I need your sagely advice and wisdom again, people. Declaw or not declaw, that is my question.

"Grace" wrote in message
ps.com...
Oh Cybercat, NO!!!! No declawing---just keeping them out of the
milking barn prior to and during milking. Declawing...NEVER! Sorry
for the misunderstanding.


So ... it is reasonable to imagine cats trying to get milk from dairy cows.
Hmm. Thanks, I had no idea.

Still, I cannot see farmers paying to declaw barn cats.

Me either--- farmers declawing barn cats. Whenever I was little,
our big barn boys were kept not only as pets, but because of their
wonderful mousing abilities. Though actually, our two housecat's---
both females, were much better hunters.

Grace

Response from "cybercat" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from (---MIKE---):

I am not in any way defending declawing but there is another
side to the results. I have some good friends who have two
declawed cats. I don't know whether they received the cats that
way or not (their daughter in law is a vet). The cats don't
appear to have any problems. They use their litter boxes, don't
bite and are friendly and sociable. They walk normally and one
of them likes to jump from high places. I don't discuss this
with my friends.

In addition to that, I have known some declawed kitties too and
there was never any problem with them as far as I know.

Those kitties were rambunctious and crazy as hell. I remember
them from when I was a kid. They used to terrorize the chickens.
They were mostly outside cats on a big farm in an area where it
was overrun by any cats except for those the farmer owned. They
were a fearsome bunch from what I remembered. And if I remember
correctly they were all declawed so they would not cut a cow's
udder when they decided to have a sip.

People. Anyone else's HORSE CRAP alarms going off??? No offense
meant, "Lost" but I cannot see a farmer doing this, and I just
cannot see a CAT trying to suckle a cow. There are far too many
barn cats worldwide for this to be a common occurance with cats
and dairy cows.

Well, as you have already heard from someone you trust that it is
indeed possible about them nosing about for a drink.

Thanks for the trust though. Nah, I am kidding. But seriously I am
almost positive that I was told or remember one of the farmer's kids
telling me that they had no claws. I assumed they were declawed.

Also you mentioned you cannot believe that a farmer would pay to get
them declawed. I have no clue if they would or not, but these were
pets. And every farmer or "out in the country" person I have ever
known have taken care of their own animals for the most part. That
is where I learned to give vaccinations, nurse calves, and how to get
bit by horses.

I could be wrong about the claws as it has been a LONG time, but
again, I am positive there was something about their claws and I can
only guess that they had to be declawed. I have even seen mittens or
socks put on cats so they did not scratch udders, but that was not it
either. So...

See ya'!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Response from "CatNipped" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from "CatNipped" :

That's the truth! I'd just clipped everybody's claws this
morning, then I let Archer out of the kennel so he could get
some exercise. I have to be careful because he runs around
pretty good even with the cast on his leg - faster than I can
catch him - and before I could get there, he was halfway up the
cat tree just by using his (clipped) front claws and pulling
himself up the sisal wrapped post!

CatNipped, If you do not mind me asking, how did Archer bust his
leg?

I have an attached garage and I put cat doors in the doors leading
into the house and my office (which is off the garage). The
litter boxes are in the garage. I didn't know Archer was using
the litter box when I walked into the garage and hit the button to
open the garage door. The noise it made frightened Archer so bad
he *TORE* out of the garage in a total panic. He hit his left
rear leg on the door frame, but was so panicked he continued
halfway up the stairs. He collapsed when he got to the landing.
It was almost time for my vet to close, but we got there before
they locked the door. However the vet was already in an emergency
surgery so they sent us to the ER vet. We spent most of the
evening (and $300) in the ER. They gave Archer a shot of
morphine, took some x-rays, put him in a cast, and sent him home
with pain pills and muscle relaxers. We spent another $100 on a
large dog kennel at PetsMart because the vet said he shouldn't
jump up and down from furniture or window sills but there isnt any
room in the how with nothing for him to jump on (even the
bathrooms). He's doing much better now, but is always crying to
be let out of the kennel. I let him out as much as possible, but
it has to be when I can spend 100% of my time just watching him
(kittens are *FAST*). He and his bro-fur can get in trouble at
the drop of a hat (5 month old kittens are like teen-agers but
with the minds of toddlers).

Awww, poor Archer! Glad he is doing OK.

And you know, I never thought to ask anyone about Gabby's age. Do
you have any idea how old this kitty might be?

Message-ID:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7...resizedzi7.jpg

Thanks, CatNipped. See ya'.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 03:22:19 -0500, "-Lost"
wrote:


Oh, and when you asked what would have happened had you not been
home? As soon as I read "stuck" I thought of a kitty pulling so
hard, partly because of freaking out, that his claw ripped from his
toe. I am definitely glad you did not have to encounter that, Lucky
too.


My nephew's cat actually ripped out 3 claws when my nephew tried to
force him to stay in his bedroom overnight. My nephew blocked the door
with crates and slept through the noise of his cat trying to pull the
door open. He awoke to find blood on the floor and 2 of the claws
complete, on the floor.

I got home from work that night and noticed Chase was refusing to
jump and looked uncomfortable. The vet checked to make sure they
weren't getting infected and told us they would grow back in, which
they did. It took 2-3 months. He was sore just walking around for teh
first month. Then, only sore when I messed with his feet. I wasn't
able to get a good look for myself for a good 2 months since I could
not press on his foot to get his claws to extend. It was obviously too
painful for him, so I just let the vet do it the once to check them.

-Lost wrote:
Well as promised I called today and talked to my friend. The doctor
does in fact recommend getting them declawed. Instead of piece it
together for you, I am going to clean up and copy and paste what I
was able to type out while we talked.

"Hey, Friend. How are you?"
Them: "Good -Lost, you?"

"Ah, so-so. I had a few more questions for you if you do not mind."
Them: "Shoot!"

"I was reading up on some different methods to stop kitty from
clawing everything in sight..."
Them: "Right, I remember..."

"Well, could you explain the entire declawing process and do you
recommend it or does the animal hospital recommend it?"
Them: "Well, first off... how old is kitty?"

"About 3 months give or take a month."
Them: "Well that is the best time to get kitty declawed. In fact, we
have a spay and front claw declawing program with a sterile scalpel
that runs $128. However, we HIGHLY recommend the laser which seals
nerve endings and cauterizes blood vessels. There is no bleeding, it
is less painful for kitty, they have a quicker recovery time and the
risk of infection is drastically reduced. That runs about $205, but
does not include pain management or vaccinations."

"Wow. So, do you recommend I do it? And what does the doctor feel
about it?"
Them: "Well, actually the administrator of both sites recommends it
as does the doctor. I recommend it too if kitty is being destructive
and you simply cannot break her from being destructive. Have you
tried shaking a piggy bank at her or squirting her with a spray
bottle full of water?"

"No. She is not destructive in my opinion."
Them: "Oh. Well, why do you want to get her declawed then?"

"I don't! I was asking if it was recommended."
Them: "Oh, well, yeah, we recommend it. Also, the sooner the better.
We have found that kitties respond much better when they have it done
early on rather than later in life."

"How so?"
Them: "How so what?"

"How do they become used to not having toes?"
Them: "No silly, it does not cut their toes off, only the tips of
them that contain the nail. A lot of people think it cruel in fact
to do it, but then you have some people who have nice things or
leather furniture and whatnot and they do not want their things
ruined. So, what were your other questions?"

"To be honest, I cannot remember what the others were."

At this point I just wanted to get off the phone.

Them: "Well if you are worried about kitty's health afterward we
provide lint-free, dust-free, shredded newspaper-like litter for you,
in fact we call it 'Yesterday's News', so she'll be covered there.
Do you want to set up an appointment?"

"I need to talk it over with my spouse first. I'll let you know."
Them: "OK, -Lost. If you have any other questions feel free and give
us a call."

"All right. Bu-bye."
Them: "Bye."

Also, when I first asked actually, they said "Well, we DO offer the
service." But it quickly went from me thinking, "Oh, maybe they do
not recommend it actually." to "They recommend the hell out of it."

They also mentioned that if she was to be an indoor kitty that I need
not worry about things like her being able to defend herself.

I am seriously disappointed in this animal hospital now.

Gack! That's disgusting! In addition to the fact that it is
an awful thing to do, and I don't think vets (who one would
think would want what's best for their patients) should be
offering this--or pushing it--the thing about kittens struck
me as odd. Kittens are, well, kittens. They may be...
playful. Certainly moreso than older cats. So they most
likely will grow out of any destructive behavior they might
engage in....

No time to say more, but I do have more thoughts on the
matter. Now I am thinking I'll ask MY vets again. The main
one did advocate declawing. I want to ask the new one. I
HOPE she is more enlightened!

--
Jean B.

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from "CatNipped" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from "CatNipped" :

That's the truth! I'd just clipped everybody's claws this
morning, then I let Archer out of the kennel so he could get
some exercise. I have to be careful because he runs around
pretty good even with the cast on his leg - faster than I can
catch him - and before I could get there, he was halfway up the
cat tree just by using his (clipped) front claws and pulling
himself up the sisal wrapped post!

