FeLV testing & breeder responsibility

My husband and I recently acquired two purebred
3 month old kittens that turned out to be FeLV+
on ELISA, tested within 48 hours of bringing them
home, with the older kitten testing IFA+ a few
days after that. (I haven't had the younger kitten
IFA tested yet.) The breeder, who had given us
a written "health guarantee", has already admitted
the infection came from an adult male added to
her cattery a few months ago. To the best of my
knowledge, she never tested the kittens she sold us.

I have three adult cats that are FeLV-. The
kittens are under strict quarantine in the guest
bedroom, and my husband and I are in the
process of building separate quarters for them
on our patio. That was the best option we could
come up with rather than have them euthanized
or shift responsibility to someone else.

We will continue to test the kittens at three month
intervals, but I suspect we will never feel comfortable
integrating them into our household
due to the potential health risk to our adult cats.

Prior to this situation, all my cats lived to be
seniors (15+ to 18+ years of age) and died of
typical "old age" diseases - nothing infectious.
Nothing in nearly 40 years of owning cats has
prepared me for FeLV+ kittens. But I feel, and
my husband agrees, that we owe the kittens
whatever chance they have at life, as long as
their quality of life remains high.

I've spent hours searching for "industry standards"
with regard to breeder responsibilty to test for
infectious diseases before handing kittens over to
buyers, and so far haven't had much luck. If
someone could point me in the right direction,
assuming such standards or recommendations
exist, I would appreciate it.

I apologize for the long post. I thought it best
to give more rather than less information.

Gail

"Gail Futoran" wrote:

We will continue to test the kittens at three month
intervals, but I suspect we will never feel comfortable
integrating them into our household
due to the potential health risk to our adult cats.

Even if the kittens later test negative?

Prior to this situation, all my cats lived to be
seniors (15+ to 18+ years of age) and died of
typical "old age" diseases - nothing infectious.
Nothing in nearly 40 years of owning cats has
prepared me for FeLV+ kittens. But I feel, and
my husband agrees, that we owe the kittens
whatever chance they have at life, as long as
their quality of life remains high.

I've spent hours searching for "industry standards"
with regard to breeder responsibilty to test for
infectious diseases before handing kittens over to
buyers, and so far haven't had much luck. If
someone could point me in the right direction,
assuming such standards or recommendations
exist, I would appreciate it.

What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish here? If the breeder sold you
kittens knowing they had been exposed to FeLV, then she is not a responsible
breeder, but I'm not sure what you would be able to do about it.

As for testing the kittens, FeLV tests are generally not reliable in kittens
younger than 16 weeks so whether or not she tested, you may still have the same
result. If she gave you a health guarantee, normally this just means she will
replace the kittens, but it seems you have chosen to keep them. What is it you
want the breeder to do? Does she state in her guarantee or contract that her
cattery is certified FeLV negative?

"Gail Futoran" wrote:

We will continue to test the kittens at three month
intervals, but I suspect we will never feel comfortable
integrating them into our household
due to the potential health risk to our adult cats.

Even if the kittens later test negative?

Prior to this situation, all my cats lived to be
seniors (15+ to 18+ years of age) and died of
typical "old age" diseases - nothing infectious.
Nothing in nearly 40 years of owning cats has
prepared me for FeLV+ kittens. But I feel, and
my husband agrees, that we owe the kittens
whatever chance they have at life, as long as
their quality of life remains high.

I've spent hours searching for "industry standards"
with regard to breeder responsibilty to test for
infectious diseases before handing kittens over to
buyers, and so far haven't had much luck. If
someone could point me in the right direction,
assuming such standards or recommendations
exist, I would appreciate it.

What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish here? If the breeder sold you
kittens knowing they had been exposed to FeLV, then she is not a responsible
breeder, but I'm not sure what you would be able to do about it.

As for testing the kittens, FeLV tests are generally not reliable in kittens
younger than 16 weeks so whether or not she tested, you may still have the same
result. If she gave you a health guarantee, normally this just means she will
replace the kittens, but it seems you have chosen to keep them. What is it you
want the breeder to do? Does she state in her guarantee or contract that her
cattery is certified FeLV negative?

I think it's very nice and responsible that you are keeping the poor kittens.
I hope they wind up testing negative.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

I think it's very nice and responsible that you are keeping the poor kittens.
I hope they wind up testing negative.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human." (Loren Eisely)

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
My husband and I recently acquired two purebred
3 month old kittens that turned out to be FeLV+
on ELISA, tested within 48 hours of bringing them
home, with the older kitten testing IFA+ a few
days after that. (I haven't had the younger kitten
IFA tested yet.)

