Crane, Gaubster, PhilP

"Liz" wrote in message
om...

So does the FDA/CVM!

You are so innocent!

You're so paranoid!

Pharmaceutical and chemical
industry will have the FDA approve whatever they want approved.

Is that why the FDA is constantly refusing to approve drugs and why they
pull drugs off the market?


I was wondering when you were going to show up.... It looks like Lauren's
calling in the reinforcements! LOL!

"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om...

I have retained an attorney

snip

You have to wonder if all is above board what
are they hiding.

The money would have been better spent on a psychologist....

"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om...

I have retained an attorney

snip

You have to wonder if all is above board what
are they hiding.

The money would have been better spent on a psychologist....

Look at Monsanto. They had the FDA
approve ethoxyquin for pet food. Now most manufacturers are taking it
out of their food. The vet board suggested pet food should have no
more than 75ppm when the FDA approved as much as 150 ppm.

That's not exactly a complete history of the subject. The reason most pet food
companies are avoiding ethoxyquin is because it's been given a bad rap. In
fact, did you know that vitamin e itself is preserved (in a lot of instances)
w/ ethoyxquin? The same people that freak out over ethoxyquin don't have a
problem w/ foods "preserved w/ vitamin e"--when in fact those foods may have
just as much ethoxyquin!

Then Bush backs up Monsanto saying
that there are too many people starving in the world and this is
reason enough to increase agricultural productivity through GEPs. Yeah
right. As if Bush was going to go around distributing food to those
starving.

Oh, I see. You hate President Bush.

Look at vaccines. All the vaccines the FDA has approved. Many of
them cause ADD (attention deficit disorder) and autism.

Are you against vaccines? They have made our world much safer, yet I suppose
you are one to only look at the few negatives.

The percentage
of children with these disorders has risen dramatically over the last
few years. I could give you many more examples but I´m sure with some
reading you can find out what is going on in the world you live in.

Are you being condescending? I'm quite aware of what is going on around me. I
just don't fall for all of the fear mongering and conspiracy theories that the
less-intelligent people go around believing in.

I
worked for the pharmaceutical industry for ten years and I sure know
what it´s all about.

Why did you get out?

Look at Monsanto. They had the FDA
approve ethoxyquin for pet food. Now most manufacturers are taking it
out of their food. The vet board suggested pet food should have no
more than 75ppm when the FDA approved as much as 150 ppm.

That's not exactly a complete history of the subject. The reason most pet food
companies are avoiding ethoxyquin is because it's been given a bad rap. In
fact, did you know that vitamin e itself is preserved (in a lot of instances)
w/ ethoyxquin? The same people that freak out over ethoxyquin don't have a
problem w/ foods "preserved w/ vitamin e"--when in fact those foods may have
just as much ethoxyquin!

Then Bush backs up Monsanto saying
that there are too many people starving in the world and this is
reason enough to increase agricultural productivity through GEPs. Yeah
right. As if Bush was going to go around distributing food to those
starving.

Oh, I see. You hate President Bush.

Look at vaccines. All the vaccines the FDA has approved. Many of
them cause ADD (attention deficit disorder) and autism.

Are you against vaccines? They have made our world much safer, yet I suppose
you are one to only look at the few negatives.

The percentage
of children with these disorders has risen dramatically over the last
few years. I could give you many more examples but I´m sure with some
reading you can find out what is going on in the world you live in.

Are you being condescending? I'm quite aware of what is going on around me. I
just don't fall for all of the fear mongering and conspiracy theories that the
less-intelligent people go around believing in.

I
worked for the pharmaceutical industry for ten years and I sure know
what it´s all about.

Why did you get out?

Liz, there have been a number of documents, under the FOIA, that
various government agencies have refused to release. Legal action has
been taken in a number of cases in order to obtain these records. At
the present time I have retained an attorney in order to get any and
all documentation related to the pentobarbital and DNA study the
FDA/CVM has undertaken. You have to wonder if all is above board what
are they hiding.

