[OT] What do I say to this plumber? -- LONG

About two weeks ago we had a roto-rooter guy out as I've had to about once a
year to get rid of the tree roots that have grown into the drain under the
house + driveway. Three days later, the shower and toilet in the north
bathroom overflowed. I tried using a plunger on the commode and the sewage
backed up into the shower stall next to it.

Then we heard a funny sound from below....

In the crawl space, I noticed a leak coming from the drain line near where
it the shower connects to it. I crawled in there and found a broken joint at
the coupling plus a large crack in the line beyond the coupling. Due to the
broken joint, the drain line was also sagging down. I guessed this to be the
cause of the lack of drainage. The damage was probably caused by age, with
the help of the roto-rooter.

I called the plumber who replaced the water line last April. He wasn't in
but I left a detailed message. He didn't call back, so I left another
message two days later, then waited another 2-3 days and he still didn't
call back, so I decided to see if I could work on it myself since it's all
PVC and simple to fix.

This time noticed dripping from below the bathroom sink, and the pipe into
the shower drain had come unglued. And I wasn't sure how to deal with the
cracked drain line and coupling since a foot of the line had to be cut out
and ... well, if you know anything about drain lines you know the problem I
was grappling with. What a mess!

I needed parts and went to the building supplier and ended up deciding to
buy a new toilet (high time for one, too). Finally the plumber called and
said he'd been on vacation and was now available. I again explained exactly
what was wrong with the drain line and that I had started to work on it and
had found more problems and wanted to get a new commode, too, so, yes, I
would need his services.

He finally showed up today (45 minutes late, but at least he did get here)
and installed the commode and fixed the shower drain and the leak under the
sink, but we STILL can't send any water into the drain line because it still
leaks and is still blocked. Apparently roto-rooter guy didn't clear all the
roots (he'll be back in the morning to deal with that), and plumber was
inattentive.

When he first arrived today, I rook him downstairs and pointed out the
problems. This was the 4th time that I told him about the crack in the drain
line near where the coupling had come unglued. The first two times were in
phone messages, the 3rd was when he returned my call and made the
appointment to come by.

After installing the new commode he said he was done with all the repairs,
turned the water back on and went down to check for leaks. The drain line
was still leaking because he hadn't replaced the cracked part of the line
but had simply glued the coupling back together. Apparently my telling him
about the crack in the drain line had never registered in his mind, but I
didn't know this until he was getting ready to leave.

He was on his cell phone a lot of the time he was here and said he was in a
rush because five or six other customers had frozen pipes plus he was behind
from being on vacation. I don't think any of that's my fault, however, when
he was leaving, and telling me he'd be back in the morning to fix the
remaining leak, he looked at his watch and said "I've been here 2.5 hours so
far, tomorrow we'll just add to the total bill whatever extra time it takes
me to fix that leak".

So it appears that this plumber wants me to pay him for:
(a) reinstalling a cracked pipe - that I plainly told him, four times, was
cracked;
(b) the additional time he will spend correcting his mistake; and
(c) the additional parts that will have to be used due to his mistake.

Note that all the other stuff he did took about the same amount of time,
total, as fixing the drain line did. And he's not finished fixing the drain
line yet.

I did mention to him before he left that I had in fact told him several
times about the cracked drain line, but he acted like this doesn't matter.

Now, I may have posted in the past how difficult it is to get a plumber
around here. I had lotsa plumbing problems on the farm, which is why I
replaced all the copper pipes there with PVC. This plumber is usually good,
and he's amiable, and he shows up (eventually). So I sure don't want to ****
him off, yet I just as surely don't want to pay for extra time spent
needlessly due to his error.

I'd probably let it slide if I could afford to, but on my budget, no way. At
the same time, I simply do not know how to approach this in a way that won't
seem overly stingy nor put egg on his face.

What do I say to this plumber, to be diplomatic yet firm so as not to be
ripped off?

In article
1MWdncdgIIrCltnWnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@centur
ytel.net,
"Pat"
wrote:

What do I say to this plumber, to be diplomatic yet firm so as not to be
ripped off?

Explain to him that as much as you've
appreciated his services in the past
that his service this time was
unacceptable. Tell him that he seemed to
be distracted and maybe his vacation
wasn't long enough (not your problem).
See if he will make it right by you. If
not, suggest that you'll ask another
plumber to review his work (with him and
you both present) and that you'll abide
by his decision concerning "fault" if he
will.

Or call your local equivalent of the
Contractors Licensing Board and/or a
lawyer

On Jan 6, 12:37*am, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article
1MWdncdgIIrCltnWnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@centur
ytel.net,
*"Pat"

*wrote:
What do I say to this plumber, to be diplomatic yet firm so as not to be
ripped off?

Explain to him that as much as you've
appreciated his services in the past
that his service this time was
unacceptable. Tell him that he seemed to
be distracted and maybe his vacation
wasn't long enough (not your problem).
See if he will make it right by you. If
not, suggest that you'll ask another
plumber to review his work (with him and
you both present) and that you'll abide
by his decision concerning "fault" if he
will.

Or call your local equivalent of the
Contractors Licensing Board and/or a
lawyer




Hello,

You have to stand with them or they will "milk it" (as iswhat your
plumber is doing), and or steal. The last plumber (TNT Plumbing) i had
in my basement stole so many spare parts, the basement looked as if he
had cleaned it. They also lie and cheat like h!ll. In the end you have
to bargain with them about the amount they thought you owed them. With
hang-dog head they will accept what you give, and if they donot, just
tell them to sue for the rest . . . Also deduct his time spent on the
phone doing business, and if he doesnot like that, charge him rent for
the use of your property and time for conducting business. Cheap sob
should hire a secretary, instead of using you; your time and your
home.- did he also use your electricity and connection to charge his
cell phone? You can charge big bucks for that service, and if he
doesnot like it tell him youwill charge him with theft. Did he have a
permit to work on your plumbing? Did the City Inspector ok it yet? Is
his license up-to-snuff? Was he really on "vacation", or was he in
jail for blowing up someone's gas heater . . . and house . . . ????

