Force feeding is not a lot of fun...a couple of questions please.

Hi All ~

16 year old CRF cat, Fatass, on day 6 of liquid therapy of 150ml/day of
NaCl...

Went to the supermaket yesterday and bought all kinds of stuff for Fats
to try...clam juice, canned mackerel and crabmeat, baby food, some
fancy feast in gravy...

I get home and see that she ate nothing that I left for her during the
day - I tried some mackerel, mackerel with clam juice, Fancy feast
chicken with gravy, k/d dry with clam juice, her usual wet
food..nothing.

So I decide she is going to eat, like it or not.

I grab the k/d canned, a towel, and some wet paper towels. I put Fats
on my lap at the kitchen table and try to open her mouth and shovel in
the food...I could get her mouth open, but she would turn her head at
the same time, which resulted in food all over her, me, the floor, and
the table...

Then I got smart.

I touched her whickers on the side of her mouth to get her lip to curl,
then I wiped the food on her teeth and gums. This seems to work,
although still a mess. She wasn't liking it but she wasn't trying too
hard to escape either. She just whined as she chewed & swallowed the
food.

If this is what I have to do, then I will do it, but I hope her
appetite comes back soon. I also started her on 1/4 tab of Pepcid
twice a day to see if that helps settle her stomach.

Two questions: How much should I give her at these food fight
sessions? I am lucky if I got 2 oz into her, but she also had about 20
pieces of hard treats and 1.5 inches of Nutri-gel. Secondly, how long
for the pepcid to kick in and possibly see an appetite improvement?

Thanks,


Bluesman - fighting the good fight

wrote:
Hi All ~

16 year old CRF cat, Fatass, on day 6 of liquid therapy of 150ml/day of
NaCl...

Went to the supermaket yesterday and bought all kinds of stuff for Fats
to try...clam juice, canned mackerel and crabmeat, baby food, some
fancy feast in gravy...

I get home and see that she ate nothing that I left for her during the
day - I tried some mackerel, mackerel with clam juice, Fancy feast
chicken with gravy, k/d dry with clam juice, her usual wet
food..nothing.

So I decide she is going to eat, like it or not.

I grab the k/d canned, a towel, and some wet paper towels. I put Fats
on my lap at the kitchen table and try to open her mouth and shovel in
the food...I could get her mouth open, but she would turn her head at
the same time, which resulted in food all over her, me, the floor, and
the table...

Then I got smart.

I touched her whickers on the side of her mouth to get her lip to curl,
then I wiped the food on her teeth and gums. This seems to work,
although still a mess. She wasn't liking it but she wasn't trying too
hard to escape either. She just whined as she chewed & swallowed the
food.

If this is what I have to do, then I will do it, but I hope her
appetite comes back soon. I also started her on 1/4 tab of Pepcid
twice a day to see if that helps settle her stomach.

Two questions: How much should I give her at these food fight
sessions? I am lucky if I got 2 oz into her, but she also had about 20
pieces of hard treats and 1.5 inches of Nutri-gel. Secondly, how long
for the pepcid to kick in and possibly see an appetite improvement?

Thanks,


Bluesman - fighting the good fight

Rock on, bluesman. FatAss is lucky to have you. I'm definitely not
the resident expert, but I'd ask your vet about the appetite stimulant
that the folks here have mentioned a few times over the last week or so.
I think it is called cyprophretadine or something to that effect (aka
periactin). This pill seemed to work wonders on appetites! *BEST* of
luck!!! Fatass is such a cutie! Plus, I just love the name!

Pam

wrote:
Hi All ~

16 year old CRF cat, Fatass, on day 6 of liquid therapy of 150ml/day of
NaCl...

Went to the supermaket yesterday and bought all kinds of stuff for Fats
to try...clam juice, canned mackerel and crabmeat, baby food, some
fancy feast in gravy...

I get home and see that she ate nothing that I left for her during the
day - I tried some mackerel, mackerel with clam juice, Fancy feast
chicken with gravy, k/d dry with clam juice, her usual wet
food..nothing.

So I decide she is going to eat, like it or not.

Many cats with CRF (I have one too) don't eat because their stomachs
are full of bile and they're nauseus. Of course, this creates a bad
situation because no food in tummy makes more acid and more acid makes
them not want to eat even more. Many folks with CRF cats give them
Pepcid to help calm their tummies down. You should speak with your vet
about something like this.

