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"Tutorial" guidance required for reading cat food labels - please help, anyone



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 18th 03, 04:00 PM
Liz
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I´m not going to go over the whole thing again. The only thing I will
say is that if what you and Hill´s state were in fact substanciated,
cats in zoos would not be fed such a rich phosphorus diet and those
two cats fed eggs and bacon for breakfast (remember bacon has a lot of
sodium) would never have lived that long. I also suggest you read more
on metabolic acidosis and how it affects proteins, bones and kidneys.

In one of your posts you said your cats died at 19, 20 and 22. What
did they die of? What did you feed them? How often did you vaccinate
them? Did they have any health problems?
  #24  
Old October 19th 03, 12:51 PM
Liz
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Liz, this is so hypocritical of you!! LOL!! Why don't you provide ONE
reference for cats that have suffered deleterious effects from eating foods
preserved w/ ethoxyquin (in the levels used in cat food)?? which you have
failed to do (yet here you are using the same request for something entirely
different?) Of course you could probably kill yourself right now if you
ingested enough eq, but you are wanting a reference for the "amounts found in
cat foods"?? How about you follow your own advice for once? LOL!!!!


You´re absolutely right Gauby. I do sound hypocritical. The difference
is ethoxyquin is fat-soluble, that is, it may build up in the system
and in fact it does at the levels used by pet food manufacturers.
Calcium, phosphorus and sodium are hydrophilic (soluble in water), so
excess is easily eliminated by kidneys in a healthy individual with
proper consumption of water.

The fact that eq was not allowed in human foods in a concentration
above 0.5 ppm and that it was banned in many countries should should
be enough evidence for anyone in fact concerned with their pet. Also
remember that prolylene glycol was used extensively in pet foods
before it was banned.

"However, *recent reports* in the veterinary literature of
scientifically sound studies have shown that propylene glycol reduces
the red blood cell survival time, renders red blood cells more
susceptible to oxidative damage, and has other adverse effects in cats
consuming the substance at levels found in soft-moist food. In light
of this new data, CVM amended the regulations to expressly prohibit
the use of propylene glycol in cat foods."
David A. Dzanis, DVM, Ph.D., DACVN

Now, why would a smart person wait for eq to be banned? I´d rather not
feed it to my pets ever.
  #25  
Old October 19th 03, 12:51 PM
Liz
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Posts: n/a
Default

Liz, this is so hypocritical of you!! LOL!! Why don't you provide ONE
reference for cats that have suffered deleterious effects from eating foods
preserved w/ ethoxyquin (in the levels used in cat food)?? which you have
failed to do (yet here you are using the same request for something entirely
different?) Of course you could probably kill yourself right now if you
ingested enough eq, but you are wanting a reference for the "amounts found in
cat foods"?? How about you follow your own advice for once? LOL!!!!


You´re absolutely right Gauby. I do sound hypocritical. The difference
is ethoxyquin is fat-soluble, that is, it may build up in the system
and in fact it does at the levels used by pet food manufacturers.
Calcium, phosphorus and sodium are hydrophilic (soluble in water), so
excess is easily eliminated by kidneys in a healthy individual with
proper consumption of water.

The fact that eq was not allowed in human foods in a concentration
above 0.5 ppm and that it was banned in many countries should should
be enough evidence for anyone in fact concerned with their pet. Also
remember that prolylene glycol was used extensively in pet foods
before it was banned.

"However, *recent reports* in the veterinary literature of
scientifically sound studies have shown that propylene glycol reduces
the red blood cell survival time, renders red blood cells more
susceptible to oxidative damage, and has other adverse effects in cats
consuming the substance at levels found in soft-moist food. In light
of this new data, CVM amended the regulations to expressly prohibit
the use of propylene glycol in cat foods."
David A. Dzanis, DVM, Ph.D., DACVN

Now, why would a smart person wait for eq to be banned? I´d rather not
feed it to my pets ever.
  #26  
Old October 19th 03, 01:14 PM
Liz
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Phil, I don´t know if I shared this renal survey with the group
before. This survey was done with 19 veterinary
internists/urologists/nephrologists. Notice that many of them do not
feel phosphorus is detrimental enough to recommend a kidney diet as
soon as CRF is diagnozed, incliding Prof. Polzin, one of the gods
according to Steve. Also notice that *all* of them keep track of blood
pH/metabolic acidosis (question 3). Steve´s allegations are nothing
but marketing.

Let me also inform you that the pH of tap water varies from region to
region. It can be as low as 5.5 and as high as 10. Steve says Hill´s
diets are formulated to result in a urinary pH between ? and ? (don´t
care to remember those numbers). Now how can he state that if water in
different regions has different pH? They would need to do a specific
diet for every region they sell their product in. My tap water here
has a pH of 8, so acidified diets here do not result in a urinary pH
as low as it does to a cat who lives in a region where tap water is
more acidic.

I also found another interesting thing:

Regulatory aspects of diets, supplements, and nutraceuticals.
David A. Dzanis, DVM, Ph.D., DACVN
Dzanis Consulting & Collaborations, Santa Clarita, CA 91350-2713, USA.
The number of pet foods commercially available for veterinary use,
both complete diets and dietary supplements, has been rapidly
expanding in recent years. Veterinarians use and recommend nutritional
products in their daily practice, and this use should meet the ethical
constraints of veterinary medical practice and be based on
scientifically sound premises. However, it is also important to be
aware that nutritional products intended to treat or prevent disease
or to affect the structure or function of the body in a manner apart
from what is normally ascribed for food are considered "drugs" under
the law. Most of the "veterinary medical foods" and "nutraceuticals"
on the market bear claims on the labels or in promotional literature
that would establish intent as drugs, but under the current regulatory
conditions, THEY HAVE DONE SO WITHOUT MEETING THE CRITERIA NEEDED FOR
MOST DRUGS. Thus, the lack of government oversight of therapeutic
claims places the burden onto the veterinarian to carefully scrutinize
products for safety and efficacy.

Hill´s Science Diet is nothing but cheap claims, cheap food, and
veterinary bribing. They use the exact same marketing strategy as the
pharmaceutical industry: bribe and pressure the docs.
  #27  
Old October 19th 03, 01:14 PM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Phil, I don´t know if I shared this renal survey with the group
before. This survey was done with 19 veterinary
internists/urologists/nephrologists. Notice that many of them do not
feel phosphorus is detrimental enough to recommend a kidney diet as
soon as CRF is diagnozed, incliding Prof. Polzin, one of the gods
according to Steve. Also notice that *all* of them keep track of blood
pH/metabolic acidosis (question 3). Steve´s allegations are nothing
but marketing.

Let me also inform you that the pH of tap water varies from region to
region. It can be as low as 5.5 and as high as 10. Steve says Hill´s
diets are formulated to result in a urinary pH between ? and ? (don´t
care to remember those numbers). Now how can he state that if water in
different regions has different pH? They would need to do a specific
diet for every region they sell their product in. My tap water here
has a pH of 8, so acidified diets here do not result in a urinary pH
as low as it does to a cat who lives in a region where tap water is
more acidic.

I also found another interesting thing:

Regulatory aspects of diets, supplements, and nutraceuticals.
David A. Dzanis, DVM, Ph.D., DACVN
Dzanis Consulting & Collaborations, Santa Clarita, CA 91350-2713, USA.
The number of pet foods commercially available for veterinary use,
both complete diets and dietary supplements, has been rapidly
expanding in recent years. Veterinarians use and recommend nutritional
products in their daily practice, and this use should meet the ethical
constraints of veterinary medical practice and be based on
scientifically sound premises. However, it is also important to be
aware that nutritional products intended to treat or prevent disease
or to affect the structure or function of the body in a manner apart
from what is normally ascribed for food are considered "drugs" under
the law. Most of the "veterinary medical foods" and "nutraceuticals"
on the market bear claims on the labels or in promotional literature
that would establish intent as drugs, but under the current regulatory
conditions, THEY HAVE DONE SO WITHOUT MEETING THE CRITERIA NEEDED FOR
MOST DRUGS. Thus, the lack of government oversight of therapeutic
claims places the burden onto the veterinarian to carefully scrutinize
products for safety and efficacy.

Hill´s Science Diet is nothing but cheap claims, cheap food, and
veterinary bribing. They use the exact same marketing strategy as the
pharmaceutical industry: bribe and pressure the docs.
  #30  
Old October 19th 03, 04:40 PM
GAUBSTER2
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Hill´s Science Diet is nothing but cheap claims, cheap food, and
veterinary bribing. They use the exact same marketing strategy as the
pharmaceutical industry: bribe and pressure the docs.


You've already shown to be a kook. More delusional rantings from a madwoman!
You're spinning as hard as you can on this one! Care to explain why millions
of pets thrive on Science Diet and/or have had their lives SAVED on Hill's
theraputic diets?? No, you won't because 1) you have no idea what you're
talking about when it comes to anything on this ng......and 2) you have a
personal agenda that is NOT backed up by facts.

But thanks for playing....please drive thru!
 




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