My cats have never been out

on Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:11:17 GMT, "cybercat" wrote:

You can if you're a blowhard idiot.

*snort*

--
Lynne

On 22 Jun, 18:03, PawsForThought wrote:
On Jun 20, 8:41 pm, bookie wrote:

yeah and stay indoors yourselves too cos you never know whether you
may get hit by a car crossing the road

People know the dangers of crossing a road, and thus are able to
travel across the road safely. Cats have no idea what the dangers of
the road mean. They can't read signs and they can't read traffic
lights, as far as I know. That's why it's our duty and obligation to
protect these animals we care for. You can't compare people to cats.

thats why if I lived on or very close to a busy road i would not have
a cat, or I would try to restrict it to the back garden with decent
fencing.

do you know what a cul-de-sac is? that is the kind of road i live in,
strict speed limits, no through traffic, kids playing inthe street
outside because there are no cars driving through (well they would
have a hard time if they tried, nowhere to go really).
as I said before there are many houses in this street which have cats,
more than one, all of them are allowed out, most of them spend their
evenings trotting about between people's gardens, front and back,
apart from the white and tabby monster from 3 doors up who only goes
as far as my door cos he knows I will give him extra food in the
evening (the girls' leftovers really, supposed to be for the
hedgehogs).

like I have said many times before you cannot judge about an area
someone lives in and whether ti is safe for their cats to go outside
unless you have been there. In fact that we have lots fo hedgehogs
hanging about in gardens alive and not squashed on the street might
even give you a clue as to the level of traffic in my area.
also my cats are not allowed out at night unless accompanied, and of
course they sleep indoors, where else woudl they stay?

I am reminded of a saying which I think is this
"it is better to live 1 day as a lion than a thousand years as a lamb"
or something like that
jeez

bookie wrote:

like I have said many times before you cannot judge about an area
someone lives in and whether ti is safe for their cats to go outside
unless you have been there.

Bookie,

That is the point I was trying to make. Why do you judge those of us in
the US who leave our cats indoors?

Rhonda

On 23 Jun, 01:09, bookie wrote:
On 22 Jun, 18:03, PawsForThought wrote:

On Jun 20, 8:41 pm, bookie wrote:

yeah and stay indoors yourselves too cos you never know whether you
may get hit by a car crossing the road

People know the dangers of crossing a road, and thus are able to
travel across the road safely. Cats have no idea what the dangers of
the road mean. They can't read signs and they can't read traffic
lights, as far as I know. That's why it's our duty and obligation to
protect these animals we care for. You can't compare people to cats.

thats why if I lived on or very close to a busy road i would not have
a cat, or I would try to restrict it to the back garden with decent
fencing.

do you know what a cul-de-sac is? that is the kind of road i live in,
strict speed limits, no through traffic, kids playing in the street
outside because there are no cars driving through (well they would
have a hard time if they tried, nowhere to go really).
as I said before there are many houses in this street which have cats,
more than one, all of them are allowed out, most of them spend their
evenings trotting about between people's gardens, front and back,
apart from the white and tabby monster from 3 doors up who only goes
as far as my door cos he knows I will give him extra food in the
evening (the girls' leftovers really, supposed to be for the
hedgehogs).

like I have said many times before you cannot judge about an area
someone lives in and whether ti is safe for their cats to go outside
unless you have been there. In fact that we have lots fo hedgehogs
hanging about in gardens alive and not squashed on the street might
even give you a clue as to the level of traffic in my area.
also my cats are not allowed out at night unless accompanied, and of
course they sleep indoors, where else woudl they stay?

I am reminded of a saying which I think is this
"it is better to live 1 day as a lion than a thousand years as a lamb"
or something like that
jeez


do you know what a cul-de-sac is?

A cul de sac is a very short dead end road. The only thing in that
short road are the residences of the people, who's children are
playing football, skipping, Tag, run & hide, down that road in the
middle of that street. In 99.999% of the time, the only people who
drive down that road, actually live there & have chosen to reside
there because it is safe for their kids to play in the middle of that
road - or people who are visiting the people who reside there. The
chances of a cat being run over down one of these roads, is around the
same as you running down your own cat, because no one else drives down
them.

