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Other alternatives to Hills prescription s/d?



 
 
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  #81  
Old March 14th 05, 11:17 PM
Phil P.
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"Mary" wrote in message
news:1110732710.e8dfb19502921731260833f5e47eaf6d@t eranews...

"Phil P." wrote in message
ink.net...

"Mary" wrote in message
news:1110674548.50bc87a31f7cb9f0d57d3f6958d2a1c9@t eranews...

"Phil P." wrote in message
nk.net...

"Mary" wrote in message
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Phil mentioned several fruits and vegetables that are in Wellness

that
surprised me. I did not mean to say that a large percentage of
the product is made up of fruit and vegetables, only that there
are certainly several kinds in it.

10 of the first 15 ingredients are plant material. Sweet potatoes

are
listed 5th - after chicken broth which is 90% water and makes the

actual
chicken weight of the the broth effectively much, much less than

5th -
and
consequently moves all the subsequent plant products higher up on

the
ingredients list. The biological value of potatoes is even lower

than
corn.

Ingredients are listed predominately by weight. Thus although the

first
three ingredients are meat products, the *combined weight* of *all*

10
plant
products:

5. Sweet Potatoes
6. Carrots,
7. Vegetable Gums,
8. Flaxseed,
10. Alfalfa,
11. Cranberries,
12. Blueberries,
13. Yellow Squash,
14. Yellow Zucchini,
15. Garlic,

could easily exceed the weight of the third, or second, or even the

first
ingredient. Given the numerous plant products (10 of the first 15
ingredients) its very difficult - if not impossible - to know with
certainty
whether the diet actually contains more meat than plant material

without
seeing the actual formula - which no pet food company will make

public
.


If the fact that cats are obligate
carnivores

"Obligate carnivore" is often a misused term. "Obligate carnivore"

means
the cat must obtain certain nutrients from animal sources - not that

the
cat
must eat only meat.


means that "corn has a deleterious effect on cats,"
which is what buglady responded, then why are there ANY in
Wellness?

Because all those 'human grade' veggies look good on the label and

create
anthropomorphic appeal. For example, carrots and beta carotene;

cats
can't
convert beta carotene into vitamin A and must obtain preformed

vitamin
A.
But carrots and beta carotene sure look on the label and

advertising...
Further down the ingredient list, vitamin A is listed as a

supplement...
So, IMO, carrots are included for anthropomorphic appeal.

The biological value of potatoes is even lower than corn - but

'sweet
potatoes' sure look good on the label, too.

I feed my cats Wellness as part of their rotating diet because I

find
the
*nutrient levels* favorable - not because I fell for their 'human

grade
ingredients' or 'all natural' advertising gimmicks.

What do people think they're getting for 10 cents more a can - prime

rib?
LOL!


Thanks, Phil. I take it then that Wellness is no better than any other
cat food that lists "meat" and not "meat byproducts" as the first
ingredient, then? Is that your assessment?



Yes. However, meat by-products aren't necessarily a bad thing - meat
by-products generally contain more nutrients than skeletal meat. Cats

eat
animal by-products when they consume a mouse.



I have often wondered if the people who keep saying that
"meat" is better than "meat byproducts" are talking from
an anthropomorphic angle.




And if this is true, and
one's cat will not eat Hill's prescription s/d, then IF it were safe
one might use ANY such cat food that has meat as a first ingredient
and dose the cat with urine acidifier?



Basically, yes. But I would still avoid brands with high phosphorus

levels
and low protein to ash ratios.


Only I believe you wrote that
what Megan recommended is NOT safe. Correct?


As I said, adding an acidifier to an acidified diet is risky business -
*but* if the cat won't eat a prescription diet, you don't have much of a
choice. In such cases, the benefits outweigh the risks - since the
consequences of urethral obstruction are oliguric renal failure and

death
or
permanent damage to the urethra.

Phil



Thanks.

