Can a Caboodle Ranch ever work?

I always figured that if I won a lottery I'd like to set up a cat
sanctuary. But I could never figure out how it's possible for a small
number of staff members to take care of a large number of free-range
cats. My cats have little RF tracking devices on their collars so I
can find them when I have to. But collars do fall off and for a large
number of cats it would be necessary to embed something in the body
and I don't think we have those yet.

And I often figure out that something is wrong with a cat by minor
changes in behavior - how can anyone do that with a large number of
cats that you aren't very familiar with? Once illness breaks out, even
a cold, it's going to make the rounds. Sort of like a giant
kindergarden class.

I have a problem just getting my four to eat properly. One doesn't
like anything and would be perfectly happy to starve; I have to
practically force feed him. Another will keep eating until he bursts.
Obviously feeding them at the same time and place is tricky. And two
other cats are trying to eat at the same time. How can food be
regulated with hundreds of cats essentially free-feeding?

Feral cats will hide as far away as possible I would think. Plus there
is waste disposal. How do you take care of hundreds of cat poops and
the smell of hundreds of cats peeing.

Kittens should never be a problem though; you just don't let any
intact animals into the general population.

I don't see how this can work.

"dgk" wrote in message
...
I always figured that if I won a lottery I'd like to set up a cat
sanctuary. But I could never figure out how it's possible for a small
number of staff members to take care of a large number of free-range
cats. My cats have little RF tracking devices on their collars so I
can find them when I have to. But collars do fall off and for a large
number of cats it would be necessary to embed something in the body
and I don't think we have those yet.

And I often figure out that something is wrong with a cat by minor
changes in behavior - how can anyone do that with a large number of
cats that you aren't very familiar with? Once illness breaks out, even
a cold, it's going to make the rounds. Sort of like a giant
kindergarden class.

I have a problem just getting my four to eat properly. One doesn't
like anything and would be perfectly happy to starve; I have to
practically force feed him. Another will keep eating until he bursts.
Obviously feeding them at the same time and place is tricky. And two
other cats are trying to eat at the same time. How can food be
regulated with hundreds of cats essentially free-feeding?

Feral cats will hide as far away as possible I would think. Plus there
is waste disposal. How do you take care of hundreds of cat poops and
the smell of hundreds of cats peeing.

Kittens should never be a problem though; you just don't let any
intact animals into the general population.

I don't see how this can work.

It cannot work if you do not have lots of staff.

On Mar 14, 12:04*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:


It cannot work if you do not have lots of staff.-

Exactly if I won the lottery I would open a shelter (If I won big time
because it's obviously not going to be cheap) but I'd reckon on
roughly (this is off the top of my head so feel free to correct me)
one person per 25 cats to do feeds/litter trays/ play with their cats/
groom/handle (I'd be putting them up for adoption the best shelter in
the World is a poor substitute for a forever home). One supervisor
to make sure everything is done right. At least 2-4 night staff to
deal with any problems ideally 1 vet on site with accomodation
provided or failing that 2 vet techs on at night and a vet on call at
night plus visiting at least 2-3 times a week and 4-5 vet nurses/techs
during the day to tend to sick cats. A couple of portering/
handyperson staff to deal with anything from repairs to moving stuff,
a professional fund raiser (Without donations I'd go through millions
very quickly), 1 IT manager/website designer (donations again), 2-3
people to handle rehoming checks, a receptionist/switchboard operator.
a secretary/PA (to hold it all together), an admin assistant and
probably with that amount of staff it would be cost effective to
employ an HR person rather than source it out ditto an accountant and
someoene to clean the offices etc

Obviously I'd be relying a lot on volunteers....

