory Bailey" wrote in message link.net... MaryL, I don't know if you saw my post about the horrible trouble we're having introducing a new cat into our household. Somebody who responded to that post said you had some first-hand experience with that, and if so we'd appreciate any input you could give us. No, I did not see your original message, but I went back and read it after I saw this post. Unfortunately, you have unintentionally done a lot of damage by trying to push the two cats together, and it is going to take some time to reverse the damage - but it can be done. When I say "time," this does not mean a week or two - this means a considerable amount of time. It took a full six weeks when I went through the introduction process with Duffy and Holly. By forcing Seymour on Moses (with the best of intentions) without providing time for a proper introduction, you have actually creating an environment of fear. Many of the problems you listed are fear-based - hiding under the bed, inappropriate urination and defecation, curling up in ball, etc. Now, you need to start the process all over again. This time, you should proceed very slowly and carefully. Also, please be aware that you cannot "force" your cats to develop closeness to each other. All you can do is provide an environment that will be conducive to a good relationship. I wrote a document some time ago that describes how I introduced Holly and Duffy. I have previously posted most of it on this newsgroup, but I am going to repeat it for you because it has been some time since I described the process (and hope long-time readers will overlook this long post). Before you start the introduction that I will describe below, you should completely separate the cats for at least two weeks. Do not segregate your resident cat. Instead, let him have the run of the house and get him back into his normal routine. Reserve one room for Seymour, the new cat in the household. Have a litter box, toys, food and water in that room. This does not mean that Seymour should never come out. For example, pick a time when Moses takes a nap, then close the door to the room he is in and let Seymour come out for awhile (which will also permit their scents to mingle). After a considerable amount of time has passed and you get to the point where you will begin physical and visual interaction, it is very important that any association the two cats have with each other must be very positive. If anything should happen so that the cats get together and start hissing, do *not* yell or scold. Instead, distract the cats with treats or toys and gentle praise. If it looks like a fight could develop, remain calm and gently pick up one cat to separate them before a fight can begin. Doing anything negative will only reinforce fear or negative reactions by the two cats. Again, let me emphasize that you need to take this very slow. Expect the whole process to take several months because there is damage that needs to be undone. Give both cats lots of attention during this time - and it will be very much worthwhile in the end. It's better to take extra time and let Moses develop curiosity about the cat on the other side of the door than to try to force a new cat on him. Here is the original document that I mentioned: This information is based on what I learned when I adopted Duffy and wanted to bring Holly and Duffy together. Several people asked me to describe how I introduced my two, and I hope some of this information may be helpful to you. Holly had been my "only child" for seven years and was used to being spoiled and pampered. She also had shown a real dislike for other cats - so much so that we called her the "black tornado" because she would immediately attack any cat on sight. She became especially aggressive if another cat was anywhere close to me. I did not plan on adopting another cat, so Holly only came into contact with others when we visited my sister in another state. Then I saw Duffy's picture on Petfinder. He is blind and his picture just tore at my heart. He had been at the shelter for several months, and I knew that he probably would not survive once kitten season arrives and the shelter becomes overcrowded. So, I decided to adopt Duffy and do whatever I could to bring the two cats together. My two cats now get along together fine, but they were brought together very slowly and cautiously. The first thing to be aware of is that it is important to take things very slow and proceed with caution - do not try to "rush" anything. In my case, this meant that it took a full 6 weeks from the day I adopted Duffy until both cats had the full use of the house and were "together" throughout the day. I set up a bedroom just for Duffy, partly to give him time to learn his way around and partly to give Holly time to adjust. I arranged for the adoption on a Tuesday and picked up Duffy two or three days later. In the meantime, I set up three plug-in Feliway diffusers (one in the room that would be "Duffy's room" for awhile, one in the hallway outside Duffy's room where Holly would walk by the door to Duffy's room, and one in the living area where Holly spends a large part of the day). If you don't have a Feliway diffuser, it would be money well spent to get a couple of them. Feliway is used for behavior modification and can be very useful in reducing stress. Incidentally, I bought my Feliway from ValleyVet (www.valleyvet.com). They have free shipping, which saves significantly on the cost. I have also seen some good reports from people who order from www.petguys.com. Do not get the one that says "with D.A.P." because that formulation is for dogs. Duffy learned his way around his new room very quickly. Holly did a bit of hissing and growling outside his door, but it was pretty mild - none of the "vicious" sounds she made in the past, and this was really pretty normal for an "only child" who suddenly has a sibling in her home. I spent a great deal of time with Duffy, and I alternated nights so that one night I would sleep in my regular bed where Holly could join me and the next night I would sleep in Duffy's