CatNipped, If you do not mind me asking, how did Archer bust his
leg?

I have an attached garage and I put cat doors in the doors leading
into the house and my office (which is off the garage). The
litter boxes are in the garage. I didn't know Archer was using
the litter box when I walked into the garage and hit the button to
open the garage door. The noise it made frightened Archer so bad
he *TORE* out of the garage in a total panic. He hit his left
rear leg on the door frame, but was so panicked he continued
halfway up the stairs. He collapsed when he got to the landing.
It was almost time for my vet to close, but we got there before
they locked the door. However the vet was already in an emergency
surgery so they sent us to the ER vet. We spent most of the
evening (and $300) in the ER. They gave Archer a shot of
morphine, took some x-rays, put him in a cast, and sent him home
with pain pills and muscle relaxers. We spent another $100 on a
large dog kennel at PetsMart because the vet said he shouldn't
jump up and down from furniture or window sills but there isnt any
room in the how with nothing for him to jump on (even the
bathrooms). He's doing much better now, but is always crying to
be let out of the kennel. I let him out as much as possible, but
it has to be when I can spend 100% of my time just watching him
(kittens are *FAST*). He and his bro-fur can get in trouble at
the drop of a hat (5 month old kittens are like teen-agers but
with the minds of toddlers).

Awww, poor Archer! Glad he is doing OK.

And you know, I never thought to ask anyone about Gabby's age. Do
you have any idea how old this kitty might be?

Message-ID:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7...resizedzi7.jpg

Thanks, CatNipped. See ya'.

I have no idea - even vets can only estimate by the wear and tear on their
teeth (we once adopted a cat from a no-kill shelter whom they said was 3
years old, our vet said that, going by the teeth, he was at least 10 years
olf).

Hugs,

CatNipped


--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from "CatNipped" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from "CatNipped" :

That's the truth! I'd just clipped everybody's claws this
morning, then I let Archer out of the kennel so he could get
some exercise. I have to be careful because he runs around
pretty good even with the cast on his leg - faster than I can
catch him - and before I could get there, he was halfway up the
cat tree just by using his (clipped) front claws and pulling
himself up the sisal wrapped post!

CatNipped, If you do not mind me asking, how did Archer bust his
leg?

I have an attached garage and I put cat doors in the doors leading
into the house and my office (which is off the garage). The
litter boxes are in the garage. I didn't know Archer was using
the litter box when I walked into the garage and hit the button to
open the garage door. The noise it made frightened Archer so bad
he *TORE* out of the garage in a total panic. He hit his left
rear leg on the door frame, but was so panicked he continued
halfway up the stairs. He collapsed when he got to the landing.
It was almost time for my vet to close, but we got there before
they locked the door. However the vet was already in an emergency
surgery so they sent us to the ER vet. We spent most of the
evening (and $300) in the ER. They gave Archer a shot of
morphine, took some x-rays, put him in a cast, and sent him home
with pain pills and muscle relaxers. We spent another $100 on a
large dog kennel at PetsMart because the vet said he shouldn't
jump up and down from furniture or window sills but there isnt any
room in the how with nothing for him to jump on (even the
bathrooms). He's doing much better now, but is always crying to
be let out of the kennel. I let him out as much as possible, but
it has to be when I can spend 100% of my time just watching him
(kittens are *FAST*). He and his bro-fur can get in trouble at
the drop of a hat (5 month old kittens are like teen-agers but
with the minds of toddlers).

Awww, poor Archer! Glad he is doing OK.

And you know, I never thought to ask anyone about Gabby's age. Do
you have any idea how old this kitty might be?

Message-ID:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7...resizedzi7.jpg

Thanks, CatNipped. See ya'.

Sorry, forgot to add that just going by looks he appears to be about 4 or 5
months old.

Hugs,

CatNipped


--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

On Sep 28, 2:01 pm, "-Lost" wrote:
I am seriously disappointed in this animal hospital now.

As well you should be. I really hope you won't be taking your cat
there. I know I'm late to this thread, but I just have to say that
butchers like this should be banned from treating animals. There is a
website called the Declaw Hall of Shame. I would list this vet there.

CatNipped wrote:
Oh it's very beneficial - *FOR THE VET'S POCKETBOOK!!!* When I was looking
for a new vet, I would call and ask them if the did declawing. If they said
yes they got scratched off my list and I called the next one. Any vet who
can so seriously maim a healthy animal like this is, in my opinion,
seriously unethical.

Hugs,

CatNipped


How many did you go through before you hit one that didn't
offer it? Does anyone know (roughly) what the percentages
might be? Not only should they NOT offer this, they should
actively DISCOURAGE this!

--
Jean B.