Ann

Ann, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. There is nothing more to be
found other than what has been reported. Since that doesn't jive w/ your
conspiracy theory and scare tactics, you are trying to come up w/ something,
anything, I suspect. Why not just admit that you've hit a dead end? You're
assuming they are hiding "something".

Liz, there have been a number of documents, under the FOIA, that
various government agencies have refused to release. Legal action has
been taken in a number of cases in order to obtain these records. At
the present time I have retained an attorney in order to get any and
all documentation related to the pentobarbital and DNA study the
FDA/CVM has undertaken. You have to wonder if all is above board what
are they hiding.

Ann

Ann, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. There is nothing more to be
found other than what has been reported. Since that doesn't jive w/ your
conspiracy theory and scare tactics, you are trying to come up w/ something,
anything, I suspect. Why not just admit that you've hit a dead end? You're
assuming they are hiding "something".

..because of rumors, innuendo and scare tactics perpertrated by the au
naturel cult fanatics.

Phil, you sound like an old LP record repeating the same words over
and over again... Can´t you find other arguments instead of just
calling people au naturel cult fanatics? Or is it because you just
love saying the only two words you know in French?

The au naturel fanatics attacked Ethoxyquin because
it can also be used as a pesticide or herbicide...

Nope, I never attacked ethoxyquin because it is also used as a
herbicide and is very toxic. I attacked it because it is a class C
substance (possible carcinogenic) and because I am *sure* fatty liver
disease is caused by these artificial antioxidants building up in the
liver. Can´t you understand that if these things inhibit oxidation
outside the body in an atmosphere with 20% oxygen that it would
inhibit oxidation to a much greater extent inside the body where the
oxygen availability is way way lower? Think Phil, think!

Salt, as a nutrient, is regulated
by the FDA as a feed additive, but salt, to control plant growth, is
regulated by EPA as an herbicide.... The principals are the same but the au
naturel fanatics would have looked ridiculous attacking salt....

No, they wouldn´t. If you knew the least bit about agriculture you´d
know why any salt (including fertilizers) must be used with great
caution and always with supervision of an agronomist.

The vet board suggested pet food should have no
more than 75ppm

...because of complaints they received as a result the scare tactics and
rumors perpertrated by the au naturel cults and "natural "breeders...

Oh, so you´re saying they are stupid enough to buy those rumors if
those rumors were really just rumors?

.Even at that level *still* not a single case of ethoxyquin-related illness
or adverse effect was *ever* reported in a *single* cat in the of hundreds
of millions of cats that ate food preserved with ethoxyquin for
*generations*.

You only see what you *want* to see. Isn´t cancer the number one cause
of feline death?

Just an example of the general public's ignorance, vulnerability and
susceptibility to scare tactics, rumors and innuendo (Martin's keys to
selling books) perpetrated by a few fanatical extremists with an agenda....

You´re just too lazy to bother feeding your cats REAL food so you come
up with all that hostility to justify your laziness before your own
conscience.

..because of rumors, innuendo and scare tactics perpertrated by the au
naturel cult fanatics.

Phil, you sound like an old LP record repeating the same words over
and over again... Can´t you find other arguments instead of just
calling people au naturel cult fanatics? Or is it because you just
love saying the only two words you know in French?

The au naturel fanatics attacked Ethoxyquin because
it can also be used as a pesticide or herbicide...

Nope, I never attacked ethoxyquin because it is also used as a
herbicide and is very toxic. I attacked it because it is a class C
substance (possible carcinogenic) and because I am *sure* fatty liver
disease is caused by these artificial antioxidants building up in the
liver. Can´t you understand that if these things inhibit oxidation
outside the body in an atmosphere with 20% oxygen that it would
inhibit oxidation to a much greater extent inside the body where the
oxygen availability is way way lower? Think Phil, think!

Salt, as a nutrient, is regulated
by the FDA as a feed additive, but salt, to control plant growth, is
regulated by EPA as an herbicide.... The principals are the same but the au
naturel fanatics would have looked ridiculous attacking salt....