Keep the faith - IFAs also can detect transient viremia. So an IFA+ result
can
mean the kitten is either developing persistent marrow-origin viremia or is
in the process of rejecting transient marrow-origin viremia.


The breeder, who had given us
a written "health guarantee",

Does her "health guarantee" cover resident cats that could become infected
from the infected cats she sells?


has already admitted
the infection came from an adult male added to
her cattery a few months ago. To the best of my
knowledge, she never tested the kittens she sold us.

This is why breeders should be licensed - so the licenses can be revoked
for gross negligence. Under the present law any idiot or hustler can be a
breeder.

This breeder didn't simply make a mistake; she just didn't want to spring
for the
FeLV tests. Can't give her the benefit of the doubt because she did it at
least *three* times!
First time was when she introduced the FeLV+ male into her cat factory
without first testing him . All cats should be tested *before* being
introduced into a multiple-cat environment; and the second and third times
when
she failed to test each kitten prior to being sold. Who knows how many
infected cats she sold and how many
deaths she is and will be responsible for.



I have three adult cats that are FeLV-. The
kittens are under strict quarantine in the guest
bedroom, and my husband and I are in the
process of building separate quarters for them
on our patio. That was the best option we could
come up with rather than have them euthanized
or shift responsibility to someone else.

We will continue to test the kittens at three month
intervals, but I suspect we will never feel comfortable
integrating them into our household
due to the potential health risk to our adult cats.


Fortunately, most adult cats are relatively resistant to FeLV, otherwise,
FeLV would rapidly deplete the general feline population within a few years.
Actually, the overall infection rate in the general feline population is
decreasing.


Prior to this situation, all my cats lived to be
seniors (15+ to 18+ years of age) and died of
typical "old age" diseases - nothing infectious.
Nothing in nearly 40 years of owning cats has
prepared me for FeLV+ kittens. But I feel, and
my husband agrees, that we owe the kittens
whatever chance they have at life, as long as
their quality of life remains high.

The cats of this world desperately need more people like you.



I've spent hours searching for "industry standards"
with regard to breeder responsibilty to test for
infectious diseases before handing kittens over to
buyers, and so far haven't had much luck.

Breeders can do as they please. This is why licensing is desperately
needed.


If
someone could point me in the right direction,
assuming such standards or recommendations
exist, I would appreciate it.

I apologize for the long post. I thought it best
to give more rather than less information.

Keep the faith.

Phil



Gail

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
My husband and I recently acquired two purebred
3 month old kittens that turned out to be FeLV+
on ELISA, tested within 48 hours of bringing them
home, with the older kitten testing IFA+ a few
days after that. (I haven't had the younger kitten
IFA tested yet.)

Keep the faith - IFAs also can detect transient viremia. So an IFA+ result
can
mean the kitten is either developing persistent marrow-origin viremia or is
in the process of rejecting transient marrow-origin viremia.


The breeder, who had given us
a written "health guarantee",

Does her "health guarantee" cover resident cats that could become infected
from the infected cats she sells?


has already admitted
the infection came from an adult male added to
her cattery a few months ago. To the best of my
knowledge, she never tested the kittens she sold us.

This is why breeders should be licensed - so the licenses can be revoked
for gross negligence. Under the present law any idiot or hustler can be a
breeder.

This breeder didn't simply make a mistake; she just didn't want to spring
for the
FeLV tests. Can't give her the benefit of the doubt because she did it at
least *three* times!
First time was when she introduced the FeLV+ male into her cat factory
without first testing him . All cats should be tested *before* being
introduced into a multiple-cat environment; and the second and third times
when
she failed to test each kitten prior to being sold. Who knows how many
infected cats she sold and how many
deaths she is and will be responsible for.



I have three adult cats that are FeLV-. The
kittens are under strict quarantine in the guest
bedroom, and my husband and I are in the
process of building separate quarters for them
on our patio. That was the best option we could
come up with rather than have them euthanized
or shift responsibility to someone else.

We will continue to test the kittens at three month
intervals, but I suspect we will never feel comfortable
integrating them into our household
due to the potential health risk to our adult cats.


Fortunately, most adult cats are relatively resistant to FeLV, otherwise,
FeLV would rapidly deplete the general feline population within a few years.
Actually, the overall infection rate in the general feline population is
decreasing.


