fearful mother-to-be

On 28 Jul 2005 16:13:50 -0700, "Calvin Rice" ,
clicked their heels and said:


I don't understand why you say the kittens will be feral, since they
will
be born indoors if they are born, and will not go outdoors until after
the mother is taken away, after six weeks or so. I fully understand
that
the kittens would be feral if born in the wild.

Why are you planning on taking mom away at 6 weeks and allowing them
outside?


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

"Calvin Rice" wrote in message
ups.com...
Janet B wrote:

With millions of perfectly nice and non feral cats needing homes,
bringing more little lives into the world doesn't make
sense to ME. If it does to you, have at it. I wish you luck.

I'm not bringing more little lives into the world. I've had all of my
cats neuitered before they could reproduce. The mother and father
brought these little lives into the world. They're in the world now,
in their mother's womb.

If I hadn't been told about these little lives, I wouldn't have become
involved, but once I was told that their lives were about to be taken,
I had no choice but to try to rescue them.

-cr


Good for you. In my opinion, you are doing the responsible thing. The fact
is the cat is pregnant and it's not like you're going to leave them on the
side of the road when the kittens are born - you'll be able to find homes,
right? Besides, aborting the kittens now would like be aborting a baby in
the third trimester without the mother's consent and that is just wrong...
animal or human. I am sure when the birthing day comes, the cat will make
itself comfortable and do it's thing.

On Thu 28 Jul 2005 06:44:17p, Snittens wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
):


"Calvin Rice" wrote

I'm not aware of any vet recommendations in this case. But
thoughts about what life is worth saving are not limited to
medical minds.

-cr


I understand where you are coming from. When I first got
involved in rescue, I felt sick about having a pregnant cat
spayed and the kittens aborted. Then I started to see just how
many kittens are in need of homes. I always thought "oh kittens
are easy to adopt, there are enough homes to go around." No
there are NOT! And even though kittens can be easy enough to
place, it's all the work that is involved before they are old
enough for adoption (8 weeks by law, better at 12 weeks, IMO)
that is the real strain on shelters and rescues. Kittens get
euthanized. I bet most people don't realize that. They think
"I'll take these cute and fuzzy kittens to the shelter and they
will all get homes!" Well, if they are under 8 weeks and/or ill
in any way, they may very well get put down. Please rethink
this. If you really want to save some kittens, go to your local
rescue and foster a litter that have already been born.

-Kelly




I have to agree with this, too. Once you see kittens euthanized
just for being born, it's hard to see more that might end up
doomed. Though, I respect the wishes of Calvin and wish him and the
momcat and the babies-to-be well.

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

Calvin Rice wrote:

Kelly, if the mother has her kittens, I certainly will see them.
The cat is indoors, and will stay indoors, either in the bedroom
or in
the garage. Six weeks after the litter is born, the owner of the
mother will come get her and have her spayed.

My question is how to see to it that the mother-to-be starts to
eat, drink water, and use the litter box in the bedrrom where
she is confined. My worry is that the mother-to-be will waste
away, or miscarry, or something, I know not what, because of the
trauma of being suddenly confined in a stranger's house.

If the kittens are actually born normally, I don't see why they
will be different from any other kittens. If this was happening
outside, yes, the kittens would become feral. That already has
happened.
This will be the cat's second litter. But the first litter was
born in the wild, and remained half-wild. I say half-wild
because all of these cats have been underfoot around the
person's house,
but hard to trap for neutering, although all had been trapped and
neutered, except Blackie.

Yes, I'm inexperienced, though I have four cats. That's why I'm
asking for advice on how to help the mother and save the litter.

This is all so well-meant, but also so very unwise. Yes, the
mother's stress will almost certainly influence her own health and
that of the little ones. Even if they are born without damage due to
her fear, chances aren't high they'll become human-adjusted kittens
with her around... and she'll try and keep them from you, be sure of
that.

At this point, if that former neutering option is out of the
question now for some reason, I'd even put her back where she
resided. Anything but this.

Joske

Janet B wrote:
Why are you planning on taking mom away at 6 weeks and
allowing them outside?

Neither one of those things is necessary. The mother of the person
who delivered Blackie to me, hates to be parted from her. She
feeds her, though she can'r pet her. Blackie rubs around her legs
like any other cat about to be fed, but then wont allow more
contact. I'm sure the lady would accept a longer parting period
if that would be better..

I've acquired two six (or less) week old kittens in the past six
years. In both cases the kitten had already been separated from
the mother. Both kittens adapted well to my care immediately.
I'm aware of the big commitment required when adopting a
kitten, holding it most of the time while doing other things, being
especially careful and loving with it. Because of my experiences,
I assumed that six weeks was proper for separation from the
mother. But I'm open for better advice on this.

It's not necessary that six week old kittens go outside. My other cats
are indoor-outdoor, so i just assumed that these kittens would
become the same, until placement, but again I'm open to better
advice.

-cr

Joske wrote:
At this point, if that former neutering option is out of the
question now for some reason, I'd even put her back where she
resided. Anything but this.

No, the spay/abort option is still available. I can have the cat
taken away to the vet tomorrow, assuming we can get her back in
the cage. I can put on thick gardening gloves and a heavy shirt
and try to handle the cat, maybe getting a pillow case around her,
with help.