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

Lesley wrote:

On Mar 14, 12:04*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:


It cannot work if you do not have lots of staff.-

Exactly if I won the lottery I would open a shelter (If I won big time
because it's obviously not going to be cheap) but I'd reckon on
roughly (this is off the top of my head so feel free to correct me)
one person per 25 cats to do feeds/litter trays/ play with their cats/
groom/handle (I'd be putting them up for adoption the best shelter in
the World is a poor substitute for a forever home). One supervisor
to make sure everything is done right. At least 2-4 night staff to
deal with any problems ideally 1 vet on site with accomodation
provided or failing that 2 vet techs on at night and a vet on call at
night plus visiting at least 2-3 times a week and 4-5 vet nurses/techs
during the day to tend to sick cats. A couple of portering/
handyperson staff to deal with anything from repairs to moving stuff,
a professional fund raiser (Without donations I'd go through millions
very quickly), 1 IT manager/website designer (donations again), 2-3
people to handle rehoming checks, a receptionist/switchboard operator.
a secretary/PA (to hold it all together), an admin assistant and
probably with that amount of staff it would be cost effective to
employ an HR person rather than source it out ditto an accountant and
someoene to clean the offices etc

Obviously I'd be relying a lot on volunteers....

In which case, don't forget to hire someone to manage the volunteers.

--
Joyce

"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you
come alive and then go do that. Because what the world needs is people
who have come alive." -- Howard Thurman

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:39:59 -0700 (PDT), Lesley
wrote:

On Mar 14, 12:04*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:


It cannot work if you do not have lots of staff.-

Exactly if I won the lottery I would open a shelter (If I won big time
because it's obviously not going to be cheap) but I'd reckon on
roughly (this is off the top of my head so feel free to correct me)
one person per 25 cats to do feeds/litter trays/ play with their cats/
groom/handle (I'd be putting them up for adoption the best shelter in
the World is a poor substitute for a forever home). One supervisor
to make sure everything is done right. At least 2-4 night staff to
deal with any problems ideally 1 vet on site with accomodation
provided or failing that 2 vet techs on at night and a vet on call at
night plus visiting at least 2-3 times a week and 4-5 vet nurses/techs
during the day to tend to sick cats. A couple of portering/
handyperson staff to deal with anything from repairs to moving stuff,
a professional fund raiser (Without donations I'd go through millions
very quickly), 1 IT manager/website designer (donations again), 2-3
people to handle rehoming checks, a receptionist/switchboard operator.
a secretary/PA (to hold it all together), an admin assistant and
probably with that amount of staff it would be cost effective to
employ an HR person rather than source it out ditto an accountant and
someoene to clean the offices etc

Obviously I'd be relying a lot on volunteers....

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

That seems like a pretty good breakdown. In other words, it can't be
done. There is no way that donations can possibly cover the expenses
and yes, it would go through even a lottery win pretty quickly.

No vet can continuously donate time. I guess you can get retired
people willing to volunteer some time, but you'd better build this
thing right near a retirement community. Or inside it.

"dgk" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:39:59 -0700 (PDT), Lesley
wrote:

On Mar 14, 12:04 pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:


It cannot work if you do not have lots of staff.-

Exactly if I won the lottery I would open a shelter (If I won big time
because it's obviously not going to be cheap) but I'd reckon on
roughly (this is off the top of my head so feel free to correct me)
one person per 25 cats to do feeds/litter trays/ play with their cats/
groom/handle (I'd be putting them up for adoption the best shelter in
the World is a poor substitute for a forever home). One supervisor
to make sure everything is done right. At least 2-4 night staff to
deal with any problems ideally 1 vet on site with accomodation
provided or failing that 2 vet techs on at night and a vet on call at
night plus visiting at least 2-3 times a week and 4-5 vet nurses/techs
during the day to tend to sick cats. A couple of portering/
handyperson staff to deal with anything from repairs to moving stuff,
a professional fund raiser (Without donations I'd go through millions
very quickly), 1 IT manager/website designer (donations again), 2-3
people to handle rehoming checks, a receptionist/switchboard operator.
a secretary/PA (to hold it all together), an admin assistant and
probably with that amount of staff it would be cost effective to
employ an HR person rather than source it out ditto an accountant and
someoene to clean the offices etc

Obviously I'd be relying a lot on volunteers....

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

That seems like a pretty good breakdown. In other words, it can't be
done. There is no way that donations can possibly cover the expenses
and yes, it would go through even a lottery win pretty quickly.

No vet can continuously donate time. I guess you can get retired
people willing to volunteer some time, but you'd better build this
thing right near a retirement community. Or inside it.

