Declawing: glad I took the time

wrote in message
...
Alison wrote:
Will the OP be able to make the
commitment an indoor cat needs or will it
all end in tears?

This was really unnecessary, and I don't appreciate you exaggerating
as
though keeping the cat indoors could lead to some sort of emotional
devastation.

Sorry I didn't mean it sound facetious , I just trying to discuss
with out it getting heavy , though don't you think I have a point
about the commitment . As I said in my post , it depends very much
on the owner and I think the OP said he wasn't that fond of cats .
Keeping a cat indoors doesn't necessarily make you a good cat owner
anymore than letting a cat out makes you a bad one. You get good and
bad owners per se.

AFAIK, He has given you all no clues to where he lives or what type of
area it is , his neighbours let their cats out. It is not exaggerating
to say that indoor cats *can* suffer problems and end up in
shelters, because they do. I didn't use the words emotional devastaion
..


It's a crock and you certainly are NOT being helpful when
it comes to this cat getting a permanent home when you spend your
whole
post criticizing keeping the cat indoors yet did not bother to add
one
word to the OP about what could be done to make a happy cat. I also
never said it was either/or. I was relating my experience about
making
outdoor cats indoor cats and addressing the OP's question about
whether
it's possible.

I was under the impression it *did* have a permanent home but it
lives outside. I haven't given any info about keepng a cat happy
indoors, in this case because I feel there is no need to keep the cat
in .
Giving advice on keeping an indoor cat happy can ,and perhaps should
, be given by those who insist it stays in, just as I've given
suggestions and advice to people who want to let their cat out . In
other posts and on other forums I've given links to people who can't
let their cat out and have problems with them . I've also given links
to someone on this thread about scratching the furniture. I did in
fact ask on this group about cats humping towels (indoor cats) this
was a problem on another forum and I didn't know how to reply . I
didn't get much response so either people didn't know or they didn't
answer because I'm in their kill files.


Contrary to the idyllic portrait of outdoor life for cats in the UK
you
and a few others might like to paint, your cats suffer road
accidents,
the wrath of neighbors, etc. when you allow them to roam free.
The US cannot be compared to the UK in this regard as things are
very
different here.

That's sounds like a contradiction to me. That last sentence works
both ways too. The Americans in some groups are very quick to jump on
UK people for letting their cats out when things like rabies and tick
born diseases don't apply .

Have I painted and idlyic life and never mentioned dangers at all?
I'm sure I've said the biggest danger to cats in the Uk is traffic and
I'm not the only Uker to say this . In many cases , yes it is an
idylic life. But I have always said that it is up to each owner to
evaluate the risks and make a decision. I'm not ignoring the risks .



[..]
. You've been on this group long enough to see the numerous
posts about tragedies that have befallen cats and the discord their
being allowed to roam at will can create, so don't try to plead
ignorance.

Yes I know , I've been reading and studying cat groups for several
years . But how much of this is relevent to the OP?
I *do* appreciate the dangers, much more so than when I first
started posting .

The problem is that in this type of thread , in other foums as well ,
the views are very one sided and I try to redress the balance and then
it makes *me* look onesided and biased. I am biased towards keeping
cats out, but I am not totally fanatical about it and I don't insist
"you must let them out."
To me insisting that every cat must be kept in and indeed, suggesting
to someone to take a cat simply because its owners let it out and
therefore a bad owner is fanatical.
It seems to me that people repeat things they've read with out
checking out the information because they want to believe it . It's
hard to get facts and figure that agree , they can also distorted .

Just as you (one)paint the dangers of outdoor life , you(one) also
idylise the indoor life style of a cat .
What *I* see is in newsgroups and forums is indoor cats being
declawed , being shouted at , sprayed with water and even vinegar ,
shock collars (IV), drugged with valium , talk of disciplining and
punishment . I saw a thread on a forum , "How do you discipline your
cat " of all things. I get this mental picture of people dressing up
in leather carrying whips ! I should think some outdoor and UK
owners do some of this too but it's the acceptence of it as being a
normal every day thing to do that I find strange and upsetting . I
hope that makes sense.
I've notice that there has been a change since I started reading
this group and more people have started to say don't punish etc . If
you read back through my previous posts , I've always tried to give
advice on how to deal with problems without resorting to this .

If the OP has a fenced in yard he can catproof to make sure the
cat
can't get out and other animals/people can't get in I don't see a
problem with allowing the cat out that way. Leash training so he can
take the cat out for walks is another option.

Yes and I've always suggested that myself . I have links on my
website about fencing and I suggest to people that they read Karen
Pryors clicker training book on how to teach their cat to leash walk
and also how to train it to come to you and be picked up instead of
panicking and trying to runaway if something frightens it .The walking
jackets on the website look good

Allowing the cat to roam at will is neither safe nor is it courteous
to others, and is in many
instances illegal.

This is a blanket statement, again, every situation is different.
It's not that simple to say every cat must be kept in .
I'm sorry I'm ****ing you but I'm not just mouthing off for the sake
of it. I strongly support you in anti -declawing and will contiue to
do so, if you want to kill file me ot have a go at me do so but I
also feel strongly about this and will continue to post about it.
Alison


Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the
decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings
and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come
his
way."