Okay, so summing up: Hill's Prescription s/d is the best thing for cats
that have had urinary tract problems, in particular blockages. If the
cat really will not eat this, then any cat food that has a low phosphorus
level and a low ash level (high protein low ash) can be used and
possibly supplemented with a urine acidifier such as Methioform--IF
the vet advises that this is okay.


A few pet food manufacturers make struvite diets so there's a good chance
the cat will accept at least one of them -- that's if the owner at least
offers them to the cat. Also, there are ways to enhance the flavor of
struvite diets without altering their effectiveness. Acidifiers should be
the last resort.

Phil



  #82  
Old March 14th 05, 11:24 PM
Phil P.
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"Mary" wrote in message
news:1110823064.5bd9677ee6c9d10c74d0f9f70b372c3a@t eranews...

"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:52:02 -0500, "Mary"
wrote:



I have often wondered if the people who keep saying that
"meat" is better than "meat byproducts" are talking from
an anthropomorphic angle.



Quite possible. My nephew's cat won't eat chicken or steak, but he
will eat a mouse. I guess those byproducts add more flavor.



Yep. And where does taurine come from, I wonder, that it
is not present in tuna? Does it come from hair and eyeballs
and bones and toenails and stuff?



You're partly right. Retinas contain high concentrations of free taurine.
Most other animal tissues, particularly muscle, heart (also a muscle),
viscera and brain - and shellfish, also contain high levels of taurine.
Plants don't contain any.

Most animals are able to synthesize enough taurine from methionine and
cysteine to meet their needs. However, cats have a limited capacity to
synthesize taurine and must receive it preformed - just like vitamin A (cats
can't convert beta carotene

Before 1986, many cats suffered from Feline Central Retinal Degeneration and
a form of dilated cardiomypoathy (taurine-deficient dilated
cardiomyopathy-TD-DCM) because the cat's taurine requirements were not known
and taurine was not supplemented in cat foods. After 1987, feline diets
were fortified with taurine and both diseases all but disappeared. Along
with insufficient protein, the lack of taurine is another reason why dog
food should not be fed to cats.

Phil.


  #83  
Old March 15th 05, 12:30 AM
Mary
external usenet poster
 
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"Steve G" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mary wrote:
(...)

Yep. And where does taurine come from, I wonder, that it
is not present in tuna? Does it come from hair and eyeballs
and bones and toenails and stuff?


Not hair, nor eyeballs, nor toenails.

IIRC it's most concentrated in the central nervous system, heart and
striate muscle.


Thanks Steve. I was just looking at a site about that. It comes
from animals, just not all animals.


  #84  
Old March 15th 05, 12:44 AM
Mary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Phil P." wrote in message
ink.net...

"Mary" wrote in message
news:1110823064.5bd9677ee6c9d10c74d0f9f70b372c3a@t eranews...

"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:52:02 -0500, "Mary"
wrote:



I have often wondered if the people who keep saying that
"meat" is better than "meat byproducts" are talking from
an anthropomorphic angle.



Quite possible. My nephew's cat won't eat chicken or steak, but he
will eat a mouse. I guess those byproducts add more flavor.



Yep. And where does taurine come from, I wonder, that it
is not present in tuna? Does it come from hair and eyeballs
and bones and toenails and stuff?



You're partly right. Retinas contain high concentrations of free taurine.
Most other animal tissues, particularly muscle, heart (also a muscle),
viscera and brain - and shellfish, also contain high levels of taurine.
Plants don't contain any.

Most animals are able to synthesize enough taurine from methionine and
cysteine to meet their needs. However, cats have a limited capacity to
synthesize taurine and must receive it preformed - just like vitamin A

(cats
can't convert beta carotene

Before 1986, many cats suffered from Feline Central Retinal Degeneration

and
a form of dilated cardiomypoathy (taurine-deficient dilated
cardiomyopathy-TD-DCM) because the cat's taurine requirements were not

known
and taurine was not supplemented in cat foods. After 1987, feline diets
were fortified with taurine and both diseases all but disappeared. Along
with insufficient protein, the lack of taurine is another reason why dog
food should not be fed to cats.


It's nice to know that good work in cat nutrition continues to be done.


 




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