Fighting cats :( HELP!!!

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:51:22 GMT, BC wrote:

Margaret wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:30:57 GMT, BC wrote:
/snip/


You need to help them decide who is boss without too many injuries, by
pulling the apart you are stopping them from determining who is boss so
that they will definatly fight again next time they meet. They are doing
a natural thing by trying to determine who is head female.



Mm. My reading was that the OP's cat was already winning all the fights
("bullying", "terrorising") since the neighbor's cat is retreating under
the
neighbor's car (probably the core of her own territory, her last
sanctuary).
"Our cat is going over onto their drive. [....] It tends to go under
their
car but ours goes straight after her." Also he said it's getting worse,
iiuc.

Ime the 'boss' or 'head female' (alpha female) thing applies when cats
are
compelled to share a territory, or are part of the same family (fed by
the
same owner, etc). If there are two houses with driveways, the usual
thing
would be for each cat to have a separate territory.

It might be dominance ('head female') or it might be territory (much
more
common). If it is territory, then maybe the OP should observe whether
his
cat is trying to establish a reasonable boundary (somewhere between the
two
houses) or is trying to annex the neighbor cat's core territory (the
drive
and car area) or the whole next door yard (driving the neighbor cat away
altogether).

It would be much less likely ime for the OP's cat to want the neighbor's
cat
to remain in the OP's conquered territory as a subordinate (beta female
etc).

In any case, if the OP's cat is clearly winning all the fights but the
situation isn't winding down, then some intervention might be needed.

Definatly, my reasoning to thinking that they had not yet discovered who
was alpha female was because the OP's cat was still being injured,
something I would not expect to see if the other cat had given in.

Good point. But if it's territory rather than dominance, then the only way
the neighbor's cat could 'give in' when attacked in the core of her
territory (ie under her own car , would be to leave the neighborhood.

Suppose it is dominance and the OP's cat doesn't know when to stop, wouldn't
the other cat eventually defend herself? But I think the OP said his was
several years old and this problem hadn't come up before.


It was a very interesting OP but we could still do with more detail on
this one.

Oh, yes. Unfortunate that the OP is having internet problems as well.


We do not have any idea how the other cat is getting on etc.


Well, the OP indicated he'd talked to the neighbor, so if they aren't
concerned yet, maybe it is not too bad.


Or whether the house had a cat in previously.

Which house do you mean?


Like I said, personally
I would get some advice from my vet and keep my cat in till a new plan
of action was devised.


Certainly consult the vet. Hm, a longshot, but if the OP now uses the same
vet as the neighbor, perhaps the vet might remember the history of the
neighbor's cat and have some light to shed.


Margaret
-----------

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:05:17 +0000, jmc wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:58:52 +1300, all of a sudden, "Ashley"
exclaimed:


"Margaret" wrote in message
. ..

I'd look not just at how fast the cars drive on the road, but at how
necessary it is for the cats to cross the road or be dangerously close
to
it. Here's a photo of earth from space at night showing how much
variation there is in population density in the US.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001127.html


Now compare *anywhere* in the US to those two little islands at the
bottom
r/h corner (actually, they look like one, but we'll let you away with it
this time), and you'll see why I have no time for the indoor-only
fanatics
who don't understand the concept of environmental relevance.


What, New Zealand? Been there once (South island), loved it. Not
terribly densly populated, if that's what you're getting at. I'm not
an indoor-only fanatic, but I'll always keep my cats indoors as long
as I live in anything bigger than a village, or anyplace that has a
major road within a cat's normal territory range. Even if I lived in
NZ.


I don't see that conditions outside a cat's normal territory range are very
relevant, one way or another. Well, I suppose if the area outside that range
were terribly dangerous it would be a factor, as some odd event might send
her there.

I've lived in an old neighborhood with big yards on a major street. The cats
raised in this neighborhood didn't normally try to cross the street, they
established their territories in the other direction, sometimes annexing the
alley or vacant lots across the alley. I've watched a mother cat train her
kittens to stay well away from the street. Cats or kittens raised strictly
indoors or brought in from elsewhere might not be so streetwise, tho. :-(

As to the photo, NASA must have enhanced the contrast a bit. I've lived for
short times within one of those solid blobs of light at the lower left, ie
Los Angeles. I didn't have cats there, but there were plenty of
neighborhoods with big yards and trees where similar territories could be
established. (It's where Disney's movie "That Darn Cat" with Haley Mills was
flimed, I think.


My first cat, Mouse, was indoor until I moved to a farmhouse, then she
was whatever she chose - we didn't have a cat-flap but left a basement


So what did she choose? I've known a cat raised indoors till age 3 or so,
who used to come back indoors to use a litter box, eventually choose to
spend weeks outside (catching her own mice in the barn).