room. I also left a radio in Duffy's room, tuned to a station with classical or "soft" (soothing) music when he was left alone. I made sure that Holly got lots and lots of love and attention through all of this. Every time I left Duffy's room, I gave Holly an excessive amount of love and attention. I wanted her to know that she was not going to be displaced in my affections. After a week, a friend located a damaged unfinished door. He cut a large square out of the bottom of the door and covered it with metal mesh (actually, the type of grill that is often mounted on the bottom of screen doors to protect them from damage - sturdy and smooth, with no rough edges). He temporarily replaced the bedroom door with the new screened door so that Holly and Duffy could get up-close without any danger to either of them. He removed the hardware (hinges and doorknob) from the permanent door and mounted them on the temporary door, a process that was later reversed when we replaced the permanent door. This worked well, but an inexpensive screen door could be used for this same purpose. In fact, Megan has done this a number of times, and she spends less than $20.00 by buying a very cheap screen door and using the hardware from the permanent door for this purpose. Duffy was eager to get together with Holly, but Holly wasn't at all sure about the situation. She gradually began to show some interest and would often rest outside the door; but she did not seem to be at all upset - very different from previous attempts to introduce Holly to other cats. A couple of days after the door was installed, I began to leave the door open for a short time each evening, and gradually increased it to 2-3 hours each evening. During this period, I kept Holly in a separate room - I still had not brought them together in the same room. Duffy was quite adventuresome and quickly learned his way around the house. This also distributed his scent, which gave Holly time to become adjusted to the scent before I tried to bring them together. Next, I placed tuna on two ends of a long platter and slipped it under the door so the two cats could eat "together." The idea was to place a plate with special-treat food under the door (with food on each side of the door) so the cats would learn to associate something "good" with being in close proximity when they ate the treats. Be sure to keep this in mind when you install the screen door because you should cut enough off the bottom (about 2 inches or a little more) so the platter can be slipped underneath - and also so the two cat can eventually play "pawsies" together under the door, as mine did. Eventually, I began to give Duffy the run of the house along with Holly, but only under close supervision. I gradually increased the amount of time the two were together, and soon didn't need to supervise them. However, I did not leave them alone in the house. I was careful to give Holly lots of extra love and attention any time I had been playing with Duffy - I didn't want to cause feelings of sibling rivalry. After about five weeks into this process, I had a week of vacation. This was the ideal time to let them really get to know each other. Throughout the week, I gave them more and more time together - first all day, then both day and night. By the time we approached the sixth week, both cats had the full run of the house at all times, and then I began to leave the house for short periods of time (first only an hour at a time, then would go back to check on them). By the end of that week, they were together at all times. This very slow, gradual transition has really paid off. My two furbabies are now very comfortable together. They are usually both in the same room, they frequently play together, and there is a real sense of companionship between the two of them. They always eat together with no problems and sometimes even share the same bowl. It took several months before they reached this truly companionable stage, but they got along well enough for me to call it a "success" after 6 or 8 weeks. I hope this might give you a few ideas for your cats. Please let me re-emphasize this point: take it very slow, and don't try to rush things. Whenever you think it's time to move to the next step, you should probably stop and wait it out for another week. It took about 6 weeks for us to work through the entire process. I "thought" I going slow when I tried to introduce Holly to my sister's cats some time ago (we took about two weeks), but that was a disaster and led to the "black tornado" references. The difference this time has been remarkable. Friends who knew how Holly had reacted in the past really could hardly believe it. They were sure that it was never going to be possible to place Holly with any other cat. I have posted a "pictorial history"on a friend's web site showing our progress, including pictures of the temporary door that helped so much. If you would like to see it, go to this location: http://tinyurl.com/6amr. There are also some later pictures in a second album that shows the progress we have made: http://tinyurl.com/8y56. The two links I gave are the "short" links created by tinyurl. If those links won't open, you might want to try the longer versions: http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1636692&uid=476350 and http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1916528&uid=476350. I hope this helps! Please keep us updated, and don't hesitate to ask for more help. MaryL |
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MaryL wrote:
I wrote a document some time ago that describes how I introduced Holly and Duffy. I have previously posted most of it on this newsgroup, but I am going to repeat it for you because it has been some time since I described the process Dear MaryL, Thanks very much for reposting this intro process. It comes in handy for me especially since I am also going through the same situation as the original poster with regards to a botched up intro process between Vanessa (who arrived in May) and my other two cats Cleo and Enkidu. (The problem is really with Cleo and not Enkidu, as Enkidu is a particularly docile cat who really couldn't care less.) With my situation it may take even longer since it involved bad cat fights between Cleo and Vanessa. Now Vanessa has been separated in her own room (once again) for the past few days and the stress levels in the house have already been greatly reduced. Every so often I'll open the door to let the two cats have a look at each other. Sometimes there's hissing, sometimes not. All my cats are getting equal amounts of attention and affection. No one is lacking and there is a definitive improvement in the atmosphere. As you had suggested, I'll keep Vanessa in that room for another couple of weeks before I take the next step. I have an old screen window that I'll get remodeled into a screen door and when the time comes, I'll put that up on the door frame, and I'll make sure the bottom is high enough to stick a long platter so that I can feed both the cats treats at the same time. (That's such a fantastic idea.) Thanks once again. Marcie PS - Gregory, best of luck to you and to your cats Moses and Seymour. I can really empathize. |
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Gregory Bailey wrote:
We also tried the first thing on Phil's list of things to do when introducing a new cat, the sock trick. Don't rush things, you just got them separated again, if I understood correctly? Give them at least a few days or a week to stabilize and calm down, maybe longer. You have to give them time to forget some of the fearful and aggresive attitudes The thing I'm most looking for input on is when we do try again to introduce these cats to each other, how can we make Moses engage Seymour? You can't "make" the cat do anything without the risk that you're also going to make the cat more fearful. They have to decide when they're ready to "engage". You *can* try to entice him out with food or play. I haven't tried Feliway myself, but it sounds like it would be worth trying with Moses, to get him feeling more calm and confident. If he continues rolling up in a ball and covering his head and I guess hoping Seymour is going to go away, then I really don't know how we're going to get past this. Moses is going to have to engage Seymour for them to ever come to some kind of accomodation ... that's all we're hoping for right now, as I said in my first post at this point we could care less if they end up being friendly ... establish some kind of pecking order or whatever. |
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"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
news:z2OWe.3010$P34.554@okepread07... No, I did not see your original message, but I went back and read it after I saw this post. Unfortunately, you have unintentionally done a lot of damage by trying to push the two cats together, and it is going to take some time to reverse the damage - but it can be done. When I say "time," this does not mean a week or two - this means a considerable amount of time. This is absolutely true. In our defense, though, my wife has twice in the past introduced a new cat into a household with another cat, and I've introduced one new cat into a household with another cat, and we have never experienced anything like this. The time I introduced a new cat, it was like one sniff and they were bosom buddies. Of course, the problem there is (a.) that apparently our past experiences were the exception rather than the rule and (b.) we shouldn't have assumed that just because it happened that way in the past doesn't mean it's going to happen that way now. Bottom line, we made assumptions based on our past experiences that turned out to be wrong, and we got totally blindsided by this. Plus the basically two weeks we lost from the process when first one cat then the other were sick and we tried to completely segregate them from any interaction to keep them from infecting each other with the upper respiratory infection didn't help matters. It took a full six weeks when I went through the introduction process with Duffy and Holly. We are willing to give it that much time or longer. By forcing Seymour on Moses (with the best of intentions) without providing time for a proper introduction, you have actually creating an environment of fear. Many of the problems you listed are fear-based - hiding under the bed, inappropriate urination and defecation, curling up in ball, etc. Moses has always been prone to urination and defecation in stressful moments. I mentioned this before, and I say this with love for Moses and not to put him down, because he is basically "my" cat ... or let me rephrase that, I am "his" person; in other words he has bonded with me more than anyone in the house over these 14 years and he absolutely worships the ground I walk on and I kind of love him a pretty good bit as well ... Moses is, for lack of a better term, crazy. Even though he's a loving cat, almost to the extreme in a lot of ways (especially with me) and certain situations, he also has, over 14 years, shown signs of what would be described in humans as paranoia, neuroses, psychoses, the whole gamut. I promise you on a stack of Bibles that I am not overstating this or being melodramatic. He is extraordinarily fearful of EVERYTHING, always has been. It's always been a joke with us ... "here comes our psychotic, neurotic, paranoid cat," but as he's gotten older and had the health crisis that almost killed him earlier this year and now this situation, it's not as humorous. Anything like this connected with Moses is going to be a tough assignment, simply because of his personality quirks. But we are not about to abandon him. He's a member of the family. Also, please be aware that you cannot "force" your cats to develop closeness to each other. All you can do is provide an environment that will be conducive to a good relationship. Again, at this point all we are looking for is tolerance and acceptance that they (a.) both live here and (b.) neither one of them is going anywhere. It would of course be desirable that they have friendly interaction, and we hope and pray that at the end of this process they