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Before commercial cat food.....



 
 
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  #671  
Old October 15th 03, 12:59 AM
Liz
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"Philip ®" wrote in message
Interesting observation. I have heard this truth about med students
for over 25 yrs. To this, you can add dentists as having the highest
mortality rate of all accomplished physicians. Average life
expectancy is 57 yrs. Could it be all those foul misaligned teeth or
... is there something about looking in people's nostrils that does
'em in? ;-)


I heard that from my dentist. I wonder what are their most frequent
causes of death... ?
  #672  
Old October 15th 03, 07:16 AM
-L.
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(Liz) wrote in message . com...
And which pathogenic microorganisms are these?


Hundreds of thousands of species.


Exactly. And they are literally everywhere. The equation pathogen +
host = disease is hardly ever true.


Hardly being the operative word. All it takes is one insert organism
of choice. And if your immune system is compromised because of some
other reason, or even if not, it very easily could be fatal.

If it were true more often than
not, life would not have evolved past the first parasite. I suppose
you still haven´t had immunology.


You would suppose wrong, then.

That equation is not a simple one.
There are many variables you have to consider regarding the pathogen
(e.g., virulence) and a truckload of variables regarding the host.


And yet you are willing to play Russian roulette with yourself and
your animals. Carry on. Natural selection, AFAIC...


I didn't say I advocated eating STERILE food, just that eating RAW
meat isn't really the smartest idea in the world. You wanna
experiment on your animals, go ahead. No skin off my teeth.


I have been giving raw to my animals for 25 years, never had a
problem.


Yet.

I eat raw meat myself and never had a problem. Did you ever
try Carpaccio or Sushi?


Nope, never would.

I guess not.. Besides, I like my steak very
rare.


A good dose of E. coli O157:H7, or a little enteric B. cereus, will
cure you of that...

Now guess how many times I had food poisoning in my life? Never
did. Perhaps you should try to meet someone who had food poisoning and
ask how it happened