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#21
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"Phil P." wrote in message ...
"PawsForThought" wrote in message Let's see if I can make this simpler. Martin claimed that there was *TOXIC* levels of pentobarb in foods - your web site proved that was NOT true. Nobody here has ever said there were never any traces found in cheap foods. But what is toxic exactly? An amount that makes a cat sick or causes disease.... Duh! And other then an eight week study that the FDA/CVM conducted on dogs no other studies have been undertaken as to the toxicity of this drug over a period of months or years. It's easy for people to say that pentobarbital is not toxic but if it had no effect on animals why then were these studies undertaken in the first place? If a person feeds a food with even trace amounts of pentobarb, ethoxyquin, BHT, BHA, etc., what is the effect over years of feeding? We do know that all the above do have an effect on humans and the FDA/CVM has lowered the amounts of ethoxyquin allowed in pet food because of illnesses in pets. In 1997 the FDA/CVM lowered the levels from l50 ppm to 75 ppm. You really are a scaremonger and have absolutely no clue about what you're talking about. You just ramble on with the same scare tactics over and over without ever providing a shred of evidence to support your bullsh!t. You, like a few others on this list, are the ones that are full of "bullsh!t." You all resort to derogatory remarks when backed into a corner. With people like you I'd tell Lauren, Megan, and a few others, don't waste your time replying to people like this as their prime goal is to put people down and avoid carrying on an intelligent discussion. I and others have asked you a thousand times to cite a *single* case of ethoxyquin, BHT, or BHA toxicity reported in a cat in the 20 years these antioxidants have been used in pet foods. You have *never* *once* produced a *single* credible reference. Not one. But you continue to use the same scare tactics and imply there's some danger when *none* have ever been documented in cats. Now I'll ask you to produce a *single* case of pentobarbital toxicity in a cat. I'm betting you'll come up empty just as you *always* do. That's why you have no credibility - other than with newbies who know absolutely nothing and believe anything. You belong in a gossip newsgroup, not a cat health group. Perhaps some cat owner's should question why the FDA/CVM has never tested cat foods for this drug. Could it be because they have spent so much time with their cover-up on the dog foods that they will not do any further studies? You can't base your argument on the benefits of feeding raw food because there are *none* so you denigrate commercial pet foods. You're like a high school kid who can't win a girl with his own qualities so he denigrates the other guy. I'm not in favor of feeding raw but given a choice between raw and commercial foods raw would be top on my list. Again you resort to childish remarks. Try something different for a change.... produce some proof to support your accusations and implications instead of starting and perpetuating rumors and scare tactics.... like you usually do.... Geez, another one that must work or the pet food industry or has some hidden agenda. . |
#22
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message om... "Phil P." wrote in message ... "PawsForThought" wrote in message Let's see if I can make this simpler. Martin claimed that there was *TOXIC* levels of pentobarb in foods - your web site proved that was NOT true. Nobody here has ever said there were never any traces found in cheap foods. But what is toxic exactly? An amount that makes a cat sick or causes disease.... Duh! And other then an eight week study that the FDA/CVM conducted on dogs no other studies have been undertaken as to the toxicity of this drug over a period of months or years. It's easy for people to say that pentobarbital is not toxic but if it had no effect on animals why then were these studies undertaken in the first place? Wow! You're even better at innuendo than Lauren! Did you ever think the study was a general analysis and not specifically for pentobarbital? If a person feeds a food with even trace amounts of pentobarb, ethoxyquin, BHT, BHA, etc., what is the effect over years of feeding? We do know that all the above do have an effect on humans and the FDA/CVM has lowered the amounts of ethoxyquin allowed in pet food because of illnesses in pets. In 1997 the FDA/CVM lowered the levels from l50 ppm to 75 ppm. Because scaremongers like you created a panic, that's why. There has *never* been a *single* case of adverse effects or toxcity in cats in more than 20 years the antioxidants have been used in pet foods. Now how could that be if the antioxidants were nearly as toxic as you're trying to imply they are, huh? You really are a scaremonger and have absolutely no clue about what you're talking about. You just ramble on with the same scare tactics over and over without ever providing a shred of evidence to support your bullsh!t. You, like a few others on this list, are the ones that are full of "bullsh!t." Naa, I think you have the bullsh!t department well covered.... and you're even making money at it to boot! You all resort to derogatory remarks when backed into a corner. Backed into a corner? Are you delusional as well as a bullsh!ter and scaremonger? With people like you I'd tell Lauren, Megan, and a few others, Na, I just have no patience or respect for scaremongers like you who spread a whole lot of innuendo, conjecture and scare tactic to further your agenda.... don't waste your time replying to people like this as their prime goal is to put people down