Need Opinions (Long)

#1 February 25th 05, 11:23 PM

#2 February 25th 05, 11:49 PM

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
My 14-year-old (will be 15 on April 8), Bandit, just went in for a dental
cleaning today. She had just had a geriatric exam on December 12 and her
creatinine and BUN have gone up since then (the vet said she is not
concentrating her urine as well as when she was younger). I'm worried
that
these is (to me) a big jump in creatinine and BUN and that it is too high,
but the vet said these figures are normal for her age (and none of my cats
have ever been ill - Bandit is the oldest, so I know *NOTHING* about these
things).

To give anyone who is informed enough information, I'll post all her lab
results in case there are other things that need to be factored in, then
ask
my question at the bottom of this post.

From December 12, 2004: (What | Bandit's Values | Normal Range)

AST (SGOT) | 27 | 10 - 100 IU/L
ALT (SGPT) | 57 | 10 - 100 IU/L
Total Bilirubin | 0.1 | 0.1 - 0.4 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase | 39 | 6 - 102 IU/L
GGT | 1 | 1 - 10 IU/L
Total Protein | 8.3 | 5.2 - 8.8 g/dL
Albumin | 3.7 | 2.5 - 3.9 g/dL
Globulin | 4.6 | 2.3 - 53 g/dL
A/G Ratio | 0.8 | 0.35 - 1.5
Cholesterol | 270 HIGH | 75 - 220 mg/dL
BUN | 36 | 14 - 36 mg/dL
Creatinine | 1.9 | 0.6 - 2.4 mg/dL

snipped for brevity

From today: (What | Bandit's Values | Normal Range)

ALKP | 45 | 14 - 111 U/L
ALT | 47 | 12 - 130 U/L
BUN | 36.9 HIGH | 16.0 - 36.0 mg/dL
Creatinine | 2.8 HIGH | 0.8 - 2.4 mg/dL

snipped

OK, I need this tranlated into vet lab results for dummies 101 (Phil,
Kristi??). Seriously, I don't know from Adam, but it seems like that is a
pretty big jump in creatinine and BUN values in just a little over 2
months.
Am I wrong to be worried?

Her BUN went up only .9, from 36 (*just* within normal) to 36.9; however,
her creatinine jumped a bit more than that, from within the normal range to
slightly above.

My own take: I would start to be concerned, since her BUN is slightly
elevated (36 being high end of normal), & creatinine also (2.4 being high
end of normal for this lab). By the time these values for blood work come
back high, something like 70 - 75% of renal function has been lost, but at
this point it's still enough for her to function okay.

However, you're going to want to bone up on CRF, & be pro-active in her
treatment in the future, to keep her as healthy as possible for as long as
possible.

Here's a very useful, clearly written renal failure site, that covers all
bases: http://www.felinecrf.org/ I used it a lot when my 2nd cat was in
CRF.

Cathy

When Bandit got her results in December the vet told me to start her on SD
canned (she's had SD dry all her life and no problems before this). At
the
same time I got a Drinkwell fountain for her to encourage her to drink.

Do you think she should be on a prescription diet?

BTW, her teeth and gums were fine, just needed a good cleaning since it's
been about 3 - 4 years since the last time she had it done.

Any advice or opinions are gratefully welcomed.

Hugs,

CatNipped

#3 February 25th 05, 11:55 PM

"Cathy Friedmann" wrote in message
...

Her BUN went up only .9, from 36 (*just* within normal) to 36.9; however,
her creatinine jumped a bit more than that, from within the normal range
to
slightly above.

My own take: I would start to be concerned, since her BUN is slightly
elevated (36 being high end of normal), & creatinine also (2.4 being high
end of normal for this lab). By the time these values for blood work come
back high, something like 70 - 75% of renal function has been lost, but at
this point it's still enough for her to function okay.

However, you're going to want to bone up on CRF, & be pro-active in her
treatment in the future, to keep her as healthy as possible for as long as
possible.

Here's a very useful, clearly written renal failure site, that covers all
bases: http://www.felinecrf.org/ I used it a lot when my 2nd cat was in
CRF.

Cathy

Thanks, I've just bookmarked it.

Hugs,

CatNipped

#4 February 26th 05, 12:26 AM

#5 February 26th 05, 12:38 AM

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...
Very quick top-posted reply because it's past my bedtime.
Nüle is a doctor with 6 years medical training who now chooses to practice
homeopathic medicine.
She is not a vet, but she knows how to interpret blood tests (she did one
of
mine once when I couldn't get a decent reply about what this and this and
this meant from my own doctor) so just in case cats levels are similar to
humans - or at least what's normal or not is completely clear from what
you
posted anyway, I have mailed Bandit's results to her to see if she thinks
there's anything to worry about.
If she doesn't feel competent enough to give an opinion, she will say so.
In that case you are no worse off, and if she does, you'll know one way or
the other.
Germany is an hour ahead of UK, so she will be fast asleep now. Which is
where I should be! She usually responds to medical questions reasonably
quickly, so I'll post as soon as she replies. Okay?

Tweed

Thanks!

Hugs,

CatNipped

#6 February 26th 05, 12:15 PM

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...
Very quick top-posted reply because it's past my bedtime.
Nüle is a doctor with 6 years medical training who now chooses to
practice
homeopathic medicine.
She is not a vet, but she knows how to interpret blood tests

{...}

She usually responds to medical questions reasonably
quickly, so I'll post as soon as she replies. Okay?

Tweed

Thanks!

Hugs,

CatNipped

Here is Nüle's reply:
....

I am indeed no vet and I don't even know what the
English abbreviation BUN stands for, but just the
fact that the cat was at the upper end of the
normal range with both values when the first test
was made, and is now slightly above what's
considered to be normal, would not let me panick
right now. There may just be differences on
different days. Creatinine is a fine indicator
for the kidney's work, and should be checked
again in a couple of month's time. If there are
any kidney problems, creatinine will rise long
before any symptoms appear. It is clear that in
old age the organs will not work as well as they
did when the person was young. The "normal" range
of blood values here is defined from blood
samples of soldiers - young men, aged 20, more or
less healthy...

I would trust the vet if he told me these are normal values for an elderly
cat.

Nüle

.....

Hope this helps.
Tweed

#7 February 26th 05, 01:49 PM

In article , "Christina Websell"
wrote:

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Christina Websell" wrote in
message
...
Very quick top-posted reply because it's past my bedtime.
Nüle is a doctor with 6 years medical training who now chooses to
practice
homeopathic medicine.
She is not a vet, but she knows how to interpret blood tests

{...}

She usually responds to medical questions reasonably
quickly, so I'll post as soon as she replies. Okay?

Tweed

Thanks!

Hugs,

CatNipped

Here is Nüle's reply:
...

I am indeed no vet and I don't even know what the
English abbreviation BUN stands for,

Blood urea nitrogen. It's more a "background" measurement, where
creatinine, and espeecially the calculated or invasively measured
creatinine clearance rate, gives a more current indication of actual
renal function.

?but just the
fact that the cat was at the upper end of the
normal range with both values when the first test
was made, and is now slightly above what's
considered to be normal, would not let me panick
right now. There may just be differences on
different days. Creatinine is a fine indicator
for the kidney's work, and should be checked
again in a couple of month's time. If there are
any kidney problems, creatinine will rise long
before any symptoms appear. It is clear that in
old age the organs will not work as well as they
did when the person was young. The "normal" range
of blood values here is defined from blood
samples of soldiers - young men, aged 20, more or
less healthy...

I would trust the vet if he told me these are normal values for an
elderly
cat.

Nüle

....

Hope this helps.
Tweed

#8 February 26th 05, 05:30 PM

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...
In article , "Christina Websell"
wrote:

big ole snippo

Here is Nüle's reply:
...

I am indeed no vet and I don't even know what the
English abbreviation BUN stands for,

Blood urea nitrogen. It's more a "background" measurement, where
creatinine, and espeecially the calculated or invasively measured
creatinine clearance rate, gives a more current indication of actual
renal function.

Thanks, Howard. I'll tell her, she'll like to know. Sometimes the language
difference can cause difficulties, especially with technical and specialist
terms.

Tweed

#9 February 26th 05, 12:26 AM

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
My 14-year-old (will be 15 on April 8), Bandit, just went in for a dental
cleaning today. She had just had a geriatric exam on December 12 and her
creatinine and BUN have gone up since then (the vet said she is not
concentrating her urine as well as when she was younger). I'm worried
that
these is (to me) a big jump in creatinine and BUN and that it is too high,
but the vet said these figures are normal for her age (and none of my cats
have ever been ill - Bandit is the oldest, so I know *NOTHING* about these
things).

snipped results
Do you think she should be on a prescription diet?

I would certainly read up on chronic renal failure, but do not become
panicked. My brothers cat was diagnosed with CRF a year ago when she was 14
and she is still going strong on a new diet (low protein kidney diet). Like
your kitty, she's 15 this year. Her urea was 11.2 (normal high is 10.7) and
her creatinine was 196 (high normal is 177). Your kitty, similar to my
brothers cat is only showing slightly elevated numbers. Do not become
stressed. CRF cats can live for years after diagnosis with proper
management. My brothers cat had her levels re-tested in December and
everything came back normal... so hopefully the diet is helping. I'm
surprised your vet didn't mention a diet change to a kidney diet. Although
it is true that kidney problems are common in older cats, this by no means
should be an indication that nothing should be done about it. Just my
opinion.

Kelly

#10 February 26th 05, 12:44 AM

"Kelly" wrote in message
.. .

I would certainly read up on chronic renal failure, but do not become
panicked. My brothers cat was diagnosed with CRF a year ago when she was
14
and she is still going strong on a new diet (low protein kidney diet).
Like
your kitty, she's 15 this year. Her urea was 11.2 (normal high is 10.7)
and
her creatinine was 196 (high normal is 177). Your kitty, similar to my
brothers cat is only showing slightly elevated numbers. Do not become
stressed. CRF cats can live for years after diagnosis with proper
management. My brothers cat had her levels re-tested in December and
everything came back normal... so hopefully the diet is helping. I'm
surprised your vet didn't mention a diet change to a kidney diet.
Although
it is true that kidney problems are common in older cats, this by no means
should be an indication that nothing should be done about it. Just my
opinion.

That's what I thought, but my vet said that most cats don't like the kidney
diet food and she would rather see a cat eat regular food than not eat
kidney diet food.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Kelly

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