Prior to this situation, all my cats lived to be
seniors (15+ to 18+ years of age) and died of
typical "old age" diseases - nothing infectious.
Nothing in nearly 40 years of owning cats has
prepared me for FeLV+ kittens. But I feel, and
my husband agrees, that we owe the kittens
whatever chance they have at life, as long as
their quality of life remains high.

The cats of this world desperately need more people like you.



I've spent hours searching for "industry standards"
with regard to breeder responsibilty to test for
infectious diseases before handing kittens over to
buyers, and so far haven't had much luck.

Breeders can do as they please. This is why licensing is desperately
needed.


If
someone could point me in the right direction,
assuming such standards or recommendations
exist, I would appreciate it.

I apologize for the long post. I thought it best
to give more rather than less information.

Keep the faith.

Phil



Gail

"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"Gail Futoran" wrote in
message

...
My husband and I recently acquired two purebred
3 month old kittens that turned out to be FeLV+
on ELISA, tested within 48 hours of bringing them
home, with the older kitten testing IFA+ a few
days after that. (I haven't had the younger kitten
IFA tested yet.)

Keep the faith - IFAs also can detect transient viremia.
So an IFA+ result
can
mean the kitten is either developing persistent
marrow-origin viremia or is
in the process of rejecting transient marrow-origin
viremia.

I have read that (including some of your posts,
Phil g), but it seems less likely rather than
more in 3 month old kittens.

The breeder, who had given us
a written "health guarantee",

Does her "health guarantee" cover resident cats that could
become infected
from the infected cats she sells?

Nope.

has already admitted
the infection came from an adult male added to
her cattery a few months ago. To the best of my
knowledge, she never tested the kittens she sold us.

This is why breeders should be licensed - so the licenses
can be revoked
for gross negligence. Under the present law any idiot or
hustler can be a
breeder.

Yep.

This breeder didn't simply make a mistake; she just didn't
want to spring
for the
FeLV tests. Can't give her the benefit of the doubt
because she did it at
least *three* times!

Agreed. She trusted someone else to ensure
an adult male was FeLV-, and everything resulted
from that. She says the cattery is now FeLV
free but she only identified the problem (thanks
to email informing her about the tests) about two
weeks ago! While visiting before picking up our
kittens, I saw my two kittens interacting with a
number of other adults (mostly females), so there's
no way her cattery can be guaranteed FeLV- this
early. That's why I won't take replacement kittens
from her, even if I were willing to remove our
FeLV+ kittens from our household. Then there's
the issue of possible exposure of our adult cats,
and I believe that won't be resolved for at least
another 3 months.

First time was when she introduced the FeLV+ male into her
cat factory
without first testing him . All cats should be tested
*before* being
introduced into a multiple-cat environment; and the second
and third times
when
she failed to test each kitten prior to being sold. Who
knows how many
infected cats she sold and how many
deaths she is and will be responsible for.

Agreed, but she doesn't seem to understand
that. Scary. I've always had good luck with
breeders (my first purebred was acquired 1967)
so I was more trusting than I should have been.
I've learned my lesson.

[snip]

Fortunately, most adult cats are relatively resistant to
FeLV, otherwise,
FeLV would rapidly deplete the general feline population
within a few years.
Actually, the overall infection rate in the general feline
population is
decreasing.

That's good news.

The cats of this world desperately need more people like
you.

Thank you.

I've spent hours searching for "industry standards"
with regard to breeder responsibilty to test for
infectious diseases before handing kittens over to
buyers, and so far haven't had much luck.

Breeders can do as they please. This is why licensing is
desperately
needed.

Ok. That's what I thought. I had hoped to
quote some cat organization on recommended
testing and quarantine procedures to show
this breeder I wasn't making this up, but I
suppose I'll just have to accept I messed up.

Keep the faith.

I will - I'm not giving up on the kittens, even
if they remain FeLV+ and have to be confined
for the rest of their lives. They'll get the best
care I can manage.

Thanks all for the help,

Gail

"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"Gail Futoran" wrote in
message

...
My husband and I recently acquired two purebred
3 month old kittens that turned out to be FeLV+
on ELISA, tested within 48 hours of bringing them
home, with the older kitten testing IFA+ a few
days after that. (I haven't had the younger kitten
IFA tested yet.)

Keep the faith - IFAs also can detect transient viremia.
So an IFA+ result
can
mean the kitten is either developing persistent
marrow-origin viremia or is
in the process of rejecting transient marrow-origin
viremia.

I have read that (including some of your posts,
Phil g), but it seems less likely rather than
more in 3 month old kittens.

The breeder, who had given us
a written "health guarantee",

Does her "health guarantee" cover resident cats that could
become infected
from the infected cats she sells?

