Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box

"Phil P." wrote in message
ink.net...

PS: What did you think of labwork?

Are you referring to the blood results for your hyperthryoid cat? I
remember you mentioning you'd like me to look at the bloodwork but I thought
you didn't send it yet. Maybe it was bundled in with all the files you sent
me and I overlooked it. Send them again and I'll check them out and get
back to you

J.

"RalGrl" wrote in message
oups.com...

So, I added
another litter box to the house today ... right next to the original
one.

I don't think you should place the boxes right next to each another. This
might make one box inaccessible to the other cat if one cat is using one of
the boxes. Different rooms might be better. Put the boxes in quiet,
low-traffic area so that it provides privacy and security- cats feel very
vulnerable when they're doing their business. Make sure you can see the
boxes from a distance without disturbing the cat so you can observe their
litterbox behavior for signs of straining or pain.

Also, make sure there's more than one way out of the box so the cat won't
feel trapped in the box if the other cat approaches. One last suggestion:
don't put the boxes near any appliances or heating ducts that can go on
suddenly and startle the cat. If that happens just once- the cat won't use
that box again.



In the meantime I'll be taking them in to the vet to get checked out.

Good plan. Always rule out medical problems first.

Best of luck,

Phil

"J. dvm" wrote in message
...

"Phil P." wrote in message
ink.net...

PS: What did you think of labwork?

Are you referring to the blood results for your hyperthryoid cat? I
remember you mentioning you'd like me to look at the bloodwork but I
thought
you didn't send it yet. Maybe it was bundled in with all the files you
sent
me and I overlooked it. Send them again and I'll check them out and get
back to you

J.

I sent them separately- I'll send them again.

Btw, who were the behaviorists giving the lecture about the fluorescein
strips?

Phil

Phil P. wrote:
"RalGrl" wrote in message
oups.com...

So, I added
another litter box to the house today ... right next to the original
one.

I don't think you should place the boxes right next to each another. This
might make one box inaccessible to the other cat if one cat is using one of
the boxes. Different rooms might be better. Put the boxes in quiet,
low-traffic area so that it provides privacy and security- cats feel very
vulnerable when they're doing their business. Make sure you can see the
boxes from a distance without disturbing the cat so you can observe their
litterbox behavior for signs of straining or pain.

Also, make sure there's more than one way out of the box so the cat won't
feel trapped in the box if the other cat approaches. One last suggestion:
don't put the boxes near any appliances or heating ducts that can go on
suddenly and startle the cat. If that happens just once- the cat won't use
that box again.



In the meantime I'll be taking them in to the vet to get checked out.

Good plan. Always rule out medical problems first.

Best of luck,

Phil


Thank you very much for this advice. I just got off the phone with
their vet, and they want a urine sample from the one cat I'm taking in
first. This means locking her in my half-bathroom (a small space) with
a completely empty cat pan so that once she urinates I can collect that
sample and take her in. I feel SO BAD for having to confine her
because it's not like she understands. Breaks my heart. So, when I
get home from work tonight I guess I'll set that in motion. UGH!

Anyway, once again: thanks for the advice. It's very much appreciated.

Here's an update:
I called the vet today and explained the situation to the girl who
answered. She said I needed to bring in a urine sample along with the
cat. I've chosen to take the one I think is the culprit (Josie) first
and then take the others in a little later (stagger it week by week).
So, I came home over lunch today and put an empty cat pan in my half
bathroom and then put in a bowl each of food and water. I closed the
toilet lid and then put Josie in the bathroom and left.

Let me tell you... it broke my heart to be at work for the rest of the
day attending meetings, assigning out work, keeping things running,
doing my normal tasks knowing that that cat was stuck alone without her
sisters scared to death not understanding what was happening to her.

I checked on her after coming home from work and she hadn't peed in the
litter box. I had plans for dinner and did that. When I got home I
went in the bathroom to just hang with her. Bless her heart: there's
clumps of fur all over the little room and when I was in there she was
rubbing all over me. And then I discovered that she had peed down the
sink! Stupid me, I forgot to stop the drain on the sink. So as soon
as I realized that, I covered the sink with saran wrap and kept her in
there for a couple more hours. She was CONSTANTLY screaming. Finally,
I let her out. I'm going to take her to the vet and make THEM get the
urine sample. The amount of stress that she was going through, as well
as her sisters and me, was just too much. Let the vet deal with that.
That's part of their job.