- W.H. Murray

wrote in message
...
Wow...a mouse ran in here while I was using the computer. I closed
the door to trap it, and went and got the cat (Lucy).

She had that thing's neck snapped in about two seconds.

She's a keeper. I took a picture, I'll have to get it uploaded.

My cat Kim brought in a live baby mouse and I caught it and put it in
the garden shed , she did the very same thing the next day. I swear
it was the same mouse. I put it back in the shed and kept the door
shut . I put food out for it . I hope he doesn't bring his friends
along .
Alison

wrote in message
...
Wow...a mouse ran in here while I was using the computer. I closed
the door to trap it, and went and got the cat (Lucy).

She had that thing's neck snapped in about two seconds.

She's a keeper. I took a picture, I'll have to get it uploaded.

My cat Kim brought in a live baby mouse and I caught it and put it in
the garden shed , she did the very same thing the next day. I swear
it was the same mouse. I put it back in the shed and kept the door
shut . I put food out for it . I hope he doesn't bring his friends
along .
Alison

From:

Wow...I just got off the phone with my neighbor. She's watched this
situation unfold ever since the cat first showed up.

She has always had her cats declawed, and she's owned many cats.
When I told her about the things I'd discovered about the procedure,
her exact words were "Who gives a ****? It's a cat."

She feels it's a small price for the cat to pay in exchange for
getting "the good life" afterwards.

I'm still floored by the attitude.


Ugh Some good life
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From:

Wow...I just got off the phone with my neighbor. She's watched this
situation unfold ever since the cat first showed up.

She has always had her cats declawed, and she's owned many cats.
When I told her about the things I'd discovered about the procedure,
her exact words were "Who gives a ****? It's a cat."

She feels it's a small price for the cat to pay in exchange for
getting "the good life" afterwards.

I'm still floored by the attitude.


Ugh Some good life
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

"MaryL" The two of you have just described Duffy. I have never
before had such a
talkative cat -- cute little "chirps" and "mrrrps." One person
described
one of his sounds as a "trilling" sound. That was when I was
holding the
phone so she could hear him, which also shows you one of the
highlights of
my day!


We could have worse days, that's for sure!

"MaryL" The two of you have just described Duffy. I have never
before had such a
talkative cat -- cute little "chirps" and "mrrrps." One person
described
one of his sounds as a "trilling" sound. That was when I was
holding the
phone so she could hear him, which also shows you one of the
highlights of
my day!


We could have worse days, that's for sure!

"kaeli" wrote in message
...
In article ,
enlightened us with...

I fully understand that (and the analogy of other groups who feel
strongly
about issue "x"). I think there is a very, very large group of
people who
choose or think about declawing, do so not because they want to
take a chance
that the animal they love may be tortured, but because of a
variety of
experiences/advice that says it's an ok thing to do (not torture
in general -
declawing!).


I'm sure that's true.
We had declawed cats the whole time I was growing up, too. We didn't
know what it was. When I found out, as a young adult, that it wasn't
just a nail removal, but an amputation, I vowed to never, ever do it
again.

Take the neighbor's attitude ("just" a cat? NO cat is "just"
anything! ;-D).
One shared by many, to some degree. Lot's of priorities.

Also true. The point it, when people have that attitude, other
people
are allowed to tell them they're assholes. I am as entitled to think
they're assholes as they are to think it's just a cat.

OMG! You must be my long lost sister, who was switched at birth with
the anti-animal
creature currently posing as my sister!

(I think this means that I agree with you.)

"kaeli" wrote in message
...
In article ,
enlightened us with...

I fully understand that (and the analogy of other groups who feel
strongly
about issue "x"). I think there is a very, very large group of
people who
choose or think about declawing, do so not because they want to
take a chance
that the animal they love may be tortured, but because of a
variety of
experiences/advice that says it's an ok thing to do (not torture
in general -
declawing!).


I'm sure that's true.
We had declawed cats the whole time I was growing up, too. We didn't
know what it was. When I found out, as a young adult, that it wasn't
just a nail removal, but an amputation, I vowed to never, ever do it
again.

Take the neighbor's attitude ("just" a cat? NO cat is "just"
anything! ;-D).
One shared by many, to some degree. Lot's of priorities.

Also true. The point it, when people have that attitude, other
people
are allowed to tell them they're assholes. I am as entitled to think
they're assholes as they are to think it's just a cat.

OMG! You must be my long lost sister, who was switched at birth with
the anti-animal
creature currently posing as my sister!

(I think this means that I agree with you.)

From: (J1Boss)

From: "Mary"

I am surprised that you do not regret
declawing your cat. I felt so strongly about it from the moment I had
done it it is very hard to understand anyone not regretting it.

I guess it's how you look at word definitions. I would NOT declaw a cat
again.
OTOH, she never has or had any associated problems from it, which is why
"regret" just seems like the wrong word. I would use the word regret if
there
had been any signs of pain from her, etc. but I can't honestly say that she
exhibited anything at all.

Janet, I know you've been informed that cats are very stoic creatures and
therefore often won't exhibit pain. Just because *you* didn't see it, or maybe
even chose not to see it, doesn't mean it didn't exist. The mere fact that
declawing is amputation of the ends of the cat's toes should be enough to make
you horrified
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm