declawing

In article ,
enlightened us with...

In article ,
enlightened us with...

If toes are all the same, why aren't dogs routinely declawed?


Dogs, cats, and humans all have bones in their toes. Sorry if
that's news to you.

And all bones are the same. Right.

You're just trying every tactic in the book to get out of your little
corner, aren't you?
Actually, most bones ARE the same, at least in the composition. The
arrangement with joints, size, thickness and such may be different, but
that has nothing to do with the fact that declawing is the amputation of
the last joint on the toe, period. No amount of twisting things around
will change that.



Because they don't use their claws the same way cats do.

You mean they don't scratch?

No, I mean they don't use their claws the same as cats do. Cats
scratch much differently than dogs, or hadn't you noticed?

What's that got to do with why dogs aren't routinely declawed?


Cats inconvenience owners more.
You have yet to bother to answer that yourself, though, so I'd say
you're just pulling things out of your nether regions again. You claimed
to know the "real" reason, yet have posted nothing.

Of course they do. They can cause more
damage with their claws than a cat. They scratch the furniture
when they make a "bed", they dig holes in yards, they scratch
people just by jumping on them.


Um, a trained dog does none of these things.
A trained cat must still scratch something.

If training was the answer to declawing, cats wouldn't get declawed
either.


Yeah, okay.
*sigh*
Training IS the answer to declawing.


There are many reasons why people want their dogs declawed. If
vets did everything their clients asked, there would be declawed
dogs running around. There's a reason that surgery isn't done.


What reason might that be?

You have yet to answer this.
Making stuff up again?

Declawing a cat does damage to the cat. Declawing a dog would do
damage as well. Since one may damage a cat, why not a dog?

They're not built the same. Do I need to give you an anatomy lesson
now, too?


Thanks, I'd rather learn from someone who actually knows and understands
facts. If they could read properly it would be a plus.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading
my hard disk?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

In article ,
enlightened us with...

In article ,
enlightened us with...

If toes are all the same, why aren't dogs routinely declawed?


Dogs, cats, and humans all have bones in their toes. Sorry if
that's news to you.

And all bones are the same. Right.

You're just trying every tactic in the book to get out of your little
corner, aren't you?
Actually, most bones ARE the same, at least in the composition. The
arrangement with joints, size, thickness and such may be different, but
that has nothing to do with the fact that declawing is the amputation of
the last joint on the toe, period. No amount of twisting things around
will change that.



Because they don't use their claws the same way cats do.

You mean they don't scratch?

No, I mean they don't use their claws the same as cats do. Cats
scratch much differently than dogs, or hadn't you noticed?

What's that got to do with why dogs aren't routinely declawed?


Cats inconvenience owners more.
You have yet to bother to answer that yourself, though, so I'd say
you're just pulling things out of your nether regions again. You claimed
to know the "real" reason, yet have posted nothing.

Of course they do. They can cause more
damage with their claws than a cat. They scratch the furniture
when they make a "bed", they dig holes in yards, they scratch
people just by jumping on them.


Um, a trained dog does none of these things.
A trained cat must still scratch something.

If training was the answer to declawing, cats wouldn't get declawed
either.


Yeah, okay.
*sigh*
Training IS the answer to declawing.


There are many reasons why people want their dogs declawed. If
vets did everything their clients asked, there would be declawed
dogs running around. There's a reason that surgery isn't done.


What reason might that be?

You have yet to answer this.
Making stuff up again?

Declawing a cat does damage to the cat. Declawing a dog would do
damage as well. Since one may damage a cat, why not a dog?

They're not built the same. Do I need to give you an anatomy lesson
now, too?


Thanks, I'd rather learn from someone who actually knows and understands
facts. If they could read properly it would be a plus.

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading
my hard disk?
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

kaeli wrote:

If training was the answer to declawing, cats wouldn't get declawed
either.


Yeah, okay.
*sigh*
Training IS the answer to declawing.

Exactly....the only reason cats are declawed in spite of training being the
answer is that some people are too lazy to train their cats, or just don't
know how.

kaeli wrote:

If training was the answer to declawing, cats wouldn't get declawed
either.


Yeah, okay.
*sigh*
Training IS the answer to declawing.

Exactly....the only reason cats are declawed in spite of training being the
answer is that some people are too lazy to train their cats, or just don't
know how.

Relish wrote:

If I had it to do all over again now that I've been educated?

I don't know...... ;-( I'll keep you posted on how he does if you
are interested.

Now that's not understandable. You just said you didn't know the
facts about declawing when you declawed. Now you do. What you did in
ignorance is much more forgiveable if you don't repeat the action in
the future (or in retrospect, the past).