will, but more than anything we want tolerance and acceptance of each other's existence from them. Before you start the introduction that I will describe below, you should completely separate the cats for at least two weeks. Do not segregate your resident cat. Instead, let him have the run of the house and get him back into his normal routine. The reason we segregated Moses is that his urination and defecation was ruining things in the house. We're going to have to replace some curtains and he also damaged some sheets, a pillow, some of the kids' toys and various items of clothing, plus we're probably going to have to have some carpet professionally cleaned. It would be a sensitive thing to say that given the circumstances, those material things should not be a concern. However, the cold, hard reality is that they are a major concern, and what was going on was simply not acceptable. It may not have been the right thing to do to help alleviate this situation or further the process of introducing him and Seymour, but we simply had to get Moses out of the house until he stopped defecating and urinating and sitting their lying in it because he wouldn't go to the box.. We are willing to change the arrangement if necessary, but I fear that we've gotten ourselves in a pickle in another way because Seymour has now been in the house for four weeks, so he's got a claim on things too, although certainly not 14 years worth. He's the new cat compared to Moses, and in Moses' mind, but the reality is that now he's not really "new" anymore. This is his home. Plus the family, especially the kids which is not surprising since Seymour is a young cat who likes to play and Moses is rather long in the tooth, has bonded really heavily with Seymour. Plus Seymour has bonded really heavily with us, and his personality is that he's a people cat, he wants to be where his people are. So if we segregate Seymour, are we not inviting problems with him and him thinking that we're punishing him or don't love him anymore or whatever? I mean, it's like we've messed up so badly that now we're in a situation of darned if we do or don't. After a considerable amount of time has passed and you get to the point where you will begin physical and visual interaction, it is very important that any association the two cats have with each other must be very positive. If anything should happen so that the cats get together and start hissing, do *not* yell or scold. Instead, distract the cats with treats or toys and gentle praise. If it looks like a fight could develop, remain calm and gently pick up one cat to separate them before a fight can begin. Doing anything negative will only reinforce fear or negative reactions by the two cats. Again, let me emphasize that you need to take this very slow. Expect the whole process to take several months because there is damage that needs to be undone. Give both cats lots of attention during this time - and it will be very much worthwhile in the end. It's better to take extra time and let Moses develop curiosity about the cat on the other side of the door than to try to force a new cat on him. We have tried to remain positive with them and will continue trying to do that. And we're not so much resigned, but committed to the fact that this is not going to solve itself overnight. It's not going to be like the three other non-stressful, non-problematic new cat introductions that my wife and I have personally gone through. We realize that now. Basically, we're going to take all we've learned from you and other folks here and try to come up with a game plan for what we need to do. Whatever that game plan is, rest assured we're in it for the long haul. Thanks! |
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"Gregory Bailey" wrote in message link.net... MaryL, I don't know if you saw my post about the horrible trouble we're having introducing a new cat into our household. Somebody who responded to that post said you had some first-hand experience with that, and if so we'd appreciate any input you could give us. As an update, we have Moses segregated on our side porch while we are keeping Seymour in the house. We have a litter box out there for him ... and he is using it ... a pillow for him to lie on and plenty of food and fresh water. Moses seems to be very content there, is showing no real urge to get inside, although when we checked on him as we did periodically throughout the day he did stick his head out into the adjoining room for a few seconds and looked around, then went back to the porch. He seemed to be doing a bit better, had calmed down some, but we had a setback this evening when we went out to check on him and didn't notice Seymour on our heels and he got onto the porch and Moses, who had been out and about walking around most of the day, immediately hid underneath something and he only came out a very few minutes ago when I went out to top off his water dish and give him a little more food. We also tried the first thing on Phil's list of things to do when introducing a new cat, the sock trick. The thing I'm most looking for input on is when we do try again to introduce these cats to each other, how can we make Moses engage Seymour? If he continues rolling up in a ball and covering his head and I guess hoping Seymour is going to go away, then I really don't know how we're going to get past this. Moses is going to have to engage Seymour for them to ever come to some kind of accomodation ... that's all we're hoping for right now, as I said in my first post at this point we could care less if they end up being friendly ... establish some kind of pecking order or whatever. I think I mentioned that Seymour is front declawed, he came that way from the humane society. Moses, on the other hand, has claws like falcons' talons, we have to keep them clipped regularly, and while we by no means want this to end up in a catfight with somebody getting hurt, one would think that if Moses ever stops being paralyzed by fear and realizes that he can do a lot more damage to Seymour than Seymour can do to him, it might help him become more assertive in this situation at least to the point of engaging Seymour, as I said, instead of hiding and hoping that he goes away. I addressed this post to MaryL in particular because as I said, it was mentioned that she'd had similar experiences, but if anyone else cares to check out my first post and this one and respond, please feel free. Greg, I think the best thing to do is begin the introduction process all over again. The second time might take longer. I think the 'gate method' that I described on my site will help a great deal. With the gates, the cats can adjust to being close to each other without any fear or danger. The gates will also help make Moses feel that Seymour isn't taking over his territory. http://www.maxshouse.com/introducing_cats.htm Best of luck. Phil |
