KFC

wrote in message
...

I think the vet said not to give fluids. For some reason, it's
not easily
available in the UK, for pet owners to bring home and
administer themselves.
I think I remember Adrian saying it was illegal. I don't
understand why.

Firstly, purrs, prayers, hugs and skritches for KFC and Tweed. I
really do hope it's not her time for the Bridge.

Secondly, I'll explain what I have heard as to why it's illegal
in the UK for anyone other that a vet to medicate an animal.

The reasoning is something like this. Your neighbour could remove
your appendix for you, even if they're not qualified or trained
to do so - provided that it had been fully explained to you, and
you agreed. That's called "informed consent". Now, whilst most of
us believe that our cats (or other animals) CAN talk to us, and
that they understand what we say, the law believes that they can
do neither. Therefore, they are unable to give "informed
consent". So, it has to be entrusted to someone who can make the
decision on their behalf - i.e. a veterinary surgeon - much the
same as a parent giving permission for a surgeon to carry out a
procedure on their child.

--
MatSav

On Jun 26, 6:05*pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
There is not much improvement. *She eats a tablespoon of roast chicken per
day, that is all, so gets frailer and frailer. *She will not entertain any
other food.
I am not happy that the vet has not addressed her diarrhoea problems since
she was kidnapped, she had perfect poo until then, it's obvious to me that
if her bowels keep contracting she will not want to eat.
I have to clean up and scrub my carpets every day, I do not mind that she is
taken short before she can get to the litter box. *I expect it.
She is bright, so bright and cheerful that I really do think I can keep her
going for a bit longer. *I'd like her to have one more summer, but the
summer I wanted for her was outside, basking, and now I am too afraid to let
her out -(
I need to think.

I wanted to also add that bringing some of her poo (a fresh sample is
best) in for analysis will likely give you a quick answer as to the
cause of her Diarrhea and how to treat it. She may have Salmonella ,
giardia, coccidia or a parasite as a result of exposure to an outside
source.

"MatSav" matthew | dot | savage | at | dsl | dot | pipex | dot | com wrote
in message ...
wrote in message
...

I think the vet said not to give fluids. For some reason, it's not easily
available in the UK, for pet owners to bring home and administer
themselves.
I think I remember Adrian saying it was illegal. I don't understand why.

Firstly, purrs, prayers, hugs and skritches for KFC and Tweed. I really do
hope it's not her time for the Bridge.

Secondly, I'll explain what I have heard as to why it's illegal in the UK
for anyone other that a vet to medicate an animal.

The reasoning is something like this. Your neighbour could remove your
appendix for you, even if they're not qualified or trained to do so -
provided that it had been fully explained to you, and you agreed. That's
called "informed consent". Now, whilst most of us believe that our cats
(or other animals) CAN talk to us, and that they understand what we say,
the law believes that they can do neither. Therefore, they are unable to
give "informed consent". So, it has to be entrusted to someone who can
make the decision on their behalf - i.e. a veterinary surgeon - much the
same as a parent giving permission for a surgeon to carry out a procedure
on their child.

--
MatSav

Giving subcutaneous fluids isn't medicating. I don't know about the UK, but
it's legal to do that in the U.S. Both my daughter and I have done it.

Joy

"Joy" wrote in message
.. .
"MatSav" matthew | dot | savage | at | dsl | dot | pipex | dot | com
wrote in message ...
wrote in message
...

I think the vet said not to give fluids. For some reason, it's not
easily
available in the UK, for pet owners to bring home and administer
themselves.
I think I remember Adrian saying it was illegal. I don't understand why.

Firstly, purrs, prayers, hugs and skritches for KFC and Tweed. I really
do hope it's not her time for the Bridge.

Secondly, I'll explain what I have heard as to why it's illegal in the UK
for anyone other that a vet to medicate an animal.

The reasoning is something like this. Your neighbour could remove your
appendix for you, even if they're not qualified or trained to do so -
provided that it had been fully explained to you, and you agreed. That's
called "informed consent". Now, whilst most of us believe that our cats
(or other animals) CAN talk to us, and that they understand what we say,
the law believes that they can do neither. Therefore, they are unable to
give "informed consent". So, it has to be entrusted to someone who can
make the decision on their behalf - i.e. a veterinary surgeon - much the
same as a parent giving permission for a surgeon to carry out a procedure
on their child.

--
MatSav

Giving subcutaneous fluids isn't medicating. I don't know about the UK,
but it's legal to do that in the U.S. Both my daughter and I have done
it.

Joy


It seems to me that giving subcutaneous fluids (with a veterinarian's
prescription) would not be any different than giving pills or applying
topical medication with a veterinarian's prescription.

MaryL

wrote:
On Jun 26, 8:32 pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
wrote:
MaryL -out-the-litter wrote:
"Christina Websell" wrote in
message
We cannot adminster fluids ourselves here.

I responded to you in another post and gave you the http://www.felinecrf.org
site. If you click on the link, scroll down to the bottom and join the
list. From the contact page:
"if you want information about a UK vet who might be able to work with
you and allow you to give your cat sub-Qs if appropriate, please join
the Feline CRF Information List. There are a number of British
listmembers who may be able to give you a personal recommendation. In
your first post, please state where you are located (your nearest
large town or county) and that you are looking for a vet. I read all
the list posts, and if I know of a vet in your area, I will contact
you privately with details"

Hope this helps.

Heh - iven IF she were allowed to give KFC fluids, she would not be able
to. I believe that the cost that she references last time she attempted
to do so was for doctor bills for the damage to her own arm because KFC
is one feisty ol' gal!

--
^..^ This is Kitty. Copy and paste Kitty into your signature to help
her wipe out Bunny's world domination.
--
The ONE and ONLY
lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy
former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)©
email me at nalee1964 (at) comcast (dot) net
http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep

Christina Websell wrote:
There is not much improvement. She eats a tablespoon of roast
chicken per day, that is all, so gets frailer and frailer. She will
not entertain any other food.
I am not happy that the vet has not addressed her diarrhoea problems
since she was kidnapped, she had perfect poo until then, it's obvious
to me that if her bowels keep contracting she will not want to eat.
I have to clean up and scrub my carpets every day, I do not mind that
she is taken short before she can get to the litter box. I expect it.
She is bright, so bright and cheerful that I really do think I can
keep her going for a bit longer. I'd like her to have one more
summer, but the summer I wanted for her was outside, basking, and now
I am too afraid to let her out -(
I need to think.


{{{{{{{{{{{{{Christina}}}}}}}}}}}
Purrs for you and KFC

Jill

Christina Websell wrote:
There is not much improvement. She eats a tablespoon of roast
chicken per day, that is all, so gets frailer and frailer. She will
not entertain any other food.
I am not happy that the vet has not addressed her diarrhoea problems
since she was kidnapped, she had perfect poo until then, it's obvious
to me that if her bowels keep contracting she will not want to eat.
I have to clean up and scrub my carpets every day, I do not mind that
she is taken short before she can get to the litter box. I expect it.
She is bright, so bright and cheerful that I really do think I can
keep her going for a bit longer. I'd like her to have one more
summer, but the summer I wanted for her was outside, basking, and now
I am too afraid to let her out -(
I need to think.

Purrs for KFC to enjoy one last summer. When the time comes I know nothing
can ease the pain. :-( {{{{{{ Christina }}}}}}
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Bagheera & Shadow)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

MatSav wrote:
wrote in message
...

I think the vet said not to give fluids. For some reason, it's
not easily
available in the UK, for pet owners to bring home and
administer themselves.
I think I remember Adrian saying it was illegal. I don't
understand why.

Firstly, purrs, prayers, hugs and skritches for KFC and Tweed. I
really do hope it's not her time for the Bridge.

Secondly, I'll explain what I have heard as to why it's illegal
in the UK for anyone other that a vet to medicate an animal.

The reasoning is something like this. Your neighbour could remove
your appendix for you, even if they're not qualified or trained
to do so - provided that it had been fully explained to you, and
you agreed. That's called "informed consent". Now, whilst most of
us believe that our cats (or other animals) CAN talk to us, and
that they understand what we say, the law believes that they can
do neither. Therefore, they are unable to give "informed
consent". So, it has to be entrusted to someone who can make the
decision on their behalf - i.e. a veterinary surgeon - much the
same as a parent giving permission for a surgeon to carry out a
procedure on their child.

The stupid thing is, the surgeon could save a child's life but would be
breaking the law if he did the same for an animal.
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Bagheera & Shadow)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

wrote in message
...

On Jun 26, 6:05 pm, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
There is not much improvement. She eats a tablespoon of roast chicken
per
day, that is all, so gets frailer and frailer. She will not entertain
any
other food.

She is probably dehydrated and nauseous from the buildup of toxins in
her bloodstream as a result of her diarrhea and concurrent renal
issues. She really needs to get sub-q fluids to help her rehydrate her
and flush her system. I saw in another post that you state this is
illegal in England, but you are mistaken. While you may not be allowed
to administer *IV* fluids to KFC, you certainly can administer sub-q
fluids to her and the sooner you learn to do this the better. The
owner of the http://www.felinecrf.org website, Helen, developed her
website while living in England and has plenty of experience in this
area and a fantastic website. She may even be able to recommend a vet
that is close to you and get KFC better treatment than what your vet
is doing (or not doing) now. I suggest you check out her website and
email her ASAP and hopefully you'll get a response.


I am not happy that the vet has not addressed her diarrhoea problems
since
she was kidnapped, she had perfect poo until then, it's obvious to me
that
if her bowels keep contracting she will not want to eat.

You need to call the vet and /or bring in a stool sample and have it
analyzed. What is described is not normal and you need to find the
cause. Diarrhea causes dehydration and for a cat with renal issues
that is very bad and may be part of the reason why she is losing
weight along with what is at present untreated CRF. You are KFC's best
advocate and as such it is imperative you make a list of issues and
make sure the vet addresses each and every one off them. You are
writing his paycheck after all! You have every right to expect that he
gives you and KFC his all and offers the best options to make her feel
better. From what you have described so far it sounds kind of like he
is writing her off to old age, when in fact she has some treatable
issues.


This reminds me that, yes, the toxic buildup from CRF *can* produce symptoms
that mimic senility in cats that are really a long way from that. Even
Stinky was seeming a little dotty when he was feeling badly earlier this
spring, and that *was* easy for me to put down to his age-- until I saw the
difference that the fluids made. He is so much himself again. His *sharp*
self.

Christina, I know you must be overwhelmed, and the last thing you need is to
be confused by all this input-- but we know how you love KFC-- and we admire
her and you too! We'd like to see you have a bit more happy time together.
In any event, we are purring for you.

--
Theresa, Stinky and Dante
drtmuirATearthlink.net

Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:05:23 +0100, "Christina Websell"
wrote:

There is not much improvement. She eats a tablespoon of roast chicken per
day, that is all, so gets frailer and frailer. She will not entertain any
other food.
I am not happy that the vet has not addressed her diarrhoea problems since
she was kidnapped, she had perfect poo until then, it's obvious to me that
if her bowels keep contracting she will not want to eat.
I have to clean up and scrub my carpets every day, I do not mind that she is
taken short before she can get to the litter box. I expect it.
She is bright, so bright and cheerful that I really do think I can keep her
going for a bit longer. I'd like her to have one more summer, but the
summer I wanted for her was outside, basking, and now I am too afraid to let
her out -(
I need to think.


I'm still hoping that KFC can recover her appetite, and have this summer
with you. And I hope her diarrhea clears up, too. Diarrhea can cause a
serious electrolyte imbalance.

There are products that are made for human infants and young children
who have diarrhea, to replace lost electrolytes. I can't remember the
name, but you can ask about it at any pharmacy. It's not expensive,
IIRC.

It's worth a try, anyway. I have 'forced fluids' to cats by using a
blunt tipped plastic syringe, (just take the needle off) by slowly
squinting in the corner of their mouths. I would try to give 20cc (at
least) 4 times a day.

Purrs are on the way for KFC, and of course, for you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^..^
"Life without cats would be only marginally worth living."
-TC, and the unmercifully, relentlessly, sweet calico kitty, Kenzie.

Every day is a treasure with Kenzie; I try to treat them that way. There
will only be so many, and then there will never, ever, be any more.

How you behave towards cats here below determines your status in Heaven.
- Robert Heinlein

~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^..^
"Life without cats would be only marginally worth living."
-TC, and the unmercifully, relentlessly, sweet calico kitty, Kenzie.

Every day is a treasure with Kenzie; I try to treat them that way. There
will only be so many, and then there will never, ever, be any more.

How you behave towards cats here below determines your status in Heaven.
- Robert Heinlein