cat is a bully

"bigbadbarry" wrote in message
oups.com...


or he could just bust that cats ass and be done with it. I've never
heard of such rubbish. Me thinks your head is a little clogged with cat
poo.


Regardless of how I feel about your advice, it's just not going to work in
the OP's situation. Getting aggressive with the dominant cat is only going
to inflame the situation, not diffuse it.

-Kelly

KellyH wrote:

Getting aggressive with the dominant cat is only going
to inflame the situation, not diffuse it.

One cannot be aggressive with ones self. I am the dominant cat.

Im in charge. I call the shots.

"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"RobR" wrote in message
news:Jm2qe.3843$qE2.1144@trndny09...
We have four amazing indoor only cats, but over the past couple of years,
one of them has really become a bully to one of our other cats. Here's
our cat family:

Brak - Male 18lb - 5y old (the bully)
Warren (Braks brother) - Male 13lb - 5y old
Kaya - Female - 7lb - 10mo
Zena - Female - 10lb - 13y

Brak is probably the best lap cat/people bather (except he can't sit
still
in
your lap for more than 30 seconds at a time before he has to readjust),
but he will NOT leave Zena alone. He traps her into corners and
behind the big TV and bites at and wrestles her. She screams and
yowls, she won't fight, she rolls over on her back which makes it even
easier for Brak to assault her.

Actually, this is a cat's strongest defensive position! If she spins on
her
back she can position Brak so his back feet land on the ground and not on
her stomach and his head and shoulders will also hit the ground. He'll
have to get up to re-attack. Then all she has to do is spin on her back
again so her head is nearest to Brak with her rear paws ready to kick him
off. She's now the wrong way around for Brak to attack. This whole
move -
(which is called 'wrong-footing') actually takes less than second. I've
seen this move many times- especially in my feral colonies- its pure
artistry to watch (as long as the attacker backs down).




As you can see, he's almost twice her
weight.

Wife has had enough and had told me one of them has to go. We love them
all, Brak and Warren were inseperable which is why we adopted them both
(though they don't seem to be now, Brak jumps on him sometimes too and
****es him off). Zena is wife's cat from before our marriage.

More living space might help the problem, but right now we simply
don't have more space to give them. They're confined to the downstairs
which gives them 3 rooms. Wife doesn't trust them upstairs (except Kaya)
as they jump into baby's crib (Kaya is small enough to squeeze under the
gate blocking off the upstairs).

The plant sprayer doesn't deter Brak at all. He hates it but even after
a
year of squirting him, he won't change his behavior. When he had her
trapped behind the TV the other day, he ignored my wife yelling at him
because he knew she couldn't get to him physically. She had to find the
water bottle and spray him to get him to leave Zena alone.

I don't want to get rid of Brak or Zena, but I'm not sure what I can do
to change Brak's behavior.


Brak's behavior is not the problem- Zena is the instigator. She's wary of
Brak and her wariness is probably provoking Brak and inducing the attacks.
Punishing him is also inflamming the situation because he's associating
the
punishment with Zena's presence.

What I think you should do is separate the cats behind a net or gates.
Two,
22" and one 36" Gerry Gates will fit in a doorway from floor to top and
still allow you to open and close the door without removing the gates.

Here's what it looks like:

http://www.maxshouse.com/introducing_cats.htm

Feed the cats as far from the gates as possible for a few days. When you
see the cats eating in peace and showing no fear or aggression, gradually
move the food and water bowls closer to the gates every few days until the
bowls are touching the gates and cats eat without the showing fear or
aggression. Don't rush it or try to force or induce the cats to approach
each other. The object of this plan is to make Zena feel comfortable in
Brak's presence.

When the cats approach each other through the gates and eat without
showing
any signs of fear or aggression for several *consecutive* days, you can
remove the gates- but supervise the first few initial contacts. Have a
blanket ready to throw just in case.

Let me know how it goes.

Best of luck,

Phil


Thanks for the advice Phil, I'm not sure if it applies though,
here is why. They can lay within 6" of each other on the floor
most of the time with no problems. We were feeding her
on the other side of the room for the past year because Brak
would finish his food and then push her out of the way to
eat from her bowl, but recently we started feeding her
with all the other cats and Brak no longer seems to do that.
There are no fights or attitudes most of the time.

It's just that every now and again, Brak will just decide
he wants to "play" and will jump on her. Then the
yowling starts, and her fur goes flying and we see Brak
chasing after her with a mouth full of her white
fur. For the next couple of hours, if Brak just walks by her,
she will hiss at him as he passes (he completely ignores it,
doesn't look at her, doesn't flinch).

They could eat right against each other at the gate right now
without issue. If you still feel this will help, I'll try to figure out
how we can do it (the house layout really doesn't work, but
if one of them lived in the (very large) bathroom, it might be
possible.

Thanks for the advice and your time.

RobR wrote:
Brak no longer seems to do that.
There are no fights or attitudes most of the time.

It's just that every now and again, Brak will just decide
he wants to "play" and will jump on her. Then the
yowling starts, and her fur goes flying and we see Brak
chasing after her with a mouth full of her white
fur. For the next couple of hours, if Brak just walks by her,
she will hiss at him as he passes (he completely ignores it,
doesn't look at her, doesn't flinch).


Quite the contrast from the original post.

Originally, It sounded like a daily routine of fur flying and bullying?
Now it's every now and again.

Which is it man!

Cause every now and again, I too like to start some trouble, you know
:0

Here I was thinking your cat had a behavior problem.

and I agree with the other posts, the space is tight tension is going
to build, and boredom is going to set in.

Now I think, some extra-cirricular cat activities can relieve the
tension and or slash boredoms.

Good Luck

Quite the contrast from the original post.

Originally, It sounded like a daily routine of fur flying and bullying?
Now it's every now and again.

Which is it man!

Cause every now and again, I too like to start some trouble, you know
:0

Here I was thinking your cat had a behavior problem.

and I agree with the other posts, the space is tight tension is going
to build, and boredom is going to set in.

Now I think, some extra-cirricular cat activities can relieve the
tension and or slash boredoms.

Good Luck


it is an every day thing, a few times a day, but more often
after we go to bed. it's just not an all the time thing.

"RobR" wrote
it is an every day thing, a few times a day, but more often
after we go to bed. it's just not an all the time thing.



I don't know if you saw my post, it might have gotten lost in all the
bickering.
I do think more space is needed. Can you just close the nursery door and
not block off the whole upstairs?
Also, when fighting ensues, try distracting the cats. Not with water
pistols, shouting, etc, but throw a toy, grab the laser pointer, do
something to divert attention away from the fight.
I know it's hard to tell because we're only going by posts and aren't living
it, but it doesn't sound *that* bad to where one cat needs to be removed
from the home.

--
-Kelly

"KellyH" wrote in message
...
"RobR" wrote
it is an every day thing, a few times a day, but more often
after we go to bed. it's just not an all the time thing.



I don't know if you saw my post, it might have gotten lost in all the
bickering.
I do think more space is needed. Can you just close the nursery door and
not block off the whole upstairs?
Also, when fighting ensues, try distracting the cats. Not with water
pistols, shouting, etc, but throw a toy, grab the laser pointer, do
something to divert attention away from the fight.
I know it's hard to tell because we're only going by posts and aren't
living it, but it doesn't sound *that* bad to where one cat needs to be
removed from the home.

--
-Kelly



I don't think it's "that bad" either, from what I can tell, Zena
really isn't getting hurt, and though I do feel bad for her, it's not
exactly life and death. The wife however says she can't take
it anymore. The upstairs is only two rooms, you pass through
our bedroom to get to the baby's room. When that door is
closed, I let the cats up here, or sometimes just bring Zena
up and close the gate to the upstairs. It helps, at night though
the door to the baby's room is always open, so the gate is
closed and that's when the majority of the fighting seems to
happen (at least to me, but then again I'm not home during
the day and wife says it happens then too).

"RobR" wrote
I don't think it's "that bad" either, from what I can tell, Zena
really isn't getting hurt, and though I do feel bad for her, it's not
exactly life and death. The wife however says she can't take
it anymore. The upstairs is only two rooms, you pass through
our bedroom to get to the baby's room. When that door is
closed, I let the cats up here, or sometimes just bring Zena
up and close the gate to the upstairs. It helps, at night though
the door to the baby's room is always open, so the gate is
closed and that's when the majority of the fighting seems to
happen (at least to me, but then again I'm not home during
the day and wife says it happens then too).


Try the Feliway diffusers. They worked for my cats. It helps the more
aggressive cat calm down and the wimpy cat not be so afraid. I don't know
what your cat tower situation is like, but if you add a nice big cat tower,
that can help the cats feel like they have more space. Cats include
vertical space in their square footage of living area, and if Zena can perch
at the top out of harm's way, it might help her feel more secure.