Think about it: I put that precious little girl through 10+ hours of
solitary confinement for the sole purpose of collecting a urine sample
and it didn't happen. In the meantime, she was absolutely miserable,
and her sisters were mighty confused. Oh, and I was sad, too.

So, that's the update. But, the upside is that I now have physically
three litter boxes in the house, and just today they used the second
litter box (that was added two days ago).

Again, I just want to thank those of you who posted about this. These
girlies mean the world to me and I'm totally comitted to giving them
the best life I can. They're so rotten!!!!

Thanks all!!!



majcm wrote:
If you can do the webcam thing quickly, I'd try it to save money on taking
them all the the vet (although a web cam might cost more, I don't know) But
if it has just started in the last few days or weeks, one of them is most
likely ill. Males get kidney blockages fairly often and they start
associating the litter box with the pain of peeing. It also can kill them if
not caught quickly. My 14 yr old male developed diabetes and the first sign
was peeing outside box (also drinking A LOT and ravenously hungry all the
time). Extra drinking can also mean renal failure, which my 8 year old
female had after being born w/one kidney. If any of them are also drinking
more than usual, get them to the vet FAST. Both the diabetes and renal
failure are eventually fatal, but with commitment to either IV fluids or
insulin shots (vet can teach you to do both at home) and proper feeding,
Muffin (female) lived 3 more years and Domino (male) lived another year (he
also peed in our laundry baskets of clothes, too) So don't be afraid it's a
death sentence immediately if its one of those.

Probably it is one that started it and if the others are too, it's the smell
that says it's okay to pee there. Keep the closet closed and if you can't do
them webcam quickly, please take them all to the vet for a checkup. Good
luck and let us know how it goes.

"RalGrl" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,
I have a question about my cats urinating outside the litter box. I'm
hoping someone here might have some advice. I'll try to give as much
details as possible, but if you need to know more please ask.

I have three cats. Two of them I got on the same day from the same
place (not biological sisters) in Nov 2001 when they were no older than
7-8 weeks old. The third one was rescued in July 2002 when she was
about 6-7 weeks old. The resuced cat was traumatized when we think she
was about five weeks old (six at the latest). We think she was hit by
a car (that's a WHOLE different story). One of the other two is
epileptic, though the cause is unknown. The third seems to be totally
fine.

I scoop their box daily. They have plenty of litter in it. But for a
while now occasionally one of them (well, who knows... could be all of
them rotating, I wouldn't know) urinates in my closet. It has always
been contained to my dirty clothes basket. Last week I noticed that
someone had urinated on a pair of sneakers I had on the floor by the
basket. Tonight I just discovered someone urinated on a pile of
clothes that are on a shelf at a minimum of four feet up (probably
closer to five feet). **This is the first time something like this has
ever happened**

Obviously this is a problem. An immediate response I have is to close
them off to my bedroom whenever I'm not here (no matter how long I'm
gone). BUT, of course this won't stop them if I'm downstairs and in
the house, or if I'm at work, or even when I'm asleep. This is clearly
becoming a problem. I don't think it's possible or even kind (for lack
of a better word) for me to close them off from the bedroom at all
other times. BUHLIEVE ME! I've tried to sleep with the door closed
(they take up so much of the bed :-) but they literally fling their
bodies up against the door -- I know, because someone outside the door
witnessed it. So, that's not really an option. If I close the door
even when I'm home then I'd feel like I'm really alienating them. They
hang in my room when I'm not here because it's *my* room.

Another thing I've thought of is setting up a webcam to surveil the
closet. I swear, I'd watch the footage - minute by minute - to figure
this out. I'm hoping to see that it's only one of them and then take
her to the vet to have her checked out.

So, I have questions. Is this behavioral? Is it medical? Is it just
one of them marking her territory, or could it be more than one of
them? Is there something else I should do?