The other thing that has helped my CRF cat is to give him Nutrical for
Cats every day. This is vitamins and fatty acids in goop like hairball
remedy. I noticed that by giving Sasha Nutrical every day he's been
eating more. This could be because there's *something* in his stomach,
thus he's not feeling so sick and has an appetite, and it could also be
that with the extra nutrition, he's feeling less sick and has an
appetite. For whatever reason, what matters is that he's eating more.
I hope one (or both) of these possibilities helps your cat too. All my
best to you both!

dragon

Years ago, I had a cat with both CRF and IBD. She originally was given
only a few weeks to live "at most," but I was actually able to keep her
for another 3+ years. One of the problems I worked with that is
similar to your description is that she periodically would completely
lose her appetite and would not eat anything at all (first every 6
weeks, then closer together). My vet gave me some very large syringes
(*without needles,* of course), and I used them for force feeding. I
think that you would find that much more practical than trying to
"shovel" food into your cat. Even so, you will need to be very careful
not to cause your cat to gag. One of the most useful things during
that long period came as a result of a suggestion from my mother. I
would cook some chicken pieces (*with bones and skin*) for a very
*long* time. Cover the chicken with water and simmer uncovered until
the water has been reduced by *at least* one-half. Your goal is the
fluid that will be left, not the chicken itself -- although of course
you can also use that. Pour the fluid into a clean container and
refrigerate it, then skim off the fat. If you cooked it long enough
(and/or included enough chicken -- I used quite a lot for the amount of
water), you should now have a congealed substance instead of fluid.
This gel will contain lots of nutrients from the long cooking process.
Microwave a small amount (start with a couple of tablespoons) just long
enough to melt it and make it luke-warm -- *not hot.* Use your syringe
to force feed. Aim for the side of the back area of the throat -- not
the middle, because you could cause a gag-reflex action. This worked
wonders for Amber, and helped to stimulate her appetite. It is better
to use small amounts at frequent intervals instead of trying to force
feed a large amount at one time. During that period, I would also pour
a small amount over her food to encourage her to eat. Also: your cat
may need fluids, administered either by your vet or by you. Please
call your vet ASAP and ask about Ringer's lactate. Your cat can become
dehydrated very quickly, and fluids are essential. I often would find
a remarkable improvement in Amber's appetite after fluid therapy. This
can also be done at home, but make sure that your vet or a technician
shows you how to do it. You should also try to have someone available
to help you the first few times you do it.

Fortunately for me, it has been a long time since I needed to do any of
this; so I hope someone with more recent experience will add to this.
It's easy to forget some of the details as the years go by.

Good luck! You are going through a painful learning process, but it is
well worth it. As I said earlier, I was able to get an additional 3
years of time for Amber -- and most of it was "good years."

MaryL

Thanks for the replies everyone..I *am* using Pepcid and Nutri-Gel, and
Fats *is* on liquid therapy.

Syringes look like they would result in an even bigger mess than what I
had on my hands yesterday. I only give her fingertips full - I am not
trying to jam a 1/2 can in at once !

:-)

Anyway - any thoughts on HOW MUCH food she has to have daily? 2/3 of a
6oz can? More? Less?

And how long for Pepcid to kick in?

Thanks,


Bluesman

The idea of using the syringe is simply to make it easier to force feed
-- *not* to feed a large quantity. I mentioned a large syringe because
that provided a larger opening for the food. In actual fact, I only
used the syringe to feed small portions of food at a time. I recommend
that you try it -- I think you would find it easier and more practical
than what you are doing now. I placed the syringe at the corner of the
cat's mouth (*not* at the front or completely into the mouth) so that
only the short tip of the syring was actually within the teeth and
would gently push a small amount of food, aiming at the corner of the
throat (not the center).

As to the amount: I think you need to consult your vet about this
because there are many variables than can be important.

MaryL

Probably shoot for 2/3 of a can. That is much better than how she had been
doing.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the replies everyone..I *am* using Pepcid and Nutri-Gel, and
Fats *is* on liquid therapy.

Syringes look like they would result in an even bigger mess than what I
had on my hands yesterday. I only give her fingertips full - I am not
trying to jam a 1/2 can in at once !

:-)

Anyway - any thoughts on HOW MUCH food she has to have daily? 2/3 of a
6oz can? More? Less?

And how long for Pepcid to kick in?

Thanks,


Bluesman

wrote:
Hi All ~

16 year old CRF cat, Fatass, on day 6 of liquid therapy of 150ml/day of
NaCl...

Went to the supermaket yesterday and bought all kinds of stuff for Fats
to try...clam juice, canned mackerel and crabmeat, baby food, some
fancy feast in gravy...

I get home and see that she ate nothing that I left for her during the
day - I tried some mackerel, mackerel with clam juice, Fancy feast
chicken with gravy, k/d dry with clam juice, her usual wet
food..nothing.

So I decide she is going to eat, like it or not.

I grab the k/d canned, a towel, and some wet paper towels. I put Fats
on my lap at the kitchen table and try to open her mouth and shovel in
the food...I could get her mouth open, but she would turn her head at
the same time, which resulted in food all over her, me, the floor, and
the table...

Then I got smart.

I touched her whickers on the side of her mouth to get her lip to curl,
then I wiped the food on her teeth and gums. This seems to work,
although still a mess. She wasn't liking it but she wasn't trying too
hard to escape either. She just whined as she chewed & swallowed the
food.

If this is what I have to do, then I will do it, but I hope her
appetite comes back soon. I also started her on 1/4 tab of Pepcid
twice a day to see if that helps settle her stomach.

Two questions: How much should I give her at these food fight
sessions? I am lucky if I got 2 oz into her, but she also had about 20
pieces of hard treats and 1.5 inches of Nutri-gel. Secondly, how long
for the pepcid to kick in and possibly see an appetite improvement?

