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#41
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"bigbadbarry" wrote in message oups.com... KellyH wrote: Getting aggressive with the dominant cat is only going to inflame the situation, not diffuse it. One cannot be aggressive with ones self. I am the dominant cat. Im in charge. I call the shots. I know you realize that you, with one cat and only the experience of having this one cat alone in your house, are talking to someone (several people, in fact) who have a lot of experience with more than one cat in a house. So I know you are just theorizing here. I think it is really important that anyone who is reading your advice understands this. You're talking about breaking bad with Ruprecht when he breaks bad with you. You are not talking about having used this "method" with two cats that are fighting. Right? |
#42
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"bigbadbarry" wrote in message oups.com... Phil P. wrote: Actually, this is a cat's strongest defensive position! If she spins on her back she can position Brak so his back feet land on the ground and not on her stomach and his head and shoulders will also hit the ground. He'll have to get up to re-attack. Then all she has to do is spin on her back again so her head is nearest to Brak with her rear paws ready to kick him off. She's now the wrong way around for Brak to attack. This whole move - (which is called 'wrong-footing') actually takes less than second. I've seen this move many times- especially in my feral colonies- its pure artistry to watch (as long as the attacker backs down). As you can see, he's almost twice her weight. Wife has had enough and had told me one of them has to go. We love them all, Brak and Warren were inseperable which is why we adopted them both (though they don't seem to be now, Brak jumps on him sometimes too and ****es him off). Zena is wife's cat from before our marriage. More living space might help the problem, but right now we simply don't have more space to give them. They're confined to the downstairs which gives them 3 rooms. Wife doesn't trust them upstairs (except Kaya) as they jump into baby's crib (Kaya is small enough to squeeze under the gate blocking off the upstairs). The plant sprayer doesn't deter Brak at all. He hates it but even after a year of squirting him, he won't change his behavior. When he had her trapped behind the TV the other day, he ignored my wife yelling at him because he knew she couldn't get to him physically. She had to find the water bottle and spray him to get him to leave Zena alone. I don't want to get rid of Brak or Zena, but I'm not sure what I can do to change Brak's behavior. Brak's behavior is not the problem- Zena is the instigator. She's wary of Brak and her wariness is probably provoking Brak and inducing the attacks. Punishing him is also inflamming the situation because he's associating the punishment with Zena's presence. What I think you should do is separate the cats behind a net or gates. Two, 22" and one 36" Gerry Gates will fit in a doorway from floor to top and still allow you to open and close the door without removing the gates. Here's what it looks like: http://www.maxshouse.com/introducing_cats.htm Feed the cats as far from the gates as possible for a few days. When you see the cats eating in peace and showing no fear or aggression, gradually move the food and water bowls closer to the gates every few days until the bowls are touching the gates and cats eat without the showing fear or aggression. Don't rush it or try to force or induce the cats to approach each other. The object of this plan is to make Zena feel comfortable in Brak's presence. When the cats approach each other through the gates and eat without showing any signs of fear or aggression for several *consecutive* days, you can remove the gates- but supervise the first few initial contacts. Have a blanket ready to throw just in case. Let me know how it goes. Best of luck, Phil or he could just bust that cats ass and be done with it. I've never heard of such rubbish. Me thinks your head is a little clogged with cat poo. No, Barry. Phil is right. He's been working with cats for a very long time. You may believe in slapping the crap out of Ruprecht, but you are in a one-cat household, and this is essentially your first cat, right? The issue is two cats that are not getting along. I know you dislike Phil for giving you ****, but it is very upsetting even to me when you say things like what you say here. You don't have the experience to give this advice. And Phil is not wrong. |
#43
