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#32
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From: (Steve Crane)
(PawsForThought) wrote in message ... Animal fat could be from any source, who knows? Ah wait, I just found this website: http://www.hillssciencediet.info/DEFINITION.htm Lauren Lauren, I'm begining to think you are purposefully being deceitful. You have "just found" that same website for months. Never mind that proof of the effectiveness of the very high levels of antioxidants matching those in AP have been published in peer reviewed journals. It should give a logically thinking grown-up some pause to wonder why 99.99% of all practicing veterinarians, EVERY board certified diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition, and every Board certified diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine refuses to endorse the BARF philosophy. You have to wonder what causes people to get so wrapped up in emotional judgements that they refuse to accept what hard scientific proof and every recognized expert suggests. I was simply showing this new Hill's food that I saw advertised. As to the link, I "just found" it in my bookmarks is what I meant. Sorry I didn't make that more clear to you. But I'm still curious, what exactly is Hill's using for its "animal fat"? Why do they use Brewer's Rice and not Whole Rice? Steve, why are you bring up BARF diet? My post never mentioned a raw diet. There are many, many vets who support a raw diet, just as there are those who don't. I go by my cats' health, and I won't lie about it. They are much healthier than they were on commercial catfood. We all have to decide what is the best to feed our animals. I never try to convince anyone to switch their cats to a raw diet because I know it involves lots of hard work, dedication and research to be done correctly. However, if the person really does want to switch their cats to a raw diet, I will help them if they ask. I got tired of the chronic diseases I was seeing in my cats and so I decided to do something about it in the only way I could, which was to feed them a fresh food diet. I realize that not everyone wants to do this and I will recommend a good quality commercial pet food. I think it really bothers you that I tell the truth about my experiences with Hill's Science Diet, which was that none of my cats ever did well on it. There was more volume of feces in the cat box, dry coats, some had diahrrea or vomited from it. Once I switched them to a different food, these things went away. I'm sorry, but Hill's just did not work for me, and I have family and friends who had similar experiences. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#33
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From: (Steve Crane)
(PawsForThought) wrote in message ... Animal fat could be from any source, who knows? Ah wait, I just found this website: http://www.hillssciencediet.info/DEFINITION.htm Lauren Lauren, I'm begining to think you are purposefully being deceitful. You have "just found" that same website for months. Never mind that proof of the effectiveness of the very high levels of antioxidants matching those in AP have been published in peer reviewed journals. It should give a logically thinking grown-up some pause to wonder why 99.99% of all practicing veterinarians, EVERY board certified diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition, and every Board certified diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine refuses to endorse the BARF philosophy. You have to wonder what causes people to get so wrapped up in emotional judgements that they refuse to accept what hard scientific proof and every recognized expert suggests. I was simply showing this new Hill's food that I saw advertised. As to the link, I "just found" it in my bookmarks is what I meant. Sorry I didn't make that more clear to you. But I'm still curious, what exactly is Hill's using for its "animal fat"? Why do they use Brewer's Rice and not Whole Rice? Steve, why are you bring up BARF diet? My post never mentioned a raw diet. There are many, many vets who support a raw diet, just as there are those who don't. I go by my cats' health, and I won't lie about it. They are much healthier than they were on commercial catfood. We all have to decide what is the best to feed our animals. I never try to convince anyone to switch their cats to a raw diet because I know it involves lots of hard work, dedication and research to be done correctly. However, if the person really does want to switch their cats to a raw diet, I will help them if they ask. I got tired of the chronic diseases I was seeing in my cats and so I decided to do something about it in the only way I could, which was to feed them a fresh food diet. I realize that not everyone wants to do this and I will recommend a good quality commercial pet food. I think it really bothers you that I tell the truth about my experiences with Hill's Science Diet, which was that none of my cats ever did well on it. There was more volume of feces in the cat box, dry coats, some had diahrrea or vomited from it. Once I switched them to a different food, these things went away. I'm sorry, but Hill's just did not work for me, and I have family and friends who had similar experiences. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#34
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In ,
Alison Perera being of bellicose mind posted: ..snip Please give an example of a disease caused by nutritional excess, other than obesity. -Alison in OH Indirectly, being obese leads to diabetes in people. How about cats? For that matter, obesity is a gateway condition to numerous other diseases. Not in cats? -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" |
#35
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In ,
Alison Perera being of bellicose mind posted: ..snip Please give an example of a disease caused by nutritional excess, other than obesity. -Alison in OH Indirectly, being obese leads to diabetes in people. How about cats? For that matter, obesity is a gateway condition to numerous other diseases. Not in cats? -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" |
#36
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In article . net,