I'm absolutely committed to giving them the best life possible. The
four of us are very tight: whenever I'm home the three of them stick to
me like white on rice! But something's wrong and I want to figure it
out. I thought I'd ask you to see if you can help!

Thanks so much!

Hi RalGrl,
Are the litter boxes on carpeting or on hard flooring? If they
are on carpet, you might want to invest in a thick plastic mat from a
hardware store to put under them. One of my cats used to confuse the
feel of the litter with the carpet, and then she started to pee on
other throw rugs and soft things around the house. I got the carpet
professionally cleaned with an enzyme cleaner, added another box, and
the plastic mats under them and she stopped! Have you tried using
Feliway in your closet? You might want to try that! When they use
the litter box do they perch on the rim and touch the litter as little
as possible? That could be a sign that they don't like the brand of
litter. Make sure you don't use scented litter, either...they might not
like that. Good luck to you!

p.s. I highly recommend the book "Think Like A Cat...How to Raise a
Well-djusted Cat, Not a Sour Puss" by Pam Johnson-Bennett. It explains
pretty much everything about cat behavior (like going pee-pee on
Mommy's cloths!!) and it really helped me when my cat was doing that!


RalGrl wrote:
Here's an update:
I called the vet today and explained the situation to the girl who
answered. She said I needed to bring in a urine sample along with the
cat. I've chosen to take the one I think is the culprit (Josie) first
and then take the others in a little later (stagger it week by week).
So, I came home over lunch today and put an empty cat pan in my half
bathroom and then put in a bowl each of food and water. I closed the
toilet lid and then put Josie in the bathroom and left.

Let me tell you... it broke my heart to be at work for the rest of the
day attending meetings, assigning out work, keeping things running,
doing my normal tasks knowing that that cat was stuck alone without her
sisters scared to death not understanding what was happening to her.

I checked on her after coming home from work and she hadn't peed in the
litter box. I had plans for dinner and did that. When I got home I
went in the bathroom to just hang with her. Bless her heart: there's
clumps of fur all over the little room and when I was in there she was
rubbing all over me. And then I discovered that she had peed down the
sink! Stupid me, I forgot to stop the drain on the sink. So as soon
as I realized that, I covered the sink with saran wrap and kept her in
there for a couple more hours. She was CONSTANTLY screaming. Finally,
I let her out. I'm going to take her to the vet and make THEM get the
urine sample. The amount of stress that she was going through, as well
as her sisters and me, was just too much. Let the vet deal with that.
That's part of their job.

Think about it: I put that precious little girl through 10+ hours of
solitary confinement for the sole purpose of collecting a urine sample
and it didn't happen. In the meantime, she was absolutely miserable,
and her sisters were mighty confused. Oh, and I was sad, too.

So, that's the update. But, the upside is that I now have physically
three litter boxes in the house, and just today they used the second
litter box (that was added two days ago).

Again, I just want to thank those of you who posted about this. These
girlies mean the world to me and I'm totally comitted to giving them
the best life I can. They're so rotten!!!!

Thanks all!!!



majcm wrote:
If you can do the webcam thing quickly, I'd try it to save money on taking
them all the the vet (although a web cam might cost more, I don't know) But
if it has just started in the last few days or weeks, one of them is most
likely ill. Males get kidney blockages fairly often and they start
associating the litter box with the pain of peeing. It also can kill them if
not caught quickly. My 14 yr old male developed diabetes and the first sign
was peeing outside box (also drinking A LOT and ravenously hungry all the
time). Extra drinking can also mean renal failure, which my 8 year old
female had after being born w/one kidney. If any of them are also drinking
more than usual, get them to the vet FAST. Both the diabetes and renal
failure are eventually fatal, but with commitment to either IV fluids or
insulin shots (vet can teach you to do both at home) and proper feeding,
Muffin (female) lived 3 more years and Domino (male) lived another year (he
also peed in our laundry baskets of clothes, too) So don't be afraid it's a
death sentence immediately if its one of those.

Probably it is one that started it and if the others are too, it's the smell
that says it's okay to pee there. Keep the closet closed and if you can't do
them webcam quickly, please take them all to the vet for a checkup. Good
luck and let us know how it goes.