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"bigbadbarry" wrote in message oups.com... Phil P. wrote: Inhumane = giving cats a human role? ROTFLMAO!!! Well you can get off the floor now I can't! Your follow up post is even more stupid than your previous post! By definition, the term carries the meaning, of Not Human, Not worthy of being a human. I said hitting a cat is *inhumane* you backwoods moron, not 'inhuman'. 'Inhumane' means lacking compassion, cruel. What the heck is so funny, Your monumental stupidity! |
#44
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RobR wrote: We have four amazing indoor only cats, but over the past couple of years, one of them has really become a bully to one of our other cats. Here's our cat family: Brak - Male 18lb - 5y old (the bully) Warren (Braks brother) - Male 13lb - 5y old Kaya - Female - 7lb - 10mo Zena - Female - 10lb - 13y Peace goes before me, and peace goes behind me. When there is peace in the house then everybodys happy. One big love fest. Rob, do what your common sense tells you to do. |
#45
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"bigbadbarry" wrote in message oups.com... RobR wrote: We have four amazing indoor only cats, but over the past couple of years, one of them has really become a bully to one of our other cats. Here's our cat family: Brak - Male 18lb - 5y old (the bully) Warren (Braks brother) - Male 13lb - 5y old Kaya - Female - 7lb - 10mo Zena - Female - 10lb - 13y Peace goes before me, and peace goes behind me. When there is peace in the house then everybodys happy. One big love fest. Rob, do what your common sense tells you to do. There'sa ****a before me, anna there'sa ****a behind me. Anna when I smella cat **** inna the kitchen, thenna I throw uppa ma food. One unnahappy wife. |
#46
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Mary wrote: I know you dislike Phil for giving you ****, but it is very upsetting even to me when you say things like what you say here. You don't have the experience to give this advice. And Phil is not wrong. Let there be spaces between us and all that... You have your opinions. 10's of 100's of thousands of people feel the way I do. This group primarily does not. So this certainly makes me the minority. And this group is just a fart in a windstorm with mainstream belief. I have plenty experience training animals. Far more intelligent animals than than cats! Everyone could stand to learn something from ol Barry I know what I'm talking about. I'd be more open minded to people here, if they could lay off the insults. I quit. I was wrong for getting caught up in a flame war with anyone. It was vulgar, I felt bad. You on the other hand you cannot imagine spanking your cat (which this is not what it is about, it is more about training and getting the desired behavior through a mutual respect) but I'm not writing all that again, it's here if anyone cares to read my views. You'd rather cut of your arms? than lay a hand to you cat? I don't blame you, your cats are not going through adolesence and rebellions and uprisings and trying thier boundaries, so of course this is unimanginable to you. However, someone like Rob? those 2 cats are being allowed to disrupt the house. For 3 years. And Rob don't know what to do? Well, he should handle his business and keep it to himself. Of course he could alway pill his cat, or sedate the cat with food. Sure there's all kinds of way to get around the weakness of not wanting discipline your cat. All sorts of ways. You can throw toys to distract them. I liked that one. You guys are not giving cats any credit for intelligence. You telling me that a cat who runs when you call him down don't know the difference between right and wrong. Hogwash! Your telling me that cats will not respond to a swat? This is asyncly how cats go about it. Woman I have no idea where you are coming from. You don't need to put words in my mouth, or piously remind me of the cummalative experience here. We no that traditions are no good, if they don't work. I've never heard such waffling IN MY LIFE. If Zena and Brak were mine. I'd tag Zena, pretty lite on time, and tell her stoppit. (for egging brak on) This may cure Braks weakness for her calls. Poor little fella can't resist, ol sour puss sitting over there begging for him to come an get her. yeah, I know how these thing work. If Brak initiated the matter, then I'd gently and politely, tag him one, and repeat as needed till they stop. I got a feeling once Brak see's Zena get one for being a sour puss...then he will stop on his own. Why clutter the mans head with sillyness. I sware some people on here would send that man to the vet, the vet would ream him out with no vaseline, in the end, the cat gets sedated. I'd rather get my ass kicked than have my partner or guardian, do a mind #$$%% on me with some pill. |
#47