Nope.

has already admitted
the infection came from an adult male added to
her cattery a few months ago. To the best of my
knowledge, she never tested the kittens she sold us.

This is why breeders should be licensed - so the licenses
can be revoked
for gross negligence. Under the present law any idiot or
hustler can be a
breeder.

Yep.

This breeder didn't simply make a mistake; she just didn't
want to spring
for the
FeLV tests. Can't give her the benefit of the doubt
because she did it at
least *three* times!

Agreed. She trusted someone else to ensure
an adult male was FeLV-, and everything resulted
from that. She says the cattery is now FeLV
free but she only identified the problem (thanks
to email informing her about the tests) about two
weeks ago! While visiting before picking up our
kittens, I saw my two kittens interacting with a
number of other adults (mostly females), so there's
no way her cattery can be guaranteed FeLV- this
early. That's why I won't take replacement kittens
from her, even if I were willing to remove our
FeLV+ kittens from our household. Then there's
the issue of possible exposure of our adult cats,
and I believe that won't be resolved for at least
another 3 months.

First time was when she introduced the FeLV+ male into her
cat factory
without first testing him . All cats should be tested
*before* being
introduced into a multiple-cat environment; and the second
and third times
when
she failed to test each kitten prior to being sold. Who
knows how many
infected cats she sold and how many
deaths she is and will be responsible for.

Agreed, but she doesn't seem to understand
that. Scary. I've always had good luck with
breeders (my first purebred was acquired 1967)
so I was more trusting than I should have been.
I've learned my lesson.

[snip]

Fortunately, most adult cats are relatively resistant to
FeLV, otherwise,
FeLV would rapidly deplete the general feline population
within a few years.
Actually, the overall infection rate in the general feline
population is
decreasing.

That's good news.

The cats of this world desperately need more people like
you.

Thank you.

I've spent hours searching for "industry standards"
with regard to breeder responsibilty to test for
infectious diseases before handing kittens over to
buyers, and so far haven't had much luck.

Breeders can do as they please. This is why licensing is
desperately
needed.

Ok. That's what I thought. I had hoped to
quote some cat organization on recommended
testing and quarantine procedures to show
this breeder I wasn't making this up, but I
suppose I'll just have to accept I messed up.

Keep the faith.

I will - I'm not giving up on the kittens, even
if they remain FeLV+ and have to be confined
for the rest of their lives. They'll get the best
care I can manage.

Thanks all for the help,

Gail

"Yngver" wrote in message
...
"Gail Futoran" wrote:

We will continue to test the kittens at three month
intervals, but I suspect we will never feel comfortable
integrating them into our household
due to the potential health risk to our adult cats.

Even if the kittens later test negative?

From what I've read, FeLV can go latent then
reappear as much as three years later. That's
probably not likely, but I don't want to be facing
a potential outbreak 3 years from now - all
assuming the kittens turn negative, and I can't
assume that.

I've spent hours searching for "industry standards"
with regard to breeder responsibilty to test for
infectious diseases before handing kittens over to
buyers, and so far haven't had much luck. If
someone could point me in the right direction,
assuming such standards or recommendations
exist, I would appreciate it.

What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish here? If the
breeder sold you
kittens knowing they had been exposed to FeLV, then she is
not a responsible
breeder, but I'm not sure what you would be able to do
about it.

She wasn't aware that the kittens had been
exposed to FeLV. She was negligent in terms
of testing and quarantining (a new cat), but I
don't believe this was intentional. I would like
to inform her of any existing industry standards
or recommendations re testing and quarantine,
and perhaps save other buyers from the same
problem.

As for testing the kittens, FeLV tests are generally not
reliable in kittens
younger than 16 weeks so whether or not she tested, you
may still have the same
result.

True, but if she had tested the kittens before
giving them to me, they would have tested
positive. My vet did ELISA serum/blood on
both kittens, then after positive readings, took
another blood sample from both kittens and
sent it to a lab. Same result. The IFA test
done on the older kitten a few days later
was also positive. Based on what I've read
online & in books, at minimum those positive
tests means the kittens have been exposed.

If she gave you a health guarantee, normally this just means
she will
replace the kittens, but it seems you have chosen to keep
them.

Actually she told me she would give me
replacements no matter what I decided to
do with the kittens.

What is it you
want the breeder to do? Does she state in her guarantee or
contract that her
cattery is certified FeLV negative?

Not in those words. My vet read the contract
and felt the wording was ambiguous in that
regard.

Gail