Once we move to our 50+ acres in Wyoming (with the nearest major road
on the other side of a river), any new cats can be outdoor or barn
cats if they choose. Meep will probably be too old to safely be an
outdoor cat (even if she'd want to be. In the winter she's an indoor
cat by choice.) after a decade of mostly-indoors, but we'll see.


My neighbor's cat, indoor till he got her, now has her own cat door but
often chooses to stay close to him, wherever he is.


Margaret S.
-----------

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:11:21 -0700, Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Hi, Margeret!

Just wanted to clarify my original post here. I'm not considering letting
Oscar outside at this point. Even if I felt the neighborhood was safe,
she's been an indoor cat for a long time, and I don't think she learns as
quickly as she did when she was a kitten. I'd be afraid I'd let her out and
never see her again.

I think my intention with this post was just to express that indoor vs.
outdoor is not a black and white matter ... you need to consider your
environment and your cat, weigh the risks and the benefits, and decide
accordingly.


Yes. Every cat is different, every neighborhood is different.

And cats make their own choices. I knew someone who moved to the country,
agonized about giving their cat outdoor access, finally put in a cat door
-- and the cat only went out quite rarely. For example when someone had had
diahrria in the litter box.


Margaret S.

Margaret wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:51:22 GMT, BC wrote:


Margaret wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:30:57 GMT, BC wrote:
/snip/



You need to help them decide who is boss without too many injuries, by
pulling the apart you are stopping them from determining who is boss so
that they will definatly fight again next time they meet. They are doing
a natural thing by trying to determine who is head female.



Mm. My reading was that the OP's cat was already winning all the fights
("bullying", "terrorising") since the neighbor's cat is retreating under

the

neighbor's car (probably the core of her own territory, her last

sanctuary).

"Our cat is going over onto their drive. [....] It tends to go under

their

car but ours goes straight after her." Also he said it's getting worse,
iiuc.

Ime the 'boss' or 'head female' (alpha female) thing applies when cats

are

compelled to share a territory, or are part of the same family (fed by

the

same owner, etc). If there are two houses with driveways, the usual

thing

would be for each cat to have a separate territory.

It might be dominance ('head female') or it might be territory (much

more

common). If it is territory, then maybe the OP should observe whether

his

cat is trying to establish a reasonable boundary (somewhere between the

two

houses) or is trying to annex the neighbor cat's core territory (the

drive

and car area) or the whole next door yard (driving the neighbor cat away
altogether).

It would be much less likely ime for the OP's cat to want the neighbor's

cat

to remain in the OP's conquered territory as a subordinate (beta female
etc).

In any case, if the OP's cat is clearly winning all the fights but the
situation isn't winding down, then some intervention might be needed.

Definatly, my reasoning to thinking that they had not yet discovered who
was alpha female was because the OP's cat was still being injured,
something I would not expect to see if the other cat had given in.


Good point. But if it's territory rather than dominance, then the only way
the neighbor's cat could 'give in' when attacked in the core of her
territory (ie under her own car , would be to leave the neighborhood.

Suppose it is dominance and the OP's cat doesn't know when to stop, wouldn't
the other cat eventually defend herself? But I think the OP said his was
several years old and this problem hadn't come up before.

I had read that their cat had had a couple of fights in the past which
had sorted themselves out. The post(according to my stupid computer, so
probably wrong) was on the 15th jan in the afternoon.



It was a very interesting OP but we could still do with more detail on
this one.


Oh, yes. Unfortunate that the OP is having internet problems as well.



We do not have any idea how the other cat is getting on etc.



Well, the OP indicated he'd talked to the neighbor, so if they aren't
concerned yet, maybe it is not too bad.

thats what I was thinking, either that or they dont care!


Or whether the house had a cat in previously.


Which house do you mean?

Sorry, the house which they have moved into. Was wondering whether there
was another cat there before they moved in.



Like I said, personally
I would get some advice from my vet and keep my cat in till a new plan
of action was devised.



Certainly consult the vet. Hm, a longshot, but if the OP now uses the same
vet as the neighbor, perhaps the vet might remember the history of the
neighbor's cat and have some light to shed.
Quite possible :-)


Margaret
-----------


--
Badger Badger Badger

Coyotes do prey on cats and sometimes dogs. They are very opportunistic
predators. I live in fairly developed area so there are no coyotes right
where I live but there are plenty of them in areas not far from me. I'm
an advocate of indoor only cats -- they live longer, live healthier, and
are perfectly happy.

--
Catwalker
aka Pu$$y Feet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chauncey, Silver Tabby Persion
Bubba, Black & White Short Hair
Bandit, Seal Point Himalayan
Midge, Grey & White Medium Hair
Chigger, Seal Point Siamese mix
Killer, Beta