[OT] Just needed to vent

Don & Lisa wrote:

I agree with all the advise. Joel doesn't need to choose between his brother
and you two. He will be choosing to keep you safe, and if Daniel chooses to
leave for good, that is his choice, not Joel's.

Big head butts to you, Lisa.

"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Yowie,

We're purring up a storm for you. Is there a way for you guys (his
mother, Joel?) to commit him to a mental hospital? He obviously needs
help, and he needs it for longer than a few days.
I hope things turn out ok. However, if I may, I would advise to find a
way for him to get out of your house as soon as possible. He's not a
good person to have around, with you being pregnant and all.

*hugs*

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he


I am so sorry that this is happening again, Yowie. I agree that he
needs to be hospitalized. Sadly, no one wants to know about mental
illness. About the only thing you can do is to work hard on the
doctors. Shout, bully, insist, take him to the mental hospital and
insist they admit him. Say you are frightened for yourself and your
baby and that you are in danger. I have an example. When my older
sister was in a frightful state and a danger to herself and other people
my brother in law took her to the mental hospital and said he was going
to sleep in the foyer until they admitted her and if they didn't he was
going to the newspapers about the shocking state of the mental health
service. It worked. When they couldn't get rid of them they admitted
her. Talk back shows can help, politicians, it's amazing how a shared
problem can sometimes bring relief.

Love and Purrs,

Bev

God may have created man before woman but there is always a rough draft
before the masterpiece.

Yowie, we will purr and pray that things work out for the best. Hang in
there, and remember, sometimes tough love is the solution.
Lydia

--

Irulan
from the stars we came, to the stars we return
from now until the end of time


"Yowie" wrote in message
...
Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.

Don't know if you know the story of Daniel, Joel's younger brother. 3
years
ago, Daniel had his drink spiked and as a result went off his rocker right
around Christmas. He spent two weeks in the mental hospital with what
diagnosed at the time as "drug induced schizophrenia".

He reovered, and we figured that it was indeed due to the alteration of
his
brain chemistry due to the spiked drink. However, there was always a
possibility that the drug wasn't the *cause*, but the *trigger* and that
he
did indeed have schizophrenia proper.

Unfortunately, the weird and often violent behaviour returned about two
months ago, culminating in him assaulting his sister and completley
trashing
her house. He was taken to the mental hospital again, but the recovery
wasn't as quick this time, and apprantly its been complicated by his
co-dependency on other drugs so they still aren't sure whether its
schizophrenia proper or that he has been taken such a cocktail of
incompatable drugs that his brain chemistry just fell apart. This time, it
took him a very long time for him to even say out loud that he was in the
hospital because of his own behaviour and not because his sister was
"after
him". But when he was finally released, it seemed like he had come to
terms
withthe issue, realised that that drug cocktails were the reason he ended
up
inthe mental ward and had decided to go clean, and was looking forward to
resuming a normal life.

Only because he seemed so well recovered and that his sister,
understandably, could no longer bear the thought of him staying with her,
did we agree to tak him in temporarily. The idea was that since his job
pays
well, and he'd saved nearly $1000 while in hospital, he'd have enough
money
to find a small flat or good share accomodation within a week or two and
let
us have our nursery back. When he moved in, he happily agreed, indeed was
very enthusiastic, about the "house rules" and being a contributingmemeber
of the family again, He was happy to discuss what he needed to get done,
how
he was going to do it, and even his disgust and the various drugs and
their
dealers that got him into this situation in the first place. He even
entrusted Joel with $200 so that Joel could put it away for later.

But then he went out to see his mates the next day and hasn't been the
same.

One of the rules was that he couldn't drink or smoke pot or otherwise be
high when he was staying with us. Every timehe has come home after that,
he
has staggered around, his eyes been red, slitty and bloodshot, and he's
been
thoroughly uncomunicative. When he comes home. Some days he just doens't
come home. He hasn't helped at all around the house. He spent all his
svaings within 2 days (when he didn't come home) and even tookthe money
Joel
had been holding for him. He now expects us to pay for his cigarettes and
food. We can't talk to him about anything - his one word is "whatever".
He
insists he hasn't been smoking or drinking, but we can smell it on him,
and
keeps insisting nobody can tell him what to do , he can do anything he
wants. He hasn't done a damn thing around the house but expects his food
to
be cooked, his washing to be done, and to be cleaned up after. He didn't
even help clear out the nursery when he said he was going to help (so Joel
and I were left moving all thebaby stuff into the garage byourselves on
one
of the hottest days of the year - me with the pregnancy and Joel with his
dud knee) When he does come home, Joel and I huddle in Joel's bedroom
because we can't handle being around him, he mutters all the time and does
very strange, ritualistic things. He oozes resentment towards us, he's
back
to claiming his sister put him in hospital because *she's* the one with
mental problems. He's nearly 24. Also, and more concernign again is that
he
hasn't rung the mental health team like he's supposed to, or approached
his
own GP for a refill of his anti-psychotics (which he doesn't always take
anyway) and hasn't seen his psychiatrist anyway. He lies to the people who
come around and check up on him, lies to our faces, and lies to his
sister.
We've had enough and want him out.

The trouble is, we know damn well if we throw him out, he'll end up on the
streets, which won't help him at all. He'll either become one of those
weirdo homeless people who talks to ghosts in the street, a worse addict
and
criminal, commit suicide, or be murdered. Any way we look at it, throwing
him out is just going to make Daniel's problems a whole heap worse. And
yet,
we can't live our lives with him in the picture. He's not my relative so I
don't feel especially terrible, but Joel is effectively being forced to
make
a choice between his "old" family - ie his brother - and his "new" one, me
and our son, knowing full well that either way is going to have *bad*
consequences. There is no half way house we can put him in, we can't have
him committed involuntarily because technically he's currently not insane,
and we don't have the income to supply him with his own accomodation. We
are
stuck.

I know there is nothing you folks can do but purr for us. But I had to
vent.
The mental health system here is ridiculously underfunded and fully relies
on other people being willing to put up with this sh*t for the rest of
their
lives simply because they happen to share some DNA with the person in
question. There is no help, no respite, no system in place that gets us
out
of the bind. We either sacrifice our own lifestyles and live our lives as
dictated by Daniel's bizarre behaviour (and it wouldn't surprise me if he
starts stealing stuff from us soon), or we choose to sacrifice him
instead.
Even the local mental health team recognise its a ridiculous situation but
can't help on a practical level. And Joel has to decide between his
brother
and his wife & child. Utterly utterly mad.

Yowie

Yowie,

Your situation is similar to what a co-worker is going through right now.
You, Joel, Daniel and baby Yowie have all the good thoughts that my family
and our Basset Hound, Star, can send.

That being said, in the US if someone is refusing to take their medication,
it is possible to commit them to either the psychiatric wing of a hospital
or a mental hospital without their consent. Sometimes it takes a court
order to do so. Also, if you can get Daniel cleaned up enough, you might
want to have someone appointed his legal guardian. This would allow that
person to place him in an institution if he refuses to take his medication.

I know it is hard, and it is harder when you remember how Daniel used to be.
Unfortunately, that is not who Daniel is now. It might be wise for Joel to
talk to someone to help him deal with any guilt that he may feel from this
situation.

Please be careful. All our love and thoughts,

Diane

"Yowie" wrote in message ...
Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.


(big snip)

Well this whole situation sucks out loud, Yowie - we are sending our
best purrs your way. It truly bites that there's nothing the mental
health service can do - will they not do home visits to see how he's
acting? Is there no at-home follow-up after hospitalization? I
really hope you can find a solution that you all can live with, and
are sending special peace-of-mind purrs for Joel. What a bind to be
put into!

------
Krista

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
snipped
You're right about this being the place to vent. I'm so terribly sorry
about Daniel's behavior. My tuppence:

You and Joel united as a couple, which should overshadow other family bonds.
Moreover, you are carrying a child conceived in the love that you and Joel
share. Those things are your #1 focus right now. While Daniel might have
seemed to be receptive, even enthusiastic about "house rules", he has proved
to you that, even though you and Joel took him in during his hour of need,
he cares nothing about anyone but himself.

Given that he has shown behaviors that are a danger to himself and others
(his sister), I think you must get him out of your house immediately. It's
extremely hard to turn out one of your own (or Joel's), but you need a safe
environment for yourselves and your child. It won't be easy, but in my
opinion, must be done.

Hope this didn't come across as too judgemental, and purring and praying for
whatever you do.
Sam

"Yowie" wrote
Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.

snip vent

Of course this is the place to come when you have a problem. Thsi sounds
terrible, and you can't have a person like that around when you have a baby
in the house. Purrs that you find a solution soon!

--
Marina, Frank and Nikki
marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi

Yowie wrote:



The trouble is, we know damn well if we throw him out, he'll end up on the
streets, which won't help him at all.

Sounds like you guys need a little help from Al-Anon - the support group
for relatives of alcoholics (and drug abusers). So long as he thinks
you won't throw him out because he's "family", he'll continue to remain
an addict, and abuse your hospitality.

He'll either become one of those
weirdo homeless people who talks to ghosts in the street, a worse addict and
criminal, commit suicide, or be murdered. Any way we look at it, throwing
him out is just going to make Daniel's problems a whole heap worse.

That's possible. However, there's only so much you can do for someone
who doesn't WANT to be helped. Someone who refuses to take
responsibility for his own actions, or follow through with commitments
he made as a condition to living with you. As the folks at Al-Anon
would tell you, they're HIS problems, not yours - there's no point in
letting him destroy your lives, just because he seems determined to
destroy his own.

And yet,
we can't live our lives with him in the picture. He's not my relative so I
don't feel especially terrible, but Joel is effectively being forced to make
a choice between his "old" family - ie his brother - and his "new" one, me
and our son, knowing full well that either way is going to have *bad*
consequences. There is no half way house we can put him in, we can't have
him committed involuntarily because technically he's currently not insane,
and we don't have the income to supply him with his own accomodation. We are
stuck.

I think you should sit him down and discuss the situation with him
(hopefully when you can find him sober). He was supposed to be staying
with you for "a couple of weeks", not the rest of his life. He agreed
to do certain things when he moved in on you. He has totally failed to
deliver as promised, and you've had enough. Make it clear that you'll
be there for him if and when he decides to really get his act together,
but that until then, he's on his own. Right now he's behaving like a
small child, expecting you and Joel to see to all his needs - but he's a
grown man, NOT a small child, and you are not his parents. that may
sound harsh, but when people are determined to self-destruct, they'll do
so no matter what anyone else does, and they tend to take their loving,
caring friends and family down with them. (They use the kind of
emotional blackmail Daniel seems to be using on you, but you can't be
blackmailed if you refuse to let them do it.) It's not selfish to want
to preserve your normal life, so I think what I'm advocating is what's
called "tough love".

Yowie wrote:

Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.



Poor Vicky, Joel, Smoggleberry, and Carey. Lots of huggles, purrs,
headbutts, and good thoughts and wishes for you all. Please take care
of yourselves, first, and know that we're here for you. We love you
all.

Pam, Rob, and the NC nine

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:51:24 +1100, "Yowie"
wrote:

Purrs coming your way , as this sounds like a terrible dilemna for you
and Joel.
--
Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky

[remove Junk for email]
http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html

Yowie, my heart goes out to you both; what an awful situation! I will keep
you in our purrayers in hopes you can find a workable solution soon!
love and hugs,
Christine
"Yowie" wrote in message
...
Sorry to dump this on you guys, but I need to vent somewhere that is
understanding and sympathetic and nonjudgmental. And this is the place.

Don't know if you know the story of Daniel, Joel's younger brother. 3
years
ago, Daniel had his drink spiked and as a result went off his rocker right
around Christmas. He spent two weeks in the mental hospital with what
diagnosed at the time as "drug induced schizophrenia".

He reovered, and we figured that it was indeed due to the alteration of
his
brain chemistry due to the spiked drink. However, there was always a
possibility that the drug wasn't the *cause*, but the *trigger* and that
he
did indeed have schizophrenia proper.

Unfortunately, the weird and often violent behaviour returned about two
months ago, culminating in him assaulting his sister and completley
trashing
her house. He was taken to the mental hospital again, but the recovery
wasn't as quick this time, and apprantly its been complicated by his
co-dependency on other drugs so they still aren't sure whether its
schizophrenia proper or that he has been taken such a cocktail of
incompatable drugs that his brain chemistry just fell apart. This time, it
took him a very long time for him to even say out loud that he was in the
hospital because of his own behaviour and not because his sister was
"after
him". But when he was finally released, it seemed like he had come to
terms
withthe issue, realised that that drug cocktails were the reason he ended
up
inthe mental ward and had decided to go clean, and was looking forward to
resuming a normal life.

Only because he seemed so well recovered and that his sister,
understandably, could no longer bear the thought of him staying with her,
did we agree to tak him in temporarily. The idea was that since his job
pays
well, and he'd saved nearly $1000 while in hospital, he'd have enough
money
to find a small flat or good share accomodation within a week or two and
let
us have our nursery back. When he moved in, he happily agreed, indeed was
very enthusiastic, about the "house rules" and being a contributingmemeber
of the family again, He was happy to discuss what he needed to get done,
how
he was going to do it, and even his disgust and the various drugs and
their
dealers that got him into this situation in the first place. He even
entrusted Joel with $200 so that Joel could put it away for later.

But then he went out to see his mates the next day and hasn't been the
same.

One of the rules was that he couldn't drink or smoke pot or otherwise be
high when he was staying with us. Every timehe has come home after that,
he
has staggered around, his eyes been red, slitty and bloodshot, and he's
been
thoroughly uncomunicative. When he comes home. Some days he just doens't
come home. He hasn't helped at all around the house. He spent all his
svaings within 2 days (when he didn't come home) and even tookthe money
Joel
had been holding for him. He now expects us to pay for his cigarettes and
food. We can't talk to him about anything - his one word is "whatever".
He
insists he hasn't been smoking or drinking, but we can smell it on him,
and
keeps insisting nobody can tell him what to do , he can do anything he
wants. He hasn't done a damn thing around the house but expects his food
to
be cooked, his washing to be done, and to be cleaned up after. He didn't
even help clear out the nursery when he said he was going to help (so Joel
and I were left moving all thebaby stuff into the garage byourselves on
one
of the hottest days of the year - me with the pregnancy and Joel with his
dud knee) When he does come home, Joel and I huddle in Joel's bedroom
because we can't handle being around him, he mutters all the time and does
very strange, ritualistic things. He oozes resentment towards us, he's
back
to claiming his sister put him in hospital because *she's* the one with
mental problems. He's nearly 24. Also, and more concernign again is that
he
hasn't rung the mental health team like he's supposed to, or approached
his
own GP for a refill of his anti-psychotics (which he doesn't always take
anyway) and hasn't seen his psychiatrist anyway. He lies to the people who
come around and check up on him, lies to our faces, and lies to his
sister.
We've had enough and want him out.

The trouble is, we know damn well if we throw him out, he'll end up on the
streets, which won't help him at all. He'll either become one of those
weirdo homeless people who talks to ghosts in the street, a worse addict
and
criminal, commit suicide, or be murdered. Any way we look at it, throwing
him out is just going to make Daniel's problems a whole heap worse. And
yet,
we can't live our lives with him in the picture. He's not my relative so I
don't feel especially terrible, but Joel is effectively being forced to
make
a choice between his "old" family - ie his brother - and his "new" one, me
and our son, knowing full well that either way is going to have *bad*
consequences. There is no half way house we can put him in, we can't have
him committed involuntarily because technically he's currently not insane,
and we don't have the income to supply him with his own accomodation. We
are
stuck.

I know there is nothing you folks can do but purr for us. But I had to
vent.
The mental health system here is ridiculously underfunded and fully relies
on other people being willing to put up with this sh*t for the rest of
their
lives simply because they happen to share some DNA with the person in
question. There is no help, no respite, no system in place that gets us
out
of the bind. We either sacrifice our own lifestyles and live our lives as
dictated by Daniel's bizarre behaviour (and it wouldn't surprise me if he
starts stealing stuff from us soon), or we choose to sacrifice him
instead.
Even the local mental health team recognise its a ridiculous situation but
can't help on a practical level. And Joel has to decide between his
brother
and his wife & child. Utterly utterly mad.

Yowie