But I wonder why a cat, in the middle of her mothering instincts,
would not be horribly traumatized by suddenly becoming not pregnant.
Since stress for the mother seemed a sure thing, whether the
kittens were aborted or saved, I concentrated on trying to save
the kittens. I told the owners it was none of my business, but they
allowed me to make it my business.

-cr

On Thu 28 Jul 2005 07:31:50p, Calvin Rice wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
roups.com):

Janet B wrote:
Why are you planning on taking mom away at 6 weeks and
allowing them outside?

Neither one of those things is necessary. The mother of the
person who delivered Blackie to me, hates to be parted from her.
She feeds her, though she can'r pet her. Blackie rubs around
her legs like any other cat about to be fed, but then wont allow
more contact. I'm sure the lady would accept a longer parting
period if that would be better..


Hi Calvin. I totally understand where you're coming from here!
(with the expectant mom, the close arrival of lil wons!) It is
better for the kittens to be with mom until at least 12 weeks old.
Mom teaches them how "to be cats", how to litter train them, that
people are ok, how to eat solid food, etc. In this case, mom
doesn't know some of these things, from the sounds of it. If you
plan to let the mom give birth, which it sounds like what you plan
to do, I'm mixed on whether mom should influence the little ones
WRT human touch, litter box experience. Maybe in this case it would
be better to send her back. Do you have any other cats? Any that
might "adopt" the kittens and show them these things? It comes
better to them from another cat. Copy-cat and all that. My 2
year old male took my latest additions under his wing when they
were about 3 months old. I used to call him Mr. Mom.


It's not necessary that six week old kittens go outside. My
other cats are indoor-outdoor, so i just assumed that these
kittens would become the same, until placement, but again I'm
open to better advice.


I wouldn't let them be outside cats. At least not at 6 weeks old.
You will have to try to contain them if your cats are
indoor/outdoor. That little is way too young for them to be able
to stay out of trouble out there. Of course it depends on what
your neighborhood/city is like. Good luck with whatever you do.


--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

"Calvin Rice" wrote

I don't understand why you say the kittens will be feral, since they
will
be born indoors if they are born, and will not go outdoors until after
the mother is taken away, after six weeks or so. I fully understand
that
the kittens would be feral if born in the wild.

-cr

My mind isn't made up, but I'm melodramatic enough to recognize
that these tiny living things have no one but me to work on their
behalf, and see them chasing each other around, sleeping on
top of each other, and evolving into personality-rich beings like
the other cats I know. If I don't help them, they vanish in darkness,
almost getting help, but then losing it.


Because if the mother is feral, she may not let you near the kittens for at
least 4-5 weeks. By then, they will already be on the skittish side and
will need intense hands-on in order to become accustomed to people.
Please don't let them outside. You may never see them again. They need to
be in a small room and handled as much as possible.
I think you are romanticizing a bit here.

-Kelly

"Calvin Rice" wrote in message
ups.com...
Kelly, if the mother has her kittens, I certainly will see them. The
cat is indoors, and will stay indoors, either in the bedroom or in
the garage. Six weeks after the litter is born, the owner of the
mother will come get her and have her spayed.

My question is how to see to it that the mother-to-be starts to
eat, drink water, and use the litter box in the bedrrom where
she is confined. My worry is that the mother-to-be will waste
away, or miscarry, or something, I know not what, because of the
trauma of being suddenly confined in a stranger's house.

If the kittens are actually born normally, I don't see why they will
be different from any other kittens. If this was happening outside,
yes, the kittens would become feral. That already has happened.
This will be the cat's second litter. But the first litter was born in
the wild, and remained half-wild. I say half-wild because all of
these cats have been underfoot around the person's house,
but hard to trap for neutering, although all had been trapped and
neutered, except Blackie.

Yes, I'm inexperienced, though I have four cats. That's why I'm
asking for advice on how to help the mother and save the litter.

=cr


She could hide them somewhere and/or not let you anywhere near the kittens.
Believe me, I know this happens. Our shelter vet does spay pregnant
mothers, but not if they are close to delivery, so sometimes we are stuck
with feral moms with kittens. I haven't fostered a feral mom and kittens
personally, but many of my shelter friends have. The mother becomes
fiercely protective of the litter, and, I don't know if you've observed
this, she will practically sit on the kittens and not let you touch them. I
have fostered motherless semi-feral kittens that I got at five weeks, and
they took a lot of work. They will hiss, spit, and claw at you. Being born
indoors is not automatically going to make them sweet, friendly kittens.
Lastly, how many generations feral the kittens will be also has a factor in
how hard it will be to socialize them.

Do you have the mother cat in a cage right now? That would be the best
thing. She will be more comfortable in a small space. Put a little condo
or box in the cage for her to hide in.

-Kelly

"Calvin Rice" wrote

But I wonder why a cat, in the middle of her mothering instincts,
would not be horribly traumatized by suddenly becoming not pregnant.
Since stress for the mother seemed a sure thing, whether the
kittens were aborted or saved, I concentrated on trying to save
the kittens. I told the owners it was none of my business, but they
allowed me to make it my business.

-cr


Because the pregnancy hormones are what contributes to stressing her out.
Once those subside, she will go back to her normal self. Believe me, I have
experience in this area.

-Kelly