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"Phil P." wrote in message ... Greg, I think the best thing to do is begin the introduction process all over again. The second time might take longer. I think the 'gate method' that I described on my site will help a great deal. With the gates, the cats can adjust to being close to each other without any fear or danger. The gates will also help make Moses feel that Seymour isn't taking over his territory. http://www.maxshouse.com/introducing_cats.htm Best of luck. Phil Phil, The gate method you described is similar to the door I used (which was an unfinished door with a cut-out and metal mesh mounted over the hole, or a very inexpensive screen door). In fact, my sister has used the gate method. However, I found the doors I used to be much easier to use over a period of time because they can easily be opened and closed, just as any other door (pictures can be seen in Duffy's album). My sister's gated door was more awkward to use. We used the same hardware from the permanent door -- we removed the hinges and door knobs from the permanent door and mounted them on the temporary screened door. Later, we reversed the process, and I stored the temporary door in my attic for possible future use. You might want to take a look at the pictures because this door worked beautifully -- and had the added advantage for me of retaining the guest room that I used for Duffy as a bedroom with some privacy, just in case I needed it during that time (as I did, except that I slept in the guest bedroom with Duffy and turned my bedroom over to my brother when he visited). MaryL Pictorial history of Duffy's introduction to Holly The introduction: http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...6350&members=1 Later progress: http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...528&uid=476350 |
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"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message news:WV%We.3054$P34.800@okepread07... "Phil P." wrote in message ... Greg, I think the best thing to do is begin the introduction process all over again. The second time might take longer. I think the 'gate method' that I described on my site will help a great deal. With the gates, the cats can adjust to being close to each other without any fear or danger. The gates will also help make Moses feel that Seymour isn't taking over his territory. http://www.maxshouse.com/introducing_cats.htm Best of luck. Phil Phil, The gate method you described is similar to the door I used (which was an unfinished door with a cut-out and metal mesh mounted over the hole, or a very inexpensive screen door). In fact, my sister has used the gate method. However, I found the doors I used to be much easier to use over a period of time because they can easily be opened and closed, just as any other door (pictures can be seen in Duffy's album). My sister's gated door was more awkward to use. We used the same hardware from the permanent door -- we removed the hinges and door knobs from the permanent door and mounted them on the temporary screened door. Later, we reversed the process, and I stored the temporary door in my attic for possible future use. You might want to take a look at the pictures because this door worked beautifully -- and had the added advantage for me of retaining the guest room that I used for Duffy as a bedroom with some privacy, just in case I needed it during that time (as I did, except that I slept in the guest bedroom with Duffy and turned my bedroom over to my brother when he visited). MaryL Pictorial history of Duffy's introduction to Holly The introduction: http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...6350&members=1 Later progress: http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...528&uid=476350 Actually, the gates are very simple to use. A lot easier than hanging a door for many people. Only the top gate must be tightly in place- the bottom two gates easily slide open and closed for feeding and entering the room. Phil |
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On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 19:27:32 GMT, "Gregory Bailey"
wrote: snip Just to echo what's been said - with cats, patience is a virtue. Dogs learn things the first few times you show them. Cats take forever. We spoiled an introduction by letting the new cat too close too soon, and Megan pointed out that we'd need a regimented, nearly round-the-clock regime to fix things - which we could not do because of our hellish schedules. This was a good outcome, luckily, because Megan intervened. With our current introduction, things are complicated because the new cat is neurotic to begin with. It may be because of the declawing, or the long trip, but we are taking things VERY slowly. We've just started peeling the cardboard away from the screen-door, and had quite pleasant interactions while the new cat's owner (son's girlfriend who recently moved in) pets her and gives her treats, and we sit on the other side petting and treating our own cats. The major point to remember is that if the cats get into a scuffle, you've lost more than the time currently invested in the introduction - you have to go back even earlier. BLink |
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