I know what you mean, but I think what she meant is, she doesn't know how
she would have handled it, knowing what she knows, but still feeling
concerned for the baby, and not knowing how else to deal with the cat's
behavior. I mean, I completely agree with you, I don't think declawing is
the answer, and wouldn't expect someone to engage in it once they are in
possession of the facts, but it sounds like she feels lost as to what
options should have been used instead.

By the way, Katra, I found some really good articles about cats, including
one about aggression towards people, at http://www.catsinternational.org/
(and I know there are others out there). Hopefully, this will help, not
only with Shade - who may very well continue to act out, even without his
claws - but also if you come across this problem again in future, either
with a cat of yours, or with someone you know.

All the Best,
Ann

--

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak

Relish wrote:

If I had it to do all over again now that I've been educated?

I don't know...... ;-( I'll keep you posted on how he does if you
are interested.

Now that's not understandable. You just said you didn't know the
facts about declawing when you declawed. Now you do. What you did in
ignorance is much more forgiveable if you don't repeat the action in
the future (or in retrospect, the past).

I know what you mean, but I think what she meant is, she doesn't know how
she would have handled it, knowing what she knows, but still feeling
concerned for the baby, and not knowing how else to deal with the cat's
behavior. I mean, I completely agree with you, I don't think declawing is
the answer, and wouldn't expect someone to engage in it once they are in
possession of the facts, but it sounds like she feels lost as to what
options should have been used instead.

By the way, Katra, I found some really good articles about cats, including
one about aggression towards people, at http://www.catsinternational.org/
(and I know there are others out there). Hopefully, this will help, not
only with Shade - who may very well continue to act out, even without his
claws - but also if you come across this problem again in future, either
with a cat of yours, or with someone you know.

All the Best,
Ann

--

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak

In article ,
Katra wrote:

If Shade (aka Booger) had not been given so many chances over the past 2
years of his life, if he had not been REPEATEDLY so aggressive towards
anything that disturbed him, and shown a marked jealousy of the baby,
the outcome might have been different. All I ask is not forgiveness, but
just an understanding of what WE felt we were dealing with, and the fact
that we really did not know how badly we were maiming this animal. I
have never, ever declawed a cat before.

Well, here I am being trolled again. But in case this isn't a
fabrication, I'll say yeah. I understand the impulse, the reflex due to
shock, that might lead someone to follow a drastic course of action like
this. However, I don't understand your need to aggressively defend said
course of action. Coming on this newsgroup and saying "Tell me it was OK
to declaw this cat" is like saying to a group of animal welfare
activists that it's OK to club baby seals. You will never change
someone's mind, the best you can do is get them very very worked up and
upset about the whole ordeal. Which was apparently your point.

Food. Canned food and amount. To date, I've judged the amount of canned
food my gang gets by how much they eat. I used to feed 4 cans and they
licked the pans clean and went looking for more. I increased it to 5
cans, and now they leave some. The large cans of Whiskas are 21.2 oz. x
5 cans is 106 oz. for 36 cats, comes out to 2.94 oz. per cat.

Someone else calculated it earlier and they were way off. ;-) I think
they were thinking of the smaller can size...

Is this enough? Should I offer canned food twice per day instead of only
once? I've already been told I should discontinue the free-fed kibbles.
I'm not sure how the cats would feel about that, considering how
strongly they let me know about it if I accidentally let the bowls run
out. ;-) I like to let the kibble crocks get as low as possible before
re-filling to avoid leaving stale food.

My cats get about 6 ounces of premium (ie calorie-dense and highly
digestible) canned food each per day, or sometimes 3 oz canned and
1/8-1/4 c. kibble. But I don't have 36 cats to feed. If I did I think
I'd go to a good yet economical brand of kibble (Sensible Choice comes
to mind) and fill the bowl once per day, probably in the evening, with
an appropriate amount for the number of cats to be fed. Then once per
day I'd feed each animal an individual portion of canned food.

Since this will undoubtedly raise your food bill I'd like to offer some
unsolicited advice on reducing your vet bill concurrently. By going to
the reduced vaccine protocol now followed by vet hospitals (TXA&M,
http://www.doglogic.com/vaccinearts.htm; CSU
http://www.vth.colostate.edu/vth/savp2.html) and professional
organizations (AAFP, http://aafponline.org/about/guidelines.htm) you can
cut your cost for vaccines to a third or less.

By learning how to do a simple physical at home for your young healthy
cats (here from a vet school curriculum
http://education.vetmed.vt.edu/Curri...ct/Techniques/
index.htm and here from a pet first aid site
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...&S=0&C=0&A=292) you
might not even have to bring them in more than every few years. The
physical is the most important part of the visit though, and not
everyone wants to risk skipping it.