Thanks,


Bluesman - fighting the good fight

I have posted this before, but I went through the exact same thing with
my
cat, for a week and the vet was threatening to force feed him. If you
can
tell that he wants to eat, eg. wiping baby food around his mouth and he
licks it a bit, try the scrounge technique, something he really likes
to
scrounge off your plate, put him in the room, eat in front of him, put
the plate on the floor and walk out of the room. Watch through the
window and see what happens. Sometimes it can get to be psycological
with them. My cat started eating like this, after a week of me trying
everything in the shop.

Chris

I sympathize with you. Whenever Rusty was on antibiotic, he stopped eating.
I tried force feeding him and ended up with a
mess. One time he was on antibiotics for a month for a bladder
infection. I couldn't see him stopped eating for a month. Keep
calling the vet, who eventually changed his dosage to 1/2 pill
twice a day instead of 1 pill at a sitting. That certainly helped.
The first summer I got Rusty he was prescribed valium to jump
start his appetite. I was not good at pilling, since am. Rusty ended
up foaming in the mouth and gave me a scare.
The heat probably got to him. That was exactly 10 years ago. I just hope he
will not need to go on antibiotics again.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Winnie

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All ~

16 year old CRF cat, Fatass, on day 6 of liquid therapy of 150ml/day of
NaCl...

Went to the supermaket yesterday and bought all kinds of stuff for Fats
to try...clam juice, canned mackerel and crabmeat, baby food, some
fancy feast in gravy...

I get home and see that she ate nothing that I left for her during the
day - I tried some mackerel, mackerel with clam juice, Fancy feast
chicken with gravy, k/d dry with clam juice, her usual wet
food..nothing.

So I decide she is going to eat, like it or not.

I grab the k/d canned, a towel, and some wet paper towels. I put Fats
on my lap at the kitchen table and try to open her mouth and shovel in
the food...I could get her mouth open, but she would turn her head at
the same time, which resulted in food all over her, me, the floor, and
the table...

Then I got smart.

I touched her whickers on the side of her mouth to get her lip to curl,
then I wiped the food on her teeth and gums. This seems to work,
although still a mess. She wasn't liking it but she wasn't trying too
hard to escape either. She just whined as she chewed & swallowed the
food.

If this is what I have to do, then I will do it, but I hope her
appetite comes back soon. I also started her on 1/4 tab of Pepcid
twice a day to see if that helps settle her stomach.

Two questions: How much should I give her at these food fight
sessions? I am lucky if I got 2 oz into her, but she also had about 20
pieces of hard treats and 1.5 inches of Nutri-gel. Secondly, how long
for the pepcid to kick in and possibly see an appetite improvement?

Thanks,


Bluesman - fighting the good fight

W. Leong wrote:
I sympathize with you. Whenever Rusty was on antibiotic, he stopped eating.
I tried force feeding him and ended up with a
mess. One time he was on antibiotics for a month for a bladder
infection. I couldn't see him stopped eating for a month. Keep
calling the vet, who eventually changed his dosage to 1/2 pill
twice a day instead of 1 pill at a sitting. That certainly helped.
The first summer I got Rusty he was prescribed valium to jump
start his appetite. I was not good at pilling, since am. Rusty ended
up foaming in the mouth and gave me a scare.
The heat probably got to him. That was exactly 10 years ago. I just hope he
will not need to go on antibiotics again.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Winnie


My cat reacted badly to one antibiotic, was sick etc., then they
changed the
antibiotic and he was fine. If the antibiotic is making him sick, get
them
to change to another one.

Chris

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All ~

16 year old CRF cat, Fatass, on day 6 of liquid therapy of 150ml/day of
NaCl...

Went to the supermaket yesterday and bought all kinds of stuff for Fats
to try...clam juice, canned mackerel and crabmeat, baby food, some
fancy feast in gravy...

I get home and see that she ate nothing that I left for her during the
day - I tried some mackerel, mackerel with clam juice, Fancy feast
chicken with gravy, k/d dry with clam juice, her usual wet
food..nothing.

So I decide she is going to eat, like it or not.

I grab the k/d canned, a towel, and some wet paper towels. I put Fats
on my lap at the kitchen table and try to open her mouth and shovel in
the food...I could get her mouth open, but she would turn her head at
the same time, which resulted in food all over her, me, the floor, and
the table...

Then I got smart.

I touched her whickers on the side of her mouth to get her lip to curl,
then I wiped the food on her teeth and gums. This seems to work,
although still a mess. She wasn't liking it but she wasn't trying too
hard to escape either. She just whined as she chewed & swallowed the
food.

If this is what I have to do, then I will do it, but I hope her
appetite comes back soon. I also started her on 1/4 tab of Pepcid
twice a day to see if that helps settle her stomach.

Two questions: How much should I give her at these food fight
sessions? I am lucky if I got 2 oz into her, but she also had about 20
pieces of hard treats and 1.5 inches of Nutri-gel. Secondly, how long
for the pepcid to kick in and possibly see an appetite improvement?

Thanks,


Bluesman - fighting the good fight