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#101
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Brandy Alexandre wrote:
Relish wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: I have over and over. Simply the fact that you're irrational is why you don't remember and it has never sunk in. Cop out. Says you, but it's still the truth. Yup, "says me." Now go inside and have your milk and cookies. |
#102
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Brandy Alexandre wrote:
Relish wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: I have over and over. Simply the fact that you're irrational is why you don't remember and it has never sunk in. Cop out. Says you, but it's still the truth. Yup, "says me." Now go inside and have your milk and cookies. |
#103
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Actually, no. Sewing up a cat's anus would kill it. Declawing, if
done right, isn't fatal. True it would kill it, but this is not the point. Altering animals for conveniance isnt right. Mike |
#104
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Actually, no. Sewing up a cat's anus would kill it. Declawing, if
done right, isn't fatal. True it would kill it, but this is not the point. Altering animals for conveniance isnt right. Mike |
#105
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"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
... In , "bewtifulfreak" wrote: Just a note: fingernails and claws are *not* the same. Our nails are actually hardened (keratinized) skin, and do not grow out of a bone. Removing a fingernail does not require amputation of any bones. A claw is an integral part of the distal phalanx (the third, outermost bone of the finger), and grows directly out of it. Thank you for this detailed explaination. Thus, declawing requires amputation of the distal phalanx. The problem with partial amputation (yes, sawing through rather than disjointing) is that claw regrowth can happen - almost always in misshapen form. You mean with the laser declawing? This sounds at *least* as bad as having the toe taken completely off! Again, thank you for broadening my declawing knowledge. The more I hear, the more I know it's just something I could never consider. I still feel bad for declawing one of our kitties way back when before I realized the reality of the procedure, and we would never have considered it then, except that we were told we couldn't have her in the apartment we wanted to rent unless we did it. Knowing then what I know now, I would have given up the nice apartment and found another. Ann -- http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak |
#106
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"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
... In , "bewtifulfreak" wrote: Just a note: fingernails and claws are *not* the same. Our nails are actually hardened (keratinized) skin, and do not grow out of a bone. Removing a fingernail does not require amputation of any bones. A claw is an integral part of the distal phalanx (the third, outermost bone of the finger), and grows directly out of it. Thank you for this detailed explaination. Thus, declawing requires amputation of the distal phalanx. The problem with partial amputation (yes, sawing through rather than disjointing) is that claw regrowth can happen - almost always in misshapen form. You mean with the laser declawing? This sounds at *least* as bad as having the toe taken completely off! Again, thank you for broadening my declawing knowledge. The more I hear, the more I know it's just something I could never consider. I still feel bad for declawing one of our kitties way back when before I realized the reality of the procedure, and we would never have considered it then, except that we were told we couldn't have her in the apartment we wanted to rent unless we did it. Knowing then what I know now, I would have given up the nice apartment and found another. Ann -- http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak |
#108
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in article , Mike at
wrote on 8/11/03 6:03 AM: "PawsForThought" wrote in message ... From: (---MIKE---) Lauren, I am just a "collector"! I also keep any whiskers I find in a different jar. During the summer, I work at a water park. I go in early and collect the coins (and occasional bills) I find in the various pools. Looking for claws and whiskers keeps me in practice!. ROFL!! Nothing like practice makes perfect, eh Mike? I heard from somewhere that collecting whiskers brings good luck. Maybe I should start collecting them too I wonder if you added colored sand to the jar of claw pieces what it would look like. I bet it would look neat and a real work of art. This thread is getting so big I don't really know where to respond! I do try and see the argument from all sides before I make up my mind. I'm deeply against de-clawing cats, but if being declawed gives it a home and saves it from being put down from an over-crowded shelter, I guess its a necessary loss (even though it is only necessary through the ignorance of the new owner). One could then argue the cat is better off being dead, but I guess this is a personal preference that not everyone would agree on. I personally would rather live life without the tips of my fingers than have no life at all. Mike (Different Mike to the thread starter) The problem is that it does NOT save them from the shelter. Look at this study (which does show some dichotomy and admits it is difficult to factor, but you can also call up your local shelter and ask about declawed cats. They are usually available). Patronek et al., 1996 476 Behavior problems, risk of relinquishment Case-control study of owned and relinquished cats involving a random digit dial survey of cat owners. Prevalence of declawing was 45%(476/1056) in the owned cat population. In the univariate analysis, declawed cats were at decreased risk of relinquishment compared to non-declawed cats (OR=0.63; 95% CI 0.45-0.87). After adjustment in a multivariate model, declawed cats were at an increased risk of relinquishment (OR=1.89;1.00-3.58); this reversal made the effect of declawing difficult to interpret. Among 218 cats relinquished to a shelter, more (44/84; 52.4%) declawed cats than non-declawed cats (39/134; 29.1%) were reported by owners to have inappropriate elimination (p=0.022). |
#109
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In , "Mike"
wrote: | I'm asking if its more humane to kill a cat than to give it to owners | who would look after it but get it declawed first. There's no answer for this question because, as posed, it's actually not well formed. Specifically, why is death the alternative? If we explain that part by appealing to the overpopulation problem (i.e. general lack of enough homes), then we need to see these alternatives in proper context. We don't go around offing cats at random. The cats put to sleep are typically those *surrendered* to animal control facilities. Thus, the argument behind your question is that declawing vouchsafes a home for the cat. But this is very likely untrue. Declawed cats are a sizeable proportion of the intake at kill shelters. Call one up and, if they'll give you any numbers at all (many won't - simply because euthanizing healthy animals is very much on the embarrassing underbelly of public policy), it'll be like 10-20% or more. Then, look at all the vets falling over themsleves to deny that they declaw routinely, that it's a marginal or insignificant part of their practice, it's done only as a last resort, etc. etc. etc. etc. If they're right, then the proportion of declawed cats among all homed cats should be small - and at any rate substantially less than the proportions seen in kill shelters. The statistical conclusion is obvious. (Or, vets as a whole are lying.) |
#110
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In , "Mike"
wrote: | I'm asking if its more humane to kill a cat than to give it to owners | who would look after it but get it declawed first. There's no answer for this question because, as posed, it's actually not well formed. Specifically, why is death the alternative? If we explain that part by appealing to the overpopulation problem (i.e. general lack of enough homes), then we need to see these alternatives in proper context. We don't go around offing cats at random. The cats put to sleep are typically those *surrendered* to animal control facilities. Thus, the argument behind your question is that declawing vouchsafes a home for the cat. But this is very likely untrue. Declawed cats are a sizeable proportion of the intake at kill shelters. Call one up and, if they'll give you any numbers at all (many won't - simply because euthanizing healthy animals is very much on the embarrassing underbelly of public policy), it'll be like 10-20% or more. Then, look at all the vets falling over themsleves to deny that they declaw routinely, that it's a marginal or insignificant part of their practice, it's done only as a last resort, etc. etc. etc. etc. If they're right, then the proportion of declawed cats among all homed cats should be small - and at any rate substantially less than the proportions seen in kill shelters. The statistical conclusion is obvious. (Or, vets as a whole are lying.) |
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