I think the point that Bookie is trying to make here, is that she
truly believes that she is doing what she feel is right by her cat, &
the chances of her cat's being hurt, run over, or savaged by our wild
life, are next to nothing. as she points out, they are only allowed
out whilst she is there. She does have parameters in her garden, & if
she walks down her own road, her cats only ever go as far as the road
because she is with them @ the time....

I have no wish to be drawn into the do you allow your cat out, or keep
them indoor, debate, because I believe that this a very personal
choice. If that was all I had to worry about when I let my cats out,
then I would allow mine to roam as they wished to....

(However, if you would like to refer to my posting in Ping Sheelagh,
where Marii B has been kind enough to show me what local wild life is
truely like for the vast majority of you it would seem, then you will
also see that I can totally understand why you all feel so
passionately about keeping your cats as indoor cats. I really had no
idea how different our wild life truely is...!!)
In the UK, the domestic cat is still on the wild life list, believe it
or not!
But, then again, I had no idea what a Bob Cat was, or an opposum
looked like, or a tarantula spider either, ....or that they are
considered as normal in your back gardens. Rabies another issue
altogether too....

Unfortunately, as a lot of you know, The biggest worry that I /we
face/ have in the UK, is not people running over my cat, or even the
local wild life savaging them or being bitten by a Rabid
creature..rather it is human beings that have wrecked my faith in
allowing my cats to roam as they used to.....

I have nearly lost 2 cats in the last 12 months to mindless idiotic
children/ young adults, who did know better, but still chose to shoot
my beloved Ringo, & one of the kittens that we homed with another
family too. Simply Target practise to them, but a huge loss to us all
here...

In view of this, I choose to keep my cats indoors most of the time. I
still feel guilty however, for taking their liberty away from them
through no fault of their own. So, I choose to allow them out into a
cat run during the day if they are asking to go out, & when I have the
time, I also take most of them out to meadow that is behind our home,
but now, I put them on a pair of reins and take them out in pairs,
into the very same field where Ringo was shot a few months ago @ near
point blank range.

I still feel so angry about this incident, but I refuse to be bullied
into keeping them as **indoor only** cats, because, I am taking away
the liberty that they already had. nonetheless, I do feel that I can
no longer allow them out without me being with them to protect them
against the worst predator of all, which of course are Human Beings.
Human beings can be far more ruthless than any other mammals that "I"
have encountered in this country, to date.

It is the best compromise that I can come to with my cats and my
conscience too.
S.

On 23 Jun, 00:09, Igenlode Use-Author-Supplied-Address-
] wrote:
On 21 Jun 2007 barb wrote:
[snip] You live in the UK? I was there for a week years ago and from what I
remember they did have traffic.

In my experience almost all cats in this country (the UK) are allowed
outside -- indeed, until very recent times it was a part of normal
household routine to "put the cat out" last thing at night, to prevent
it from sleeping indoors. Walk down the average suburban road, and
you're likely to find half a dozen cats sunning themselves as you pass.

And yes, you do see "Lost cat" notices on lamp-posts; that's considered
normal, too. Some of them get run over, although I don't know how the
statistics compare to human casualties. The chief national source of
concern appears to be that the cats get into other people's gardens and
make a mess in the flower-beds.

Keeping a cat permanently indoors is an unusual thing to do, although I
can see that it would be physically possible, which it isn't with dogs.
(Do many high-rise blocks even allow pets?)
--
Igenlode Visit the Ivory Tower http://ivory.150m.com/Tower/

* Never assume malice when ignorance is a possibility *




*I like the Quote. It's sooo True!! "o"

* Never assume malice when ignorance is a possibility *

I hate this back and forth arguing. The bottom line is that we all
come from different places where circumstances are different, & so are
our cultures...
& most of us are ignorant to the others beliefs, customs and reasons
for the way we/ they do things.....

I can totally understand why most people in the USA choose to keep
their pets indoors. If I thought for one moment that a Rabid Bob cat
might attack my child or my cats, I would probably never allow either
of them outside as well.