Why do Co's. use slander (bill collectors) to collect a bill instead
of Due Process? If they had to stand with you before a judge, they
would land in jail for the story you had to tell about them as to why
you didnot pay the full or any of the bill - especially wackoquacko
doctors. OH, yeah, your plumber isnot deaf; your plumber is milking
you. Give us his name and telephone No. . . . Now-a-days you just
never can tell who is or who isnot on drugs/booze. These are hard
times, and itis going to get worse. When i was trying to figure out
what my kitties had i couldnot tell the difference between the
Whipworm, Plague or Anthrax. As youall know it was whipworm and
Anthrax. All the dead kitties were 3 months and/or under (whipworm
strikes at 3 months of age; Anthrax strikes when the ground is
extremely dry and dusty, so i had both conditions, and the sht hit the
fan - believe me itwas horrible).

Truly

Truth will set you free according to Jesus in John 8:32, so is He
saying weare in slavery? Yup.

"Pat" wrote in message
et...
About two weeks ago we had a roto-rooter guy out as I've had to
about once a
year to get rid of the tree roots that have grown into the drain
under the
house + driveway. Three days later, the shower and toilet in the
north
bathroom overflowed. I tried using a plunger on the commode and the
sewage
backed up into the shower stall next to it.

Then we heard a funny sound from below....

In the crawl space, I noticed a leak coming from the drain line
near where
it the shower connects to it. I crawled in there and found a broken
joint at
the coupling plus a large crack in the line beyond the coupling.
Due to the
broken joint, the drain line was also sagging down. I guessed this
to be the
cause of the lack of drainage. The damage was probably caused by
age, with
the help of the roto-rooter.

I called the plumber who replaced the water line last April. He
wasn't in
but I left a detailed message. He didn't call back, so I left
another
message two days later, then waited another 2-3 days and he still
didn't
call back, so I decided to see if I could work on it myself since
it's all
PVC and simple to fix.

This time noticed dripping from below the bathroom sink, and the
pipe into
the shower drain had come unglued. And I wasn't sure how to deal
with the
cracked drain line and coupling since a foot of the line had to be
cut out
and ... well, if you know anything about drain lines you know the
problem I
was grappling with. What a mess!

I needed parts and went to the building supplier and ended up
deciding to
buy a new toilet (high time for one, too). Finally the plumber
called and
said he'd been on vacation and was now available. I again explained
exactly
what was wrong with the drain line and that I had started to work
on it and
had found more problems and wanted to get a new commode, too, so,
yes, I
would need his services.

He finally showed up today (45 minutes late, but at least he did
get here)
and installed the commode and fixed the shower drain and the leak
under the
sink, but we STILL can't send any water into the drain line because
it still
leaks and is still blocked. Apparently roto-rooter guy didn't clear
all the
roots (he'll be back in the morning to deal with that), and plumber
was
inattentive.

When he first arrived today, I rook him downstairs and pointed out
the
problems. This was the 4th time that I told him about the crack in
the drain
line near where the coupling had come unglued. The first two times
were in
phone messages, the 3rd was when he returned my call and made the
appointment to come by.

After installing the new commode he said he was done with all the
repairs,
turned the water back on and went down to check for leaks. The
drain line
was still leaking because he hadn't replaced the cracked part of
the line
but had simply glued the coupling back together. Apparently my
telling him
about the crack in the drain line had never registered in his mind,
but I
didn't know this until he was getting ready to leave.

He was on his cell phone a lot of the time he was here and said he
was in a
rush because five or six other customers had frozen pipes plus he
was behind
from being on vacation. I don't think any of that's my fault,
however, when
he was leaving, and telling me he'd be back in the morning to fix
the
remaining leak, he looked at his watch and said "I've been here 2.5
hours so
far, tomorrow we'll just add to the total bill whatever extra time
it takes
me to fix that leak".

So it appears that this plumber wants me to pay him for:
(a) reinstalling a cracked pipe - that I plainly told him, four
times, was
cracked;
(b) the additional time he will spend correcting his mistake; and
(c) the additional parts that will have to be used due to his
mistake.

Note that all the other stuff he did took about the same amount of
time,
total, as fixing the drain line did. And he's not finished fixing
the drain
line yet.

I did mention to him before he left that I had in fact told him
several
times about the cracked drain line, but he acted like this doesn't
matter.

Now, I may have posted in the past how difficult it is to get a
plumber
around here. I had lotsa plumbing problems on the farm, which is
why I
replaced all the copper pipes there with PVC. This plumber is
usually good,
and he's amiable, and he shows up (eventually). So I sure don't
want to ****
him off, yet I just as surely don't want to pay for extra time
spent
needlessly due to his error.

I'd probably let it slide if I could afford to, but on my budget,
no way. At
the same time, I simply do not know how to approach this in a way
that won't
seem overly stingy nor put egg on his face.

What do I say to this plumber, to be diplomatic yet firm so as not
to be
ripped off?


Given the limitation of living in a small community, I think I'd
limit myself to saying to him when he comes back something like.
"You know I'm sorry you have had to make two trips to fix things, but
I did tell you several times before you started that pipe was
cracked."

And do your best to say it nicely but firmly. After all, you do
still need him to fix it. Should make him reconsider how much his
bill should be.

Remember, it would have taken him longer yesterday if he had fixed
that too. Which of course he should have.

Jo