I can understand where your wife is coming from. Although the babies'
aren't here yet, I'm home most of the day as I can't do a whole lot right
now, and it's like everything that goes on in the house is magnified 10
times because that's all I've got going on. So if the cats were fighting
and it was only a few times a day, it would seem like all the time.

--
-Kelly

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:18:33 GMT, "RobR" wrote:

snip tale of the cats fighting and stuff

Hi Rob,

I have a very similar situation to yours. Only recently has the victim
cat started to fight back against the bully. I am not really sure what
brought about the change though, as I have been trying a couple of
different things.

Things I tried that may or may not have worked:

- try showing the bully cat more affection than the victim
pet the bully first, feed him first, play with him first, etc.

- don't let the bully cat see you giving affection to the victim cat.

- add enough litter boxes so each have 2 of their own to choose from
(if possible)

- oddly enough, it really seemed like Elwood started to fight back
when I switched them over to a canned only diet instead of dry
kibbles.
That is probably a coincidence though.

- as others have mentioned, when you see a possible fight ready to
break out, try tossing a toy by the bully, or do something to distract
him.

- I tried the Feliway, and it didn't seem to help to much ,though some
have had good results.

- It seems like once the victim cat fought back, things got a lot
better.

That is all I can think of now.

Good luck!

Barry,
I do have to agree with you. About the discipline. A child needs it no
matter what. A cat or kitten, however needs discipline to learn its
boundries. So Barry I 100% agree with you!


bigbadbarry wrote:
Hitting a cat is inhumane.

Cats are not human / my goodness

I never used the word "Strike".

However, we will play it your way and give cats a human role. Human
mothers and father do spank thier children. (You still haven't read my
post)

Why would a body "hit" a body?
Makes no sense. Just hit them;

It's called love. when you love a child you discipline them.
A father that does not correct his child has a ******* for a son. (all
children need correction, they are born with a measure of foolishness
bound up in thier hearts, it has to be driven from them)

Also, the aggressor
associates the punishment with the other cat - which can lead to attacks at
the sight of the other cat and only increases the aggression.

This is hearsay at best! However, we'll play it this way too...

This is exactly what you want!
------------------------------
You want the bully to know the consequence of his action. I want him to
associate getting his ass busted with bullying another cat. "lest he
should forget". I want him to remember. Please do associate my action
with that action (bullying). By all means, associate. Believe me, they
quickly associate.

Hitting a cat also breaks down the cat-owner trust and bond--- not that
you have a bond with your cat.

I don't "own" my cat no more than I might say, "own" a wife. You own a
car, or a house, the only instance I know where one would claim to
"own" where warm blood is involved would be in a slave situation.

We are stewards, we are guardians not possessors. I do not say, that no
animal can be owned, we're talking about cats. A breeder seeing his cat
in terms of dollar signs may consider that he owns his cat; where the
cat is viewed as an asset, or an object of proffit.

If you had actually read my post you would at least know how I feel
about this, and you would stop already with the street level tactic of
insulting.

This is a partnership, one of mutual respect. When your cat has no
respect for you; it is not the cats fault; but more than likely just a
sign of pure ol neglect, not spending any quality time with them,
(among many other possible reasons). A corrective action should not be
used; where there is lack of respect. However, a cat may respect you
and still need a reminder but there is a distinct difference here, it
seperates the abuser from the partner, it seperates the healthy
relationship from the un-healthy relationship.

What really breaks down trust and bond, is when a cat is allowed for
example to do as he pleases, regardless of who he is effecting. Trust
and bond are under girded with respect, respect has got to be first.
The cat can depend on you for daily food - but this guarantees no
respect. The only way to gain the respect of your cat is to do right by
him. You can loose respect by playing favorites with your cats (they
know when you do it).

If I had a big brother bully me around and my guardian did nothing? I
would loose respect for my parent or guardian. This is all basic and
fundamental truth and practice. (reality in practice)

You deepen the relationship, you prove your love, as a bonus you made
some behavior modifications.

It really is not fair to me to have to keep writing the same things; I
suffer you once mo This is not an ongoing matter, this business of
correcting. It is best to do this around 7-9 months (give or take)
depending on the beast.
And after this...you won't need to, the balance of the cats juvenille,
young adult life can be handled with a look. Where there is mutual
respect in a partnership...what can I say, this speaks for itself. When
they are old they can do what they want, they don't have to mind
anybody.

--
Ali


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