and avoid carrying on an intelligent discussion. Nope... My prime goal is to try to make sure people aren't panicked by scaremongers like you with a whole lot of innuendo, rumors and scare tactics and your own agenda... which in your case is selling books. Follow your own advice, don't waste your time replying to me because your bullsh!t doesn't work on me... I've been around long enough to know to a bullsh!ter and scaremonger with a load of innuendo and speculation and an agenda when I see one.... and you're *IT*. I and others have asked you a thousand times to cite a *single* case of ethoxyquin, BHT, or BHA toxicity reported in a cat in the 20 years these antioxidants have been used in pet foods. You have *never* *once* produced a *single* credible reference. Not one. But you continue to use the same scare tactics and imply there's some danger when *none* have ever been documented in cats. Now I'll ask you to produce a *single* case of pentobarbital toxicity in a cat. I'm betting you'll come up empty just as you *always* do. That's why you have no credibility - other than with newbies who know absolutely nothing and believe anything. You belong in a gossip newsgroup, not a cat health group. Perhaps some cat owner's should question why the FDA/CVM has never tested cat foods for this drug. Could it be because they have spent so much time with their cover-up on the dog foods that they will not do any further studies? The master of innuendo strikes again! Got any facts to back up your innuendo? Obviously the FDA found no danger or reason for further testing.....Come to think of it, your innuendo is kinda weak... You can't base your argument on the benefits of feeding raw food because there are *none* so you denigrate commercial pet foods. You're like a high school kid who can't win a girl with his own qualities so he denigrates the other guy. I'm not in favor of feeding raw but given a choice between raw and commercial foods raw would be top on my list. Figures... LOL! Again you resort to childish remarks. Appropriate remarks for childish behavior.... Try something different for a change.... produce some proof to support your accusations and implications instead of starting and perpetuating rumors and scare tactics.... like you usually do.... Geez, another one that must work or the pet food industry or has some hidden agenda. Nope! Don't work for the petfood industry but I have been feeding lots of cats commercial cat foods for lots of years to know your claims are nothing more scare tactics to sell books... My agenda is far from hidden... its debunking scare tactics and innuendo from scarmongers like you who panic cat owners... |
#23
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message om... "Phil P." wrote in message ... "PawsForThought" wrote in message Let's see if I can make this simpler. Martin claimed that there was *TOXIC* levels of pentobarb in foods - your web site proved that was NOT true. Nobody here has ever said there were never any traces found in cheap foods. But what is toxic exactly? An amount that makes a cat sick or causes disease.... Duh! And other then an eight week study that the FDA/CVM conducted on dogs no other studies have been undertaken as to the toxicity of this drug over a period of months or years. It's easy for people to say that pentobarbital is not toxic but if it had no effect on animals why then were these studies undertaken in the first place? Wow! You're even better at innuendo than Lauren! Did you ever think the study was a general analysis and not specifically for pentobarbital? If a person feeds a food with even trace amounts of pentobarb, ethoxyquin, BHT, BHA, etc., what is the effect over years of feeding? We do know that all the above do have an effect on humans and the FDA/CVM has lowered the amounts of ethoxyquin allowed in pet food because of illnesses in pets. In 1997 the FDA/CVM lowered the levels from l50 ppm to 75 ppm. Because scaremongers like you created a panic, that's why. There has *never* been a *single* case of adverse effects or toxcity in cats in more than 20 years the antioxidants have been used in pet foods. Now how could that be if the antioxidants were nearly as toxic as you're trying to imply they are, huh? You really are a scaremonger and have absolutely no clue about what you're talking about. You just ramble on with the same scare tactics over and over without ever providing a shred of evidence to support your bullsh!t. You, like a few others on this list, are the ones that are full of "bullsh!t." Naa, I think you have the bullsh!t department well covered.... and you're even making money at it to boot! You all resort to derogatory remarks when backed into a corner. Backed into a corner? Are you delusional as well as a bullsh!ter and scaremonger? With people like you I'd tell Lauren, Megan, and a few others, Na, I just have no patience or respect for scaremongers like you who spread a whole lot of innuendo, conjecture and scare tactic to further your agenda.... don't waste your time replying to people like this as their prime goal is to put people down and avoid carrying on an intelligent discussion. Nope... My prime goal is to try to make sure people aren't panicked by scaremongers like you with a whole lot of innuendo, rumors and scare tactics and your own agenda... which in your case is selling books. Follow your own advice, don't waste your time replying to me because your bullsh!t doesn't work on me... I've been around long enough to know to a bullsh!ter and scaremonger with a load of innuendo and speculation and an agenda when I see one.... and you're *IT*. I and others have asked you a thousand times to cite a *single* case of ethoxyquin, BHT, or BHA toxicity reported in a cat in