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Justin L wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:18:33 GMT, "RobR" wrote: snip tale of the cats fighting and stuff Here are the snipped facts. Brak - Male 18lb - 5y old (the bully) Zena - Female - 10lb - 13y Brak is beating up on Zena. I have a very similar situation to yours. Apparently the only similarity is that they are cats and one is a bully. The fact that Zena is hissing suggests she is under a lot of stress. Only recently has the victim cat started to fight back against the bully. I am not really sure what brought about the change though, as I have been trying a couple of different things. Things I tried that may or may not have worked: - try showing the bully cat more affection than the victim pet the bully first, feed him first, play with him first, etc. - don't let the bully cat see you giving affection to the victim cat. - add enough litter boxes so each have 2 of their own to choose from (if possible) - oddly enough, it really seemed like Elwood started to fight back when I switched them over to a canned only diet instead of dry kibbles. That is probably a coincidence though. - as others have mentioned, when you see a possible fight ready to break out, try tossing a toy by the bully, or do something to distract him. - I tried the Feliway, and it didn't seem to help to much ,though some have had good results. - It seems like once the victim cat fought back, things got a lot better. That is all I can think of now. Good luck! From: Justin L leejustice2 hotmail.com Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Subject: cat is a bully Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:48:26 -0500 Message-ID: hicja1h94mmmei5kpo5iaf6h9t8kso8jt3 4ax.com References: Jm2qe.3843$qE2.1144@trndny09 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: h69-21-197-34.69-21.unk.tds.net X-Trace: newspeer2.tds.net 1118418415 69.21.197.34 (10 Jun 2005 10:46:55 CST) Lines: 39 Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: newssvr19.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy. com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.pro digy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!pr odigy.net!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net !tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!news-out.news.tds.net!216.170.153.144.MISMATCH!newspeer 2.tds.net!not-for-mail Xref: newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com rec.pets.cats.health+behav:372356 |
#48
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Zena rolling over onto her back is a submissive position. She is
very afraid and as the original poster explicitly stated, it does nothing to deter Brak. "Phil P." wrote: Path: newssvr33.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy. com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.pro digy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!pr odigy.net!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.gigan ews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news.giganew s.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 02:12:05 -0500 From: "Phil P." phil maxshouse.com Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav References: Jm2qe.3843$qE2.1144@trndny09 Subject: cat is a bully Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:10:09 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Message-ID: zt2dnZL1X6PYoDTfRVn-3w giganews.com Lines: 90 X-Trace: sv3-FppykMsbj3gZMQKdMGqf84iT6AgLuuVZZ0dHfuCnZqN+DsCFB0 kd6T128+H8Fjk/TB2NLpE0UKyePWq!NtBqWwH0O74Y6OEwMCJVuxX6Bb4NUKtcs6 jxWwJjsgV81jAsfYnh0Py9qVUNUlU= X-Complaints-To: X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Xref: newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com rec.pets.cats.health+behav:372308 "RobR" wrote in message news:Jm2qe.3843$qE2.1144@trndny09... We have four amazing indoor only cats, but over the past couple of years, one of them has really become a bully to one of our other cats. Here's our cat family: Brak - Male 18lb - 5y old (the bully) Warren (Braks brother) - Male 13lb - 5y old Kaya - Female - 7lb - 10mo Zena - Female - 10lb - 13y Brak is probably the best lap cat/people bather (except he can't sit still in your lap for more than 30 seconds at a time before he has to readjust), but he will NOT leave Zena alone. He traps her into corners and behind the big TV and bites at and wrestles her. She screams and yowls, she won't fight, she rolls over on her back which makes it even easier for Brak to assault her. Actually, this is a cat's strongest defensive position! If she spins on her back she can position Brak so his back feet land on the ground and not on her stomach and his head and shoulders will also hit the ground. He'll have to get up to re-attack. Then all she has to do is spin on her back again so her head is nearest to Brak with her rear paws ready to kick him off. She's now the wrong way around for Brak to attack. This whole move - (which is called 'wrong-footing') actually takes less than second. I've seen this move many times- especially in my feral colonies- its pure artistry to watch (as long as the attacker backs down). As you can see, he's almost twice her weight. Wife has had enough and had told me one of them has to go. We love them all, Brak and Warren were inseperable which is why we adopted them both (though they don't seem to be now, Brak jumps on him sometimes too and ****es him off). Zena is wife's cat from before our marriage. More living space might help the problem, but right now we simply don't have more space to give them. They're confined to the downstairs which gives them 3 rooms. Wife doesn't trust them upstairs (except Kaya) as they jump into baby's crib (Kaya is small enough to squeeze under the gate blocking off the upstairs). The plant sprayer doesn't deter Brak at all. He hates it but even after a year of squirting him, he won't change his behavior. When he had her trapped behind the TV the other day, he ignored my wife yelling at him because he knew she couldn't get to him physically. She had to find the water bottle and spray him to get him to leave Zena alone. I don't want to get rid of Brak or Zena, but I'm not sure what I can do to change Brak's behavior. Brak's behavior is not the problem- Zena is the instigator. She's wary of Brak and her wariness is probably provoking Brak and inducing the attacks. Punishing him is also inflamming the situation because he's associating the punishment with Zena's presence. What I think you should do is separate the cats behind a net or gates. Two, 22" and one 36" Gerry Gates will fit in a doorway from floor to top and still allow you to open and close the door without removing the gates. Here's what it looks like: http://www.maxshouse.com/introducing_cats.htm Feed the cats as far from the gates as possible for a few days. When you see the cats eating in peace and showing no fear or aggression, gradually move the food and water bowls closer to the gates every few days until the bowls are touching the gates and cats eat without the showing fear or aggression. Don't rush it or try to force or induce the cats to approach each other. The object of this plan is to make Zena feel comfortable in Brak's presence. When the cats approach each other through the gates and eat without showing any signs of fear or aggression for several *consecutive* days, you can remove the gates- but supervise the first few initial contacts. Have a blanket ready to throw just in case. Let me know how it goes. Best of luck, Phil |
#49
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"Mary" wrote:
.... No, Barry. Phil is right. He's been working with cats for a very long time. Anyone who suggests that Xena rolling over onto her back is stopping Brak apparently has not learned much, and maybe did not even read the original post. .... that particular position is not defensive, it is completely submissive .... the original poster explicitly stated that it does nothing to deter Brak You may believe in slapping the crap out of Ruprecht, but you are in a one-cat household, and this is essentially your first cat, right? The issue is two cats that are not getting along. I know you dislike Phil for giving you ****, but it is very upsetting even to me when you say things like what you say here. You don't have the experience to give this advice. And Phil is not wrong. Path: newssvr19.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy. com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.pro digy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!pr odigy.net!news.glorb.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com!manticore.nntpserver.com.POSTE D!teranews!not-for-mail From: "Mary" marys catlovernospam.com Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav References: Jm2qe.3843$qE2.1144@trndny09 .com Subject: cat is a bully Lines: 111 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:26:47 EST Message-ID: 1118420808.4e066965986629aee121b56a961cb0d1 teranews X-Abuse-Report: http://www.usenetabuse.com X-Abuse-Notes: Abuse reports must be submited via the usenetabuse.com portal listed above. X-Abuse-Notes2: Reports sent via any other method will not be processed. X-Abuse-Notes3: Any other abuse reporting headers in this article are fraudulent. X-Orginal-Message-ID: m Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:26:47 -0400 Xref: newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com rec.pets.cats.health+behav:372363 |
#50
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"John Doe" wrote in message ... Zena rolling over onto her back is a submissive position. No it isn't, unless she is a dog. A submissive cat crouches low to the ground and cries. |
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