But, the difference is that we don't have Rabies, or Bob Cats, or even
Skunks, or opossums, or any other of things that I have learned about
this evening...

Most people *do ask me why I don't allow my cat's to go out*, as, &
when they please....( as you say, it is normal here in the UK)
I have simply got the stage where it is easier to explain that, should
I allow them to roam free, that some of them are pedigree cats, & it
is highly likely that someone might steal them!! Which is
true..But....

It is so much easier than telling them the real truth, which is that
my main fear is exactly that.. & also the fact that they are far more
likely to have yet another BB gun pointed @ them, & that humans are
far more likely to hurt or maim them, than any other threat out there.
It is a sad fact but also the truth.....

I honestly do feel that it is up to the slave concerned, to do the
right thing by their cat. We all live in different places, where the
threats to our cats are different.

I wouldn't dream of calling anyone names, or even shaking my head @
their stupidity, simply because I don't understand the threat posed to
their cats.
They know their cats, & they also know the threats that their cats
face too, so I would be wrong to call them an idiot because they don't
do things my way, or the way that I perceive to be right IMHO.....

Some might, ( & HAVE!!) said, "don't come crawling to me if your
cat"....
I'm certain that 99.999% of us do already take the best precautions
that we possibly can, to ensure that we never put our cats in that
position. I don't fear traffic, wildlife, or even dogs, but I do fear
other human beings...

I choose to allow my cats a bit of freedom, but only under my
supervision. I feel terribly guilty for taking away their liberty,
because some damned Idiot shot one of them. that is not their fault..
it was mine for being so trusting... therefore, I have decided that it
is up to me to make sure they do get @ least as bit of their freedom
back, a bit of real fresh air & natural stimulation, as well as the
cat pen if they simply want a bit of fresh air & bird watching....the
rest of it has to be on a pair of reins in pairs to the meadow where I
can see them & any threat they might face too

I know it is no where near the same liberty they used to have, but
that is the only way that I feel is safe enough for them...
I am sick and tired of people giving me strange looks when I try &
explain that I don't trust other people... but why do I feel that I
have to lie about it?
S;o)

"sheelagh" wrote in message
oups.com...

I know it is no where near the same liberty they used to have, but
that is the only way that I feel is safe enough for them...
I am sick and tired of people giving me strange looks when I try &
explain that I don't trust other people...

After his accident, I wouldn't let Joxer out for a few months. He didn't
like it, and was happy to be let out again. But given that he's a black cat,
around Halloween I really wouldn't let him out period, because I know there
are sickos who would think a black cat is just what they need to do horrible
stuff to on that day. Now he doesn't even really want to go out. I've always
let him out in our yard, but he doesn't like this one I guess. He has a
game...meow at the door to act like he wants out, then run away as soon as I
open the door. Mishka and Dosie(our other 2 dogs) only go out on the leash
in the yard(we have the chickens/bunnies/geese roaming free in the yard
during the day), because they haven't gotten it through their heads that our
'livestock' are not toys for them. Shadowbear knows, of course she still
wants to, but anytime I see her eyeing one of them I say No! and she comes
back to me(I usually have her out with me when I'm doing chores so I can
keep an eye on her, plus I'm the only one here at our cul-de-sac right now,
so I feel safe having her out there with me). So Shadowbear is allowed to
roam the yard untethered. We have 1.2acres, so when I take Mishka/Dosie out,
I usually take them around the whole perimeter so they get exercise. Plus I
feel that them doing their business around the perimeter is a good deterrent
to wild animals coming in, since they'll smell the deposits and think Hey
there's a lot of dogs here, maybe we should go somewhere else! But yeah, I
don't trust people around here either. Especially if Shadowbear(our fence
jumper) decides to roam the neighborhood when I get distracted with
yardwork...she is a very friendly dog, but others might not know that. They
just see a strange dog in their yard. And quite a few people in this area(it
being rural with wild animals) have (shot)guns, and I have heard there's at
least one crazy in our neighborhood, and if anything happened to
Shadowbear...it's bad enough she nearly lost an eye once. We were driving
home late at night last July, and all of a sudden we see this HUGE black cow
in the road(it took up the whole road, was across both lanes), and it's too
late to avoid it, and the car gets totaled. We had all of the dogs with us,
Mishka was in my lap, and when I saw the cow, I knew we were gonna hit it,
and I'm thinking the windshield's gonna break and glass is gonna come flying
towards my face, so I put my head down and cover it with my hands and lift
my legs up as much as I can to form a kinda ball, so she was totally
protected. Shadowbear/Dosie were in the backseat though, and the back
passenger window, the cow busted that as well, and Shadowbear got hit by
some flying glass, and it BARELY missed her eyeball. It(the cut) started
like right under her eye, maybe only a millimeter or two from getting her
eye. She must have closed her eyes, which is the only thing that probably
saved that eye. She also got another cut/gash on her rump, but not serious.
Dosie had no physical injuries, but ever since then, she's been very
skittish about sounds, and at first she would start shaking horribly anytime
mom started the car, even if Dosie was in the house. Haven taken her on car
rides since then, but she's still iffy. The first time we were in a new car
after the accident, she was fine until we drove past where they were fixing
the culverts in the roads, and there was a slight bump at one point, and
when we did the bump, Dosie freaked and jumped into my lap and wouldn't
leave(right after the accident she did the same). Shadowbear had some mental
trauma as well(she first got really aggressive, then really passive, now
she's back to normal). Mishka being totally protected by me really had no
clue, so she was perfectly fine. She(Mishka) and mom were the best off from
the accident, since my back's been funky ever since. Had my back checked out
but nothing seemed wrong, even though I know there is something wrong. Wow
that was a long(for me) post....I need a drink(mocha frappucino is my drink
of choice)

On 23 Jun, 02:03, sheelagh wrote:
On 23 Jun, 01:09, bookie wrote:





On 22 Jun, 18:03, PawsForThought wrote:

On Jun 20, 8:41 pm, bookie wrote:

yeah and stay indoors yourselves too cos you never know whether you
may get hit by a car crossing the road

People know the dangers of crossing a road, and thus are able to
travel across the road safely. Cats have no idea what the dangers of
the road mean. They can't read signs and they can't read traffic
lights, as far as I know. That's why it's our duty and obligation to
protect these animals we care for. You can't compare people to cats.

thats why if I lived on or very close to a busy road i would not have
a cat, or I would try to restrict it to the back garden with decent
fencing.

do you know what a cul-de-sac is? that is the kind of road i live in,
strict speed limits, no through traffic, kids playing in the street
outside because there are no cars driving through (well they would
have a hard time if they tried, nowhere to go really).
as I said before there are many houses in this street which have cats,
more than one, all of them are allowed out, most of them spend their
evenings trotting about between people's gardens, front and back,
apart from the white and tabby monster from 3 doors up who only goes
as far as my door cos he knows I will give him extra food in the
evening (the girls' leftovers really, supposed to be for the
hedgehogs).

like I have said many times before you cannot judge about an area
someone lives in and whether ti is safe for their cats to go outside
unless you have been there. In fact that we have lots fo hedgehogs
hanging about in gardens alive and not squashed on the street might
even give you a clue as to the level of traffic in my area.
also my cats are not allowed out at night unless accompanied, and of
course they sleep indoors, where else woudl they stay?

I am reminded of a saying which I think is this
"it is better to live 1 day as a lion than a thousand years as a lamb"
or something like that
jeez
do you know what a cul-de-sac is?

A cul de sac is a very short dead end road. The only thing in that
short road are the residences of the people, who's children are
playing football, skipping, Tag, run & hide, down that road in the
middle of that street. In 99.999% of the time, the only people who
drive down that road, actually live there & have chosen to reside
there because it is safe for their kids to play in the middle of that
road - or people who are visiting the people who reside there. The
chances of a cat being run over down one of these roads, is around the
same as you running down your own cat, because no one else drives down
them.

I think the point that Bookie is trying to make here, is that she
truly believes that she is doing what she feel is right by her cat, &
the chances of her cat's being hurt, run over, or savaged by our wild
life, are next to nothing. as she points out, they are only allowed
out whilst she is there. She does have parameters in her garden, & if
she walks down her own road, her cats only ever go as far as the road
because she is with them @ the time....

I have no wish to be drawn into the do you allow your cat out, or keep
them indoor, debate, because I believe that this a very personal
choice. If that was all I had to worry about when I let my cats out,
then I would allow mine to roam as they wished to....

(However, if you would like to refer to my posting in Ping Sheelagh,
where Marii B has been kind enough to show me what local wild life is
truely like for the vast majority of you it would seem, then you will
also see that I can totally understand why you all feel so
passionately about keeping your cats as indoor cats. I really had no
idea how different our wild life truely is...!!)
In the UK, the domestic cat is still on the wild life list, believe it
or not!
But, then again, I had no idea what a Bob Cat was, or an opposum
looked like, or a tarantula spider either, ....or that they are
considered as normal in your back gardens. Rabies another issue
altogether too....

Unfortunately, as a lot of you know, The biggest worry that I /we
face/ have in the UK, is not people running over my cat, or even the
local wild life savaging them or being bitten by a Rabid
creature..rather it is human beings that have wrecked my faith in
allowing my cats to roam as they used to.....

I have nearly lost 2 cats in the last 12 months to mindless idiotic
children/ young adults, who did know better, but still chose to shoot
my beloved Ringo, & one of the kittens that we homed with another
family too. Simply Target practise to them, but a huge loss to us all
here...

In view of this, I choose to keep my cats indoors most of the time. I
still feel guilty however, for taking their liberty away from them
through no fault of their own. So, I choose to allow them out into a
cat run during the day if they are asking to go out, & when I have the
time, I also take most of them out to meadow that is behind our home,
but now, I put them on a pair of reins and take them out in pairs,
into the very same field where Ringo was shot a few months ago @ near
point blank range.

I still feel so angry about this incident, but I refuse to be bullied
into keeping them as **indoor only** cats, because, I am taking away
the liberty that they already had. nonetheless, I do feel that I can
no longer allow them out without me being with them to protect them
against the worst predator of all, which of course are Human Beings.
Human beings can be far more ruthless than any other mammals that "I"
have encountered in this country, to date.

It is the best compromise that I can come to with my cats and my
conscience too.
S.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree that in the UK the biggest danger to domestic cats is really
humans acting like mindless pricks and not really other 'wild'
animals, but again I don't really live in the middle of a some urban
ghetto so that kind of behaviour is unheard of where I live. Kids
round here are too lazy to get up off their backsides and away front
their tv screens and computer games to bother inflicting violent
assault on someone else's animals, that would involve effort on their
part, too much like hard work.

maybe if i lived in some of the places where I teach it might be a
different story though, but i don't so it's not, simple as.

On 23 Jun, 01:50, Rhonda wrote:
bookie wrote:
like I have said many times before you cannot judge about an area
someone lives in and whether ti is safe for their cats to go outside
unless you have been there.

Bookie,

That is the point I was trying to make. Why do you judge those of us in
the US who leave our cats indoors?

Rhonda

and why are you all advising someone who lives in the middle of
nowhere in 'bonnie scotland' to keep their cats in when most of you
have no clue what scotlandshire is liek in terms of remoteness
wildlife etc. I would keep my cats in doors in scotland if i lived
somewhere like motherwell or some other dodgy part of glasgow where
they may be stolen and possibly sold on in a backstreet pub as 'mini
tiger' to some gullible idiot in order to buy more drugs or meths but
not if I lived inthe country up there.
seriously, there are some really remote parts of scotland where sod
all happens and roads are single track and rarely see a car, the
possibility of anything happening to anyone, man or beast, up there is
seriously slim.

the UK is not like the US of A (thank god) and this may blow your
minds but there are some villages in Wales which dont' have mains
electricity still, and they like it that way. some of these places are
very remote, as is the chance of something untoward happening your
pets there too, apart from getting gang-raped by a posse of outlaw
hedgehogs possibly, but that's about it in the British Isles

On 23 Jun, 04:44, sheelagh wrote:
On 23 Jun, 00:09, Igenlode Use-Author-Supplied-Address-





] wrote:
On 21 Jun 2007 barb wrote:
[snip] You live in the UK? I was there for a week years ago and from what I
remember they did have traffic.

In my experience almost all cats in this country (the UK) are allowed
outside -- indeed, until very recent times it was a part of normal
household routine to "put the cat out" last thing at night, to prevent
it from sleeping indoors. Walk down the average suburban road, and
you're likely to find half a dozen cats sunning themselves as you pass.

And yes, you do see "Lost cat" notices on lamp-posts; that's considered
normal, too. Some of them get run over, although I don't know how the
statistics compare to human casualties. The chief national source of
concern appears to be that the cats get into other people's gardens and
make a mess in the flower-beds.

Keeping a cat permanently indoors is an unusual thing to do, although I
can see that it would be physically possible, which it isn't with dogs.
(Do many high-rise blocks even allow pets?)
--
Igenlode Visit the Ivory Tower http://ivory.150m.com/Tower/

* Never assume malice when ignorance is a possibility *

*I like the Quote. It's sooo True!! "o"

* Never assume malice when ignorance is a possibility *

I hate this back and forth arguing. The bottom line is that we all
come from different places where circumstances are different, & so are
our cultures...
& most of us are ignorant to the others beliefs, customs and reasons
for the way we/ they do things.....

I can totally understand why most people in the USA choose to keep
their pets indoors. If I thought for one moment that a Rabid Bob cat
might attack my child or my cats, I would probably never allow either
of them outside as well.

But, the difference is that we don't have Rabies, or Bob Cats, or even
Skunks, or opossums, or any other of things that I have learned about
this evening...

Most people *do ask me why I don't allow my cat's to go out*, as, &
when they please....( as you say, it is normal here in the UK)
I have simply got the stage where it is easier to explain that, should
I allow them to roam free, that some of them are pedigree cats, & it
is highly likely that someone might steal them!! Which is
true..But....

It is so much easier than telling them the real truth, which is that
my main fear is exactly that.. & also the fact that they are far more
likely to have yet another BB gun pointed @ them, & that humans are
far more likely to hurt or maim them, than any other threat out there.
It is a sad fact but also the truth.....

I honestly do feel that it is up to the slave concerned, to do the
right thing by their cat. We all live in different places, where the
threats to our cats are different.

I wouldn't dream of calling anyone names, or even shaking my head @
their stupidity, simply because I don't understand the threat posed to
their cats.
They know their cats, & they also know the threats that their cats
face too, so I would be wrong to call them an idiot because they don't
do things my way, or the way that I perceive to be right IMHO.....

Some might, ( & HAVE!!) said, "don't come crawling to me if your
cat"....
I'm certain that 99.999% of us do already take the best precautions
that we possibly can, to ensure that we never put our cats in that
position. I don't fear traffic, wildlife, or even dogs, but I do fear
other human beings...

I choose to allow my cats a bit of freedom, but only under my
supervision. I feel terribly guilty for taking away their liberty,
because some damned Idiot shot one of them. that is not their fault..
it was mine for being so trusting... therefore, I have decided that it
is up to me to make sure they do get @ least as bit of their freedom
back, a bit of real fresh air & natural stimulation, as well as the
cat pen if they simply want a bit of fresh air & bird watching....the
rest of it has to be on a pair of reins in pairs to the meadow where I
can see them & any threat they might face too

I know it is no where near the same liberty they used to have, but
that is the only way that I feel is safe enough for them...
I am sick and tired of people giving me strange looks when I try &
explain that I don't trust other people... but why do I feel that I
have to lie about it?
S;o)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

believe me, if inthe unlikely event that either of my furry
mistresses was run over (which would involve them getting up off the
sofa/bed/windowsill and being active for a change) i woudl not go
crawling to anyone for sympathy. it would be a great loss to me and
yes I would spend days crying my eyes out but It would not make me
keep any future cats under lock and key. all cats are different

On Jun 23, 8:21 pm, bookie wrote:
apart from getting gang-raped by a posse of outlaw
hedgehogs possibly, but that's about it in the British Isles

and you say I don't make much sense

looka here

you live in the boonies! you're country and don't even know it

haha