No, they wouldn´t. If you knew the least bit about agriculture you´d
know why any salt (including fertilizers) must be used with great
caution and always with supervision of an agronomist.

The vet board suggested pet food should have no
more than 75ppm

...because of complaints they received as a result the scare tactics and
rumors perpertrated by the au naturel cults and "natural "breeders...

Oh, so you´re saying they are stupid enough to buy those rumors if
those rumors were really just rumors?

.Even at that level *still* not a single case of ethoxyquin-related illness
or adverse effect was *ever* reported in a *single* cat in the of hundreds
of millions of cats that ate food preserved with ethoxyquin for
*generations*.

You only see what you *want* to see. Isn´t cancer the number one cause
of feline death?

Just an example of the general public's ignorance, vulnerability and
susceptibility to scare tactics, rumors and innuendo (Martin's keys to
selling books) perpetrated by a few fanatical extremists with an agenda....

You´re just too lazy to bother feeding your cats REAL food so you come
up with all that hostility to justify your laziness before your own
conscience.

"Liz" wrote in message
om...
..because of rumors, innuendo and scare tactics perpertrated by the au
naturel cult fanatics.

Phil, you sound like an old LP record repeating the same words over
and over again...

Could be because au naturel cult fanatics keep repeating the same "the sky
is falling" .scare tactics and innuendo.......

Can´t you find other arguments instead of just
calling people au naturel cult fanatics?

I only call au naturel cult fanatics au naturel cult fanatics....


Nope, I never attacked ethoxyquin because it is also used as a
herbicide and is very toxic. I attacked it because it is a class C
substance (possible carcinogenic)

Possible carcinogenic??? A lot of substances are possible carcinogenics at
excessive doses... Look up selenium in your chemistry set manual...
Ethoxyquin has been shown to suppress the carcinogenic potential of several
compounds and *inhibit* the formation of hepatocellular carcinoma....

Mis-Leading Martin praises Donald Strombeck's naturel diets book but didn't
mention his views on ethoxyquin:
..

"Ethoxyquin is safe as well as effective. There is more than three-Â*quarters
of a century of study of this chemical. Like almost any chemical if a dog or
cat receives enough, it can be toxic. Ethoxyquin has a very wide range of
safety, however, and the amount added to pet food causes no problems. Its
permitted use as a preservative is 0.015 percent, which is a very low
concentration.



Ethoxyquin, more so than any other antioxidant, has anticancer properties.
It interferes with cancer induction by other chemicals through actions not
dependent on being an antioxidant. Ethoxyquin can bind carcinogenic
chemicals and can bind to enzymes that convert inert chemicals into ones
causing cancer."



Hills doesn't use ethoxyquin anymore so I have no hidden agenda. I'm using
ethoxyquin as an example of a typical au naturel cult scare tactic and innue
ndo...


...because of complaints they received as a result the scare tactics and
rumors perpertrated by the au naturel cults and "natural "breeders...

Oh, so you´re saying they are stupid enough to buy those rumors if
those rumors were really just rumors?

Brilliant, Liz. Really brilliant...No, Liz, the damage caused by the rumors
and scare tactics is what led to the *request* for a reduction... even
though not a single case of ethoxyquin-related illness was *ever* reported
at the lvels allowed....Its called humoring the paranoid and gullible
fanatics....


You only see what you *want* to see.

You see what *isn't* there! I've ask you *many* times to produce a *single*
case of ethoxyquin-re;ated illness in a cat at the recommended levels...
Typical of au naturel fanatical innuendo and scare tactics, you
*failed*...and *failed* and *failed* again to produce a *single* case!


and because I am *sure* fatty liver
disease is caused by these artificial antioxidants

Like you're sure you can dissolve calcium oxalate uroliths in cats with....
*WATER* ???? LOL!!!! Maybe your ridiculous notions are why you're not in
the pharmaceutical industry anymore!!! LOL!!!

pointless remainder snipped