In addition spending one-on-one time with each animal will help you to
recognize problems early. This might be tough without bringing your
"problem cats" in from off the porch.

For your older cats I'd do at least one vet visit, preferably two, per
year and a basic geriatric blood chemistry profile yearly as well. I'd
start that routine at 8-10 years of age. This way you catch problems
early and avoid expensive treatments.

HTH,
Alison in OH

In article ,
Katra wrote:

If Shade (aka Booger) had not been given so many chances over the past 2
years of his life, if he had not been REPEATEDLY so aggressive towards
anything that disturbed him, and shown a marked jealousy of the baby,
the outcome might have been different. All I ask is not forgiveness, but
just an understanding of what WE felt we were dealing with, and the fact
that we really did not know how badly we were maiming this animal. I
have never, ever declawed a cat before.

Well, here I am being trolled again. But in case this isn't a
fabrication, I'll say yeah. I understand the impulse, the reflex due to
shock, that might lead someone to follow a drastic course of action like
this. However, I don't understand your need to aggressively defend said
course of action. Coming on this newsgroup and saying "Tell me it was OK
to declaw this cat" is like saying to a group of animal welfare
activists that it's OK to club baby seals. You will never change
someone's mind, the best you can do is get them very very worked up and
upset about the whole ordeal. Which was apparently your point.

Food. Canned food and amount. To date, I've judged the amount of canned
food my gang gets by how much they eat. I used to feed 4 cans and they
licked the pans clean and went looking for more. I increased it to 5
cans, and now they leave some. The large cans of Whiskas are 21.2 oz. x
5 cans is 106 oz. for 36 cats, comes out to 2.94 oz. per cat.

Someone else calculated it earlier and they were way off. ;-) I think
they were thinking of the smaller can size...

Is this enough? Should I offer canned food twice per day instead of only
once? I've already been told I should discontinue the free-fed kibbles.
I'm not sure how the cats would feel about that, considering how
strongly they let me know about it if I accidentally let the bowls run
out. ;-) I like to let the kibble crocks get as low as possible before
re-filling to avoid leaving stale food.

My cats get about 6 ounces of premium (ie calorie-dense and highly
digestible) canned food each per day, or sometimes 3 oz canned and
1/8-1/4 c. kibble. But I don't have 36 cats to feed. If I did I think
I'd go to a good yet economical brand of kibble (Sensible Choice comes
to mind) and fill the bowl once per day, probably in the evening, with
an appropriate amount for the number of cats to be fed. Then once per
day I'd feed each animal an individual portion of canned food.

Since this will undoubtedly raise your food bill I'd like to offer some
unsolicited advice on reducing your vet bill concurrently. By going to
the reduced vaccine protocol now followed by vet hospitals (TXA&M,
http://www.doglogic.com/vaccinearts.htm; CSU
http://www.vth.colostate.edu/vth/savp2.html) and professional
organizations (AAFP, http://aafponline.org/about/guidelines.htm) you can
cut your cost for vaccines to a third or less.

By learning how to do a simple physical at home for your young healthy
cats (here from a vet school curriculum
http://education.vetmed.vt.edu/Curri...ct/Techniques/
index.htm and here from a pet first aid site
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...&S=0&C=0&A=292) you
might not even have to bring them in more than every few years. The
physical is the most important part of the visit though, and not
everyone wants to risk skipping it.

In addition spending one-on-one time with each animal will help you to
recognize problems early. This might be tough without bringing your
"problem cats" in from off the porch.

For your older cats I'd do at least one vet visit, preferably two, per
year and a basic geriatric blood chemistry profile yearly as well. I'd
start that routine at 8-10 years of age. This way you catch problems
early and avoid expensive treatments.

HTH,
Alison in OH

Katra wrote:

Any comments on the cat feeding thing?

I've heard that it's better to feed twice a day, and maybe leave a bit of
dry out for them to nibble on in between. Hopefully someone else will be
able to verify this or give a more expert opinion.

And while it does sound like your experience with animals is a bit
unusual/extreme, it does sound like you take very good care of them, and
that's the main thing.

Ann

--

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak

Katra wrote:

Any comments on the cat feeding thing?

I've heard that it's better to feed twice a day, and maybe leave a bit of
dry out for them to nibble on in between. Hopefully someone else will be
able to verify this or give a more expert opinion.

And while it does sound like your experience with animals is a bit
unusual/extreme, it does sound like you take very good care of them, and
that's the main thing.

Ann

--

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak