Vomiting cat

I agree with you there. My cats really are picky about their food and all
three are special needs cats. Canned is not on their agenda. I give it as a
treat to help any hair balls through and to give them a little something
special. Most of the time they leave the canned to start drying out and I
have to throw it away.

Shadowen Walker
"Phil P." wrote in message
ink.net...

"CatNipped" wrote in message


I know some feel that only canned is good for them, and I'm sure they're
correct, but you have to balance that with the disadvantages of an
abrupt
change in diet and with whether or not your cat will eat it.

Absolutely. It doesn't matter how perfectly formulated a diet is if the
cat
won't eat it.

No diet should be changed abruptly - even from one brand to a different
brand of the same type of food.

Its often difficult to change textures because a cat's texture preference
is
very strongly influenced by the type of food that the cat was feed when
she
was a kitten. Unfortunately, most shelters don't have the funds or help
to
feed canned food so most cats develop a strong - and sometimes immovable
preference for dry food.

I also try to accustom all kittens and young cats to canned food because
it
makes switching the cat to a prescription diet easier if the need arises
later in life. The *worst* time to try to change textures or even brands
is
when a cat is sick -- and that's exactly when most people are forced to
change their cats' diets.

Phil

I won't waste my time commenting on all your other ignorant,
misinformed/uninformed and erroneous nonsense. I'll simply point out that
you, and apparently your vet, don't even understand the very *basics* of
feline nutrition - such as how to compare nutrient values between canned
and
dry food - which seriously discounts you and your vet's credibility.

What ever, my vet is not just one vet but three in a boulding called a vet
clinic. You know were they treat healthy and sick animals. Who have licenses
in animal health.

I have learned through
experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim. It's
got
less of everything and more fat.

Do you understand the concept of "dry matter basis"? I suggest you learn
so
you don't continue to make an utter fool of yourself. After you learn,
explain it to your vet! LOL!

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html
http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html
http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/canned_food.htm
http://www.felinecrf.org/dry_food.htm

Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with canned
cat food.

Feline nutrition 101: Canned food contains *more* protein and other
nutrients and usually *less* fat than equal quality dry food. Btw, cats
utilize fat *better* than carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in dry food
are
what makes cats fat - not the fat content of the food.

Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will have
runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat. I would rather feed
a raw diet than canned.
Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I stay
with a good dry.
For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and that is
my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens and
farrels.)
I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry food
is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their stomachs
and what they prefer.

That's enough for now, I don't think you could absorb much more than that
at
one time.

You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry food
and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food. All commercial cat food is
bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I also
have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
times. I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave the
rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
something they won't eat, and don't like.

Shadow Walker

Whatever Phil. I don't just sit around and depend on one source for
information.


"Phil P." wrote in message
nk.net...

"Shadow Walker" wrote in message
...

Well Phil perhaps its a mix of a few things.....one of them human
related I admit but I don't want to mess with the cans and smell and
mess of dealing with canned food.......


Actually, your cats' health should take precedence over your
convenience.

Mine does and I do not see my cats as being healthy when they cry in
pain
because the canned food is too wet. Thus causing diarrhea.
Which in turn is backed up by gas I can here them pass from across the
room.
You know that wet sound that we all make when our stomach lets us know
we
ate something we should not have.

Don't forget the buildup on there teeth. Canned cat food leaves residue,
yeah and some would and should advise what to do about that. Wingtips
and
other things. My cats won't touch raw meat. They like their dry and the
occasional canned.

but also I am convinced that the
dry food is best for them.


That's hardy the case. In fact, its the complete opposite. Here's why:




http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutritio...i ch_is_reall


Btw, take a look a your cats' teeth. Do you see any first premolars
or
lower first or second premolars or broad and fisured crowns for
grinding?
No, right? Their teeth are pointed - designed for tearing and
cutting -
not
mastication.


"Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
everywhere.


"Max's House is produced in the interest of improving the health of cats
everywhere.

Nuff said.


Sure was! You said enough to prove you're and utter idiot and don't know
*anything* about feline nutrition and to cast serious doubt that you're
capable of learning.

Btw, appropriate screen name "Shadow" - because you're certainly in the
dark
about feline nutrition! LOL!

"Shadow Walker" wrote in message
...

Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with canned
cat food.

snip

Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will have
runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat. I would rather
feed
a raw diet than canned.
Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I stay
with a good dry.
For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and that
is
my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens and
farrels.)
I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry
food
is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their stomachs
and what they prefer.

snip

You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry food
and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food. All commercial cat food
is
bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I
also
have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
times. I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave
the
rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
something they won't eat, and don't like.

Shadow Walker

I'm not trying to argue or change you mind, Shadow. As I wrote earlier, I
fed mine premium dry food all their lives and they did just fine on it and I
didn't change until *my* vet advised I feed my 15-year-old canned in order
to help lower her creatinine and BUN levels.

Like you I am leery about taking someone's word over my own vet's. Every
previous vet I've ever had and the rescue organizations I work with had
advised the same brand of dry, so I tended to believe them over anonymous
posters on usenet.

Like you, I think that all the links to pages I have been previously shown
regarding this issue were possibly put up by someone with their own agenda
to further (and being a web architect, I know how easy it is for just
*anybody* to put up a web page and try to sound as qualified as someone
who's gone through years of college to learn about what they're teaching).
Just because it's on a web page *sure* doesn't mean it's true.

Skepticism is essential these days, especially when we're talking about
something as precious as the health of our furry babies, as I'm sure
everyone here will agree.

Having said all that, I'd like to guide you to the Cornell University
College of Veterinary Medicine's page or feeding recommendations for cats.
I think you'll find it gives very balanced and good information.

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/resou.../feedcats.html

The author's credentials are on the bottom of the page. I hope that helps
you out.

Hugs,

CatNipped

This post was directed to Phil. I'm sorry if it posted to the wrong place.

Thank you for the link

Shadow Walker

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Shadow Walker" wrote in message
...

Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with
canned
cat food.

snip

Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will
have
runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat. I would rather
feed
a raw diet than canned.
Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I
stay
with a good dry.
For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and
that
is
my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens
and
farrels.)
I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry
food
is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their
stomachs
and what they prefer.

snip

You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry
food
and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food. All commercial cat food
is
bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I
also
have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
times. I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave
the
rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
something they won't eat, and don't like.

Shadow Walker

I'm not trying to argue or change you mind, Shadow. As I wrote earlier, I
fed mine premium dry food all their lives and they did just fine on it and
I
didn't change until *my* vet advised I feed my 15-year-old canned in order
to help lower her creatinine and BUN levels.

Like you I am leery about taking someone's word over my own vet's. Every
previous vet I've ever had and the rescue organizations I work with had
advised the same brand of dry, so I tended to believe them over anonymous
posters on usenet.

Like you, I think that all the links to pages I have been previously shown
regarding this issue were possibly put up by someone with their own agenda
to further (and being a web architect, I know how easy it is for just
*anybody* to put up a web page and try to sound as qualified as someone
who's gone through years of college to learn about what they're teaching).
Just because it's on a web page *sure* doesn't mean it's true.

Skepticism is essential these days, especially when we're talking about
something as precious as the health of our furry babies, as I'm sure
everyone here will agree.

Having said all that, I'd like to guide you to the Cornell University
College of Veterinary Medicine's page or feeding recommendations for cats.
I think you'll find it gives very balanced and good information.

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/resou.../feedcats.html

The author's credentials are on the bottom of the page. I hope that helps
you out.

Hugs,

CatNipped

I won't waste my time commenting on all your other ignorant,
misinformed/uninformed and erroneous nonsense. I'll simply point out that
you, and apparently your vet, don't even understand the very *basics* of
feline nutrition - such as how to compare nutrient values between canned
and
dry food - which seriously discounts you and your vet's credibility.

What ever, my vet is not just one vet but three in a boulding called a vet
clinic. You know were they treat healthy and sick animals. Who have licenses
in animal health.

I have learned through
experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim. It's
got
less of everything and more fat.

Do you understand the concept of "dry matter basis"? I suggest you learn
so
you don't continue to make an utter fool of yourself. After you learn,
explain it to your vet! LOL!

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html
http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html
http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/canned_food.htm
http://www.felinecrf.org/dry_food.htm

Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with canned
cat food.

Feline nutrition 101: Canned food contains *more* protein and other
nutrients and usually *less* fat than equal quality dry food. Btw, cats
utilize fat *better* than carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in dry food
are
what makes cats fat - not the fat content of the food.

Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will have
runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat. I would rather feed
a raw diet than canned.
Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I stay
with a good dry.
For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and that is
my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens and
farrels.)
I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry food
is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their stomachs
and what they prefer.

That's enough for now, I don't think you could absorb much more than that
at
one time.

You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry food
and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food. All commercial cat food is
bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I also
have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
times. I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave the
rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
something they won't eat, and don't like.

Shadow Walker












"Phil P." wrote in message
ink.net...

"Shadow Walker" wrote in message
...



ignorant babbling snipped

I won't waste my time commenting on all your other ignorant,
misinformed/uninformed and erroneous nonsense. I'll simply point out that
you, and apparently your vet, don't even understand the very *basics* of
feline nutrition - such as how to compare nutrient values between canned
and
dry food - which seriously discounts you and your vet's credibility.


I have learned through
experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim. It's
got
less of everything and more fat.

Do you understand the concept of "dry matter basis"? I suggest you learn
so
you don't continue to make an utter fool of yourself. After you learn,
explain it to your vet! LOL!

Feline nutrition 101: Canned food contains *more* protein and other
nutrients and usually *less* fat than equal quality dry food. Btw, cats
utilize fat *better* than carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in dry food
are
what makes cats fat - not the fat content of the food.

That's enough for now, I don't think you could absorb much more than that
at
one time.

"Shadow Walker" wrote in message
...
This post was directed to Phil. I'm sorry if it posted to the wrong place.

Thank you for the link

Shadow Walker

Sorry I didn't mean to confuse. I know it was directed at Phil, I was just
responding to the skepticism you were posting because I've felt the same way
and would have appreciated a credible link to information back then.

Hugs,

CatNipped

"Shadow Walker" wrote in message
...


What ever, my vet is not just one vet but three in a boulding called a vet
clinic. You know were they treat healthy and sick animals. Who have
licenses
in animal health.

What a coincidence! In my shelter rescue and feral work, I work with
several vets who have the same type of set up as yours and my personal vet
is a double-boarded retired vet professor who taught vets for over 30 years.



I have learned through
experience with the *vet* that canned is not as good as you claim.
It's
got
less of everything and more fat.

Do you understand the concept of "dry matter basis"? I suggest you
learn
so
you don't continue to make an utter fool of yourself. After you learn,
explain it to your vet! LOL!

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html
http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html
http://cats.about.com/cs/catfood/a/canned_food.htm
http://www.felinecrf.org/dry_food.htm

Yes I checked it out. Still not going to change my experiences with canned
cat food.


I can't and wasn't trying to change your experiences -I'm just trying to
enlighten you about the superiority of canned food for your cats' sake.




Feline nutrition 101: Canned food contains *more* protein and other
nutrients and usually *less* fat than equal quality dry food. Btw, cats
utilize fat *better* than carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in dry food
are
what makes cats fat - not the fat content of the food.

Yes I know cats utilize fat better then carbohydrates. It still doesn't
change the fact that cats who do not due well on canned cat food will have
runny, loose and mucus in their stool from too much fat.


Many canned foods contain *less* fat than dry foods and use a higher quality
fat - the fat in dry food must be in powered form whereas fresh fat is used
in canned food.

How did you attempt to transistion your cats over canned food, abruptly or
slowly? Abrupt dietary changes can give any cat diarrhea or loose stools.
Also, did you try several different brands? Some brands contain ingredients
that don't agree with some cats. Your cat may have had a nutrient-induced
aversion rather than a diet-induced problem.



I would rather feed
a raw diet than canned.
Since my cats would rather starve then eat raw, canned or anything, I stay
with a good dry.
For my cats and I state my cats, dry food is what they thrive on and that
is
my experience with cats.(That's only ten years of having cats, kittens and
farrels.)
I also state that with the things I have experienced with my cats, dry
food
is healthier for their teeth than canned, more agreeable to their stomachs
and what they prefer.

They prefer dry food because they were accustomed to dry food at a young age
and for no other reason. Nothing about a cat - from her teeth to her anus -
was designed for the comsumption and digestion of dry food.




That's enough for now, I don't think you could absorb much more than
that
at
one time.

You don't want to absorb the fact that some cats do just fine on dry food
and are healthy, happy and thriving on dry food.


I know and have known *many* cats that do well on dry food. However. in the
long run, cats will do much better on canned than dry - canned is more
nutritious and digestible than equal quality dry and easier on the digestive
and urinary systems.


All commercial cat food is
bad. It all lacks in something. I try to help mine by providing extra
vitamins and minerals just incase they miss something in their food. I
also
have plenty of water containers and bowls for them to have water at all
times.

I doesn't matter how many water bowls they have, cats can't make rapid and
precise changes in voluntary water intake in response to their state of
hydration. Even though cats fed dry food drink about 6x more water than
cats fed canned food - their total water intake and water turnover is much
less. There're actually studies that have proven that


I give canned as a treat and they pick out parts of it and leave the
rest to dry out. So it's thrown away. I don't see the use in giving
something they won't eat, and don't like.

The first requirement in any endeavor is desire and the second is belief.
Since you have neither concerning feeding canned food all I can do is wish
you the best of luck.

Btw, I also noticed that this thread has been crossed-posted from another
group and that you're not a regular of rec.pets.cats.health+behav - which
probably accounts for your outdated and misguided information.

Good luck.

Phil

"Shadow Walker" wrote in message
...
Whatever Phil. I don't just sit around and depend on one source for
information.


Neither do I. I've spent a few years researching feline nutrition and
relied on only credible sources - such as veterinary and medical texts and
peer-reviewed veterinary and medical journals and veterinary nutritionists -
and not personal websites or personal opinions.

For a partial list of the sources of my information, check the references at
the bottom of my Feline Nutrition page
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

you'll see what I mean.

Phil

Thanks for trying to save me from the bigger ass thing I don't care how
nice of a guy he is or his credentials he doesn't know how to treat
people.....I don't let anyone take free shots at me ........I never
said a word to him until he had to try cut me down as he was making his
points........go ahead and kiss his ass .......its not my style.....as
I said many times why can't he just make his posting without telling
other people they are wrong........

Brad

LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL-PRESERVED
BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT, SHOUTING... "
HOLY @#$%... WHAT A RIDE!"