the 20 years these antioxidants have been used in pet foods. You have *never* *once* produced a *single* credible reference. Not one. But you continue to use the same scare tactics and imply there's some danger when *none* have ever been documented in cats. Now I'll ask you to produce a *single* case of pentobarbital toxicity in a cat. I'm betting you'll come up empty just as you *always* do. That's why you have no credibility - other than with newbies who know absolutely nothing and believe anything. You belong in a gossip newsgroup, not a cat health group. Perhaps some cat owner's should question why the FDA/CVM has never tested cat foods for this drug. Could it be because they have spent so much time with their cover-up on the dog foods that they will not do any further studies? The master of innuendo strikes again! Got any facts to back up your innuendo? Obviously the FDA found no danger or reason for further testing.....Come to think of it, your innuendo is kinda weak... You can't base your argument on the benefits of feeding raw food because there are *none* so you denigrate commercial pet foods. You're like a high school kid who can't win a girl with his own qualities so he denigrates the other guy. I'm not in favor of feeding raw but given a choice between raw and commercial foods raw would be top on my list. Figures... LOL! Again you resort to childish remarks. Appropriate remarks for childish behavior.... Try something different for a change.... produce some proof to support your accusations and implications instead of starting and perpetuating rumors and scare tactics.... like you usually do.... Geez, another one that must work or the pet food industry or has some hidden agenda. Nope! Don't work for the petfood industry but I have been feeding lots of cats commercial cat foods for lots of years to know your claims are nothing more scare tactics to sell books... My agenda is far from hidden... its debunking scare tactics and innuendo from scarmongers like you who panic cat owners... |
#24
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"~*SooZy*~" wrote:
My Father worked in a big well known bakery in the UK a few years back, once a week Waltham came to collect all the waste/out of date, cakes, bread etc to add to their feed, which was returned from the major super markets. Whiskers and Pedigree where made by Waltham, which is meant to be a good well know brand... terrible to then how many people are wasting their money on feeding their cats doughnuts! If it went into animal feed at all it probably went into large animal feed. Many donut chains have their leftovers going to pig farmers for instance. The local Tim Hortons had been doing that for years even though I can't say for sure they still are. Maybe it fattens them up quicker. -mhd |
#25
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"~*SooZy*~" wrote:
My Father worked in a big well known bakery in the UK a few years back, once a week Waltham came to collect all the waste/out of date, cakes, bread etc to add to their feed, which was returned from the major super markets. Whiskers and Pedigree where made by Waltham, which is meant to be a good well know brand... terrible to then how many people are wasting their money on feeding their cats doughnuts! If it went into animal feed at all it probably went into large animal feed. Many donut chains have their leftovers going to pig farmers for instance. The local Tim Hortons had been doing that for years even though I can't say for sure they still are. Maybe it fattens them up quicker. -mhd |
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#29
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From: (GAUBSTER2)
From: (Steve Crane) ONLY for the sake of argument, let's suppose Ann Martin is right and all pet food contains large amounts of rejected meat meals from human processing, and all the dead cows and pigs from the feed lots I don't believe Ms. Martin was saying ALL pet food contains this. However she is certainly insinuating that. I tried to pin her down exactly and she ducked and dodged masterfully and never did answer the questions put to her. Instead she spewed a bunch of insults and arrogance. Whatever. I read your posts in the thread, and you did not offer anything to back up your claims. You haven't even read Ms. Martin's book. I didn't see her insulting anyone. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#30
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wrote in message
... "~*SooZy*~" wrote: My Father worked in a big well known bakery in the UK a few years back, once a week Waltham came to collect all the waste/out of date, cakes, bread etc to add to their feed, which was returned from the major super markets. Whiskers and Pedigree where made by Waltham, which is meant to be a good well know brand... terrible to then how many people are wasting their money on feeding their cats doughnuts! If it went into animal feed at all it probably went into large animal feed. Many donut chains have their leftovers going to pig farmers for instance. The local Tim Hortons had been doing that for years even though I can't say for sure they still are. Maybe it fattens them up quicker. -mhd It went into Waltham's food e.g. pedigree chum and whiskers, my Father spoke to the drivers, I am going back a few years BTW but at that time it was when UK where all advertising top breeders use it! and people were paying loads for it too. I emailed them to ask if they still put it in and the email I got back didn't say yes or no! maybe I may ask again and post the answer in here, so someone who knows what they are talking about can read it...... because it didn't make any sense to me |
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