"Philip ®" wrote: In , Alison Perera being of bellicose mind posted: .snip Please give an example of a disease caused by nutritional excess, other than obesity. -Alison in OH Indirectly, being obese leads to diabetes in people. How about cats? For that matter, obesity is a gateway condition to numerous other diseases. Not in cats? Obesity in cats is generally caused by the consumption of too many calories for the lifestyle of the cat. Since the owner of an indoor cat has complete control over the cat's intake, I don't consider this to be a failing in whatever complete commercial diet or other foodstuff that the cat is consuming. I'm more interested in the justification for restricting nutrients, including minerals, protein etc., in order to stave off some disease that is directly caused by excess. Yes, from what I understand obesity leads to diabetes in cats. Obesity is not a light-weight matter 8-O, it's just not the kind of thing I am looking for. -Alison in OH |
#37
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In article . net,
"Philip ®" wrote: In , Alison Perera being of bellicose mind posted: .snip Please give an example of a disease caused by nutritional excess, other than obesity. -Alison in OH Indirectly, being obese leads to diabetes in people. How about cats? For that matter, obesity is a gateway condition to numerous other diseases. Not in cats? Obesity in cats is generally caused by the consumption of too many calories for the lifestyle of the cat. Since the owner of an indoor cat has complete control over the cat's intake, I don't consider this to be a failing in whatever complete commercial diet or other foodstuff that the cat is consuming. I'm more interested in the justification for restricting nutrients, including minerals, protein etc., in order to stave off some disease that is directly caused by excess. Yes, from what I understand obesity leads to diabetes in cats. Obesity is not a light-weight matter 8-O, it's just not the kind of thing I am looking for. -Alison in OH |
#38
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In ,
Alison Perera being of bellicose mind posted: In article . net, "Philip ®" wrote: Indirectly, being obese leads to diabetes in people. How about cats? For that matter, obesity is a gateway condition to numerous other diseases. Not in cats? Obesity in cats is generally caused by the consumption of too many calories for the lifestyle of the cat. Oooo.... just like peoples! ;-) Since the owner of an indoor cat has complete control over the cat's intake, I don't consider this to be a failing in whatever complete commercial diet or other foodstuff that the cat is consuming. Such a pain having to dole out just enough food so the cat does not balloon out to twice its proper weight. Again, apparently I've been lucky all along. I can leave out 3 days worth of dry food and the cats have never attempted to inhale everything in sight the first day. BUT... there is a neighbor lady who does have a cat who is a roaming garbage disposal and then regurgitates what it has eaten if there is more fresh to be had. Weird. I'm more interested in the justification for restricting nutrients, including minerals, protein etc., in order to stave off some disease that is directly caused by excess. Yes, from what I understand obesity leads to diabetes in cats. Obesity is not a light-weight matter 8-O, it's just not the kind of thing I am looking for. -Alison in OH You've got a conclusion and are looking for supporting evidence. Not a good research discipline. -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" |
#39
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In ,
Alison Perera being of bellicose mind posted: In article . net, "Philip ®" wrote: Indirectly, being obese leads to diabetes in people. How about cats? For that matter, obesity is a gateway condition to numerous other diseases. Not in cats? Obesity in cats is generally caused by the consumption of too many calories for the lifestyle of the cat. Oooo.... just like peoples! ;-) Since the owner of an indoor cat has complete control over the cat's intake, I don't consider this to be a failing in whatever complete commercial diet or other foodstuff that the cat is consuming. Such a pain having to dole out just enough food so the cat does not balloon out to twice its proper weight. Again, apparently I've been lucky all along. I can leave out 3 days worth of dry food and the cats have never attempted to inhale everything in sight the first day. BUT... there is a neighbor lady who does have a cat who is a roaming garbage disposal and then regurgitates what it has eaten if there is more fresh to be had. Weird. I'm more interested in the justification for restricting nutrients, including minerals, protein etc., in order to stave off some disease that is directly caused by excess. Yes, from what I understand obesity leads to diabetes in cats. Obesity is not a light-weight matter 8-O, it's just not the kind of thing I am looking for. -Alison in OH You've got a conclusion and are looking for supporting evidence. Not a good research discipline. -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" |
#40
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In article . net,
"Philip ®" wrote: I'm more interested in the justification for restricting nutrients, including minerals, protein etc., in order to stave off some disease that is directly caused by excess. Yes, from what I understand obesity leads to diabetes in cats. Obesity is not a light-weight matter 8-O, it's just not the kind of thing I am looking for. -Alison in OH You've got a conclusion and are looking for supporting evidence. Not a good research discipline. You're right, I should rephrase. Steve says: Hill's has a tradition and history of treating disease with the Prescription Diet products. As a consequence the level so fnutrients like calcium and phosphorus that are so critical in renal failrue and other diseases get particular attention. As a consequence dietary development is always looking at the disease we see and trying to avoid them. 50 years ago we saw pets in veterinary clinics with examples of deficiencies in the diets, today we see only the results of excesses in the veterinary clinic. Ie, Hill's Science Diet is formulated to prevent nutritional excess. This is apparently a strong motivator for Hill's R & D for the pet market, and it's been repeated by folks such as Phil and Chris who believe strongly that Hill's research represents the pinnacle of dietary development. I ask Steve what an example of disease caused by nutritional excess is, because "dietary development is always looking at the disease we see and trying to avoid them [sic]". I am not expecting an answer that "obesity is a problem caused by nutritional excess" because then Hill's would be developing and marketing an educational campaign to get people to feed their cats less food--including Hill's food, of course. -Alison in OH |
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