"RalGrl" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,
I have a question about my cats urinating outside the litter box. I'm
hoping someone here might have some advice. I'll try to give as much
details as possible, but if you need to know more please ask.

I have three cats. Two of them I got on the same day from the same
place (not biological sisters) in Nov 2001 when they were no older than
7-8 weeks old. The third one was rescued in July 2002 when she was
about 6-7 weeks old. The resuced cat was traumatized when we think she
was about five weeks old (six at the latest). We think she was hit by
a car (that's a WHOLE different story). One of the other two is
epileptic, though the cause is unknown. The third seems to be totally
fine.

I scoop their box daily. They have plenty of litter in it. But for a
while now occasionally one of them (well, who knows... could be all of
them rotating, I wouldn't know) urinates in my closet. It has always
been contained to my dirty clothes basket. Last week I noticed that
someone had urinated on a pair of sneakers I had on the floor by the
basket. Tonight I just discovered someone urinated on a pile of
clothes that are on a shelf at a minimum of four feet up (probably
closer to five feet). **This is the first time something like this has
ever happened**

Obviously this is a problem. An immediate response I have is to close
them off to my bedroom whenever I'm not here (no matter how long I'm
gone). BUT, of course this won't stop them if I'm downstairs and in
the house, or if I'm at work, or even when I'm asleep. This is clearly
becoming a problem. I don't think it's possible or even kind (for lack
of a better word) for me to close them off from the bedroom at all
other times. BUHLIEVE ME! I've tried to sleep with the door closed
(they take up so much of the bed :-) but they literally fling their
bodies up against the door -- I know, because someone outside the door
witnessed it. So, that's not really an option. If I close the door
even when I'm home then I'd feel like I'm really alienating them. They
hang in my room when I'm not here because it's *my* room.

Another thing I've thought of is setting up a webcam to surveil the
closet. I swear, I'd watch the footage - minute by minute - to figure
this out. I'm hoping to see that it's only one of them and then take
her to the vet to have her checked out.

So, I have questions. Is this behavioral? Is it medical? Is it just
one of them marking her territory, or could it be more than one of
them? Is there something else I should do?

I'm absolutely committed to giving them the best life possible. The
four of us are very tight: whenever I'm home the three of them stick to
me like white on rice! But something's wrong and I want to figure it
out. I thought I'd ask you to see if you can help!

Thanks so much!

furmanthecat wrote:
Hi RalGrl,
Are the litter boxes on carpeting or on hard flooring? If they
are on carpet, you might want to invest in a thick plastic mat from a
hardware store to put under them. One of my cats used to confuse the
feel of the litter with the carpet, and then she started to pee on
other throw rugs and soft things around the house. I got the carpet
professionally cleaned with an enzyme cleaner, added another box, and
the plastic mats under them and she stopped! Have you tried using
Feliway in your closet? You might want to try that! When they use
the litter box do they perch on the rim and touch the litter as little
as possible? That could be a sign that they don't like the brand of
litter. Make sure you don't use scented litter, either...they might not
like that. Good luck to you!

p.s. I highly recommend the book "Think Like A Cat...How to Raise a
Well-djusted Cat, Not a Sour Puss" by Pam Johnson-Bennett. It explains
pretty much everything about cat behavior (like going pee-pee on
Mommy's cloths!!) and it really helped me when my cat was doing that!

Hey! Thanks for your post. Their litter boxes are in my guest
bathroom (which is never used by other humans), so their boxes are on
tile flooring. They have a tendency to pee near the very opening of
the box, and poop in other areas of the box -- but they never do any
business outside the box. Their main box (read: their first box) was
the largest I found at PetSmart the day I got it. There's a second box
in there now, but it's considerably smaller than their original one. I
think they like the bigger box better, but they've just started using
the second one some, but not alot (it was added to the house last
week). I clean it twice a day.

The one I think is the guilty party is going to the vet tomorrow for
her annual shots and will have a urine test done. Then her sisters
will go in probably next week for the same thing. It's easier to not
take all three all at once.