It was a good idea that went horribly wrong and I do have patience about
rescue and how we'd all like to save them all. But we can't.
Whether the volunteer of the Cat's Protection League with a disgustingly
stinky house deserved Boyfriend No. No way.
That was his alternative to me keeping him. So I did

On 14/03/2012 12:05 AM, dgk wrote:
I always figured that if I won a lottery I'd like to set up a cat
sanctuary. But I could never figure out how it's possible for a small
number of staff members to take care of a large number of free-range
cats. My cats have little RF tracking devices on their collars so I
can find them when I have to. But collars do fall off and for a large
number of cats it would be necessary to embed something in the body
and I don't think we have those yet.

And I often figure out that something is wrong with a cat by minor
changes in behavior - how can anyone do that with a large number of
cats that you aren't very familiar with? Once illness breaks out, even
a cold, it's going to make the rounds. Sort of like a giant
kindergarden class.

I have a problem just getting my four to eat properly. One doesn't
like anything and would be perfectly happy to starve; I have to
practically force feed him. Another will keep eating until he bursts.
Obviously feeding them at the same time and place is tricky. And two
other cats are trying to eat at the same time. How can food be
regulated with hundreds of cats essentially free-feeding?

Feral cats will hide as far away as possible I would think. Plus there
is waste disposal. How do you take care of hundreds of cat poops and
the smell of hundreds of cats peeing.

Kittens should never be a problem though; you just don't let any
intact animals into the general population.

I don't see how this can work.

Its all about scale and what one would deem "adequate care". Obviously a
forever home with a doting hoomin or hoomins is ideal. But even the best
run shelters don't provide that degree of care.

So, based on the number of hoomin labour available, the money available
and the space available, what is the maximum number of animals that can
be sustained at at least the level of care that doesn't get the R/ASPCA
pressing charges and confiscating animals?

We know hoarders generally start out with the best of intentions: they
know that they love cats, don't want to see them destroyed, and can give
a good loving home to them. Perhaps the fell ill for a while, or lost
their job etc etc and suddenly, or took on a "difficult" case, or even
just adopted one too many - and suddenly they find they can no longer
provide an adequate level of care all the time. But they're already in
too deep, they love their wards, and can't stand the thought of any of
them being destroyed. So maybe a spayneuter gets put back a bit and then
there's kittens etc etc etc. It takes an extremely strong person to
realise that the can no longer look after so many and "divest" some or
all of their kitties. Most hang on, hoping things will get better,
thinking that no matter how bad things got "I wouldn't get rid of my
children...". And then you have an animal welfare problem borne out of
the best of intentions.

I think that that is what may have happened at Caboodle. Their
intentions were noble. They tried hard. They did the very best they
could. But they were overwhelmed. And instead of saying "no", or
euthanising, they kept trying and trying and trying and then something
went wrong (which they may have recovered from, and may not) and once it
went wrong, the ASPCA pounced.

Yowie

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
On 14/03/2012 12:05 AM, dgk wrote:
I always figured that if I won a lottery I'd like to set up a cat
sanctuary. But I could never figure out how it's possible for a small
number of staff members to take care of a large number of free-range
cats. My cats have little RF tracking devices on their collars so I
can find them when I have to. But collars do fall off and for a large
number of cats it would be necessary to embed something in the body
and I don't think we have those yet.

And I often figure out that something is wrong with a cat by minor
changes in behavior - how can anyone do that with a large number of
cats that you aren't very familiar with? Once illness breaks out, even
a cold, it's going to make the rounds. Sort of like a giant
kindergarden class.

I have a problem just getting my four to eat properly. One doesn't
like anything and would be perfectly happy to starve; I have to
practically force feed him. Another will keep eating until he bursts.
Obviously feeding them at the same time and place is tricky. And two
other cats are trying to eat at the same time. How can food be
regulated with hundreds of cats essentially free-feeding?

Feral cats will hide as far away as possible I would think. Plus there
is waste disposal. How do you take care of hundreds of cat poops and
the smell of hundreds of cats peeing.

Kittens should never be a problem though; you just don't let any
intact animals into the general population.

I don't see how this can work.

Its all about scale and what one would deem "adequate care". Obviously a
forever home with a doting hoomin or hoomins is ideal. But even the best
run shelters don't provide that degree of care.

So, based on the number of hoomin labour available, the money available
and the space available, what is the maximum number of animals that can be
sustained at at least the level of care that doesn't get the R/ASPCA
pressing charges and confiscating animals?

We know hoarders generally start out with the best of intentions: they
know that they love cats, don't want to see them destroyed, and can give a
good loving home to them. Perhaps the fell ill for a while, or lost their
job etc etc and suddenly, or took on a "difficult" case, or even just
adopted one too many - and suddenly they find they can no longer provide
an adequate level of care all the time. But they're already in too deep,
they love their wards, and can't stand the thought of any of them being
destroyed. So maybe a spayneuter gets put back a bit and then there's
kittens etc etc etc. It takes an extremely strong person to realise that
the can no longer look after so many and "divest" some or all of their
kitties. Most hang on, hoping things will get better, thinking that no
matter how bad things got "I wouldn't get rid of my children...". And then
you have an animal welfare problem borne out of the best of intentions.

I think that that is what may have happened at Caboodle. Their intentions
were noble. They tried hard. They did the very best they could. But they
were overwhelmed. And instead of saying "no", or euthanising, they kept
trying and trying and trying and then something went wrong (which they may
have recovered from, and may not) and once it went wrong, the ASPCA
pounced.


I agree with you. I do think something like Caboodle is a great idea. But
we cannot save all the cats in the world if we want to give them a good
life. I know my limit is two if I am to afford vets bills
KFC nearly cleared out my bank account in vets bills towards the end of her
life.
And that's why I would never have more than two.
Tweed

Christina Websell wrote:

Whether the volunteer of the Cat's Protection League with a disgustingly
stinky house deserved Boyfriend No. No way.
That was his alternative to me keeping him. So I did

I'm very glad you did.

For the record, in case anyone gets the wrong idea about Cats Protection
- within the last 5 years CP head office has begun inspections of every
single fosterer's facilities on an annual basis, to make sure they are
of a suitable standard and adhere to all the hygiene guidelines. In my
former branch I know of a couple of fosterers that were quietly retired
as they didn't meet the standard and could not adapt to do so. Both very
elderly ladies who could not really cope any more. I am sure the person
you encountered will since have been helped to improve the conditions,
or (more likely) will not now be fostering.

Deb.
--
http://www.scientific-art.com

"He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would;
He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield

"Debbie Wilson" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

Whether the volunteer of the Cat's Protection League with a disgustingly
stinky house deserved Boyfriend No. No way.
That was his alternative to me keeping him. So I did

I'm very glad you did.

For the record, in case anyone gets the wrong idea about Cats Protection
- within the last 5 years CP head office has begun inspections of every
single fosterer's facilities on an annual basis, to make sure they are
of a suitable standard and adhere to all the hygiene guidelines. In my
former branch I know of a couple of fosterers that were quietly retired
as they didn't meet the standard and could not adapt to do so. Both very
elderly ladies who could not really cope any more. I am sure the person
you encountered will since have been helped to improve the conditions,
or (more likely) will not now be fostering.


I'm sure she wasn't typical of CPL fosterers, Deb, and I am glad to hear
that fosterer's premises are now being inspected yearly. She was indeed
elderly and I found out afterwards her husband had died a couple of years
before and she obviously wasn't coping. She should have told her local
group to help her before it got to that state really, but I suppose she
didn't want to stop helping and once it gets past a certain point there is
shame involved. The secret is to ask for help before the best of intentions
get out of control but I don't know that can be achieved unless everyone who
rescues is inspected now and again.

I don't think she lives there now, as the house she lived in was in a dire
state externally too and now it looks pristine.

I'd like to think that if she is living elsewhere, she has one or two cats
that she can cope with to comfort her.

In a strange way, I am glad I had that experience of seeing, or rather
smelling, rescue out of control. Otherwise I would not have kept Boyfriend
and missed the chance of having of a unique (IMO!) gentleman cat who loves
me madly and is so, so gentle.
KFC was not a good advert for taking a cat in, for a doglover. She was *so*
fierce, but of course I gave her good care until the end of her life. What
I didn't want was another one the same and that is why I tried to offload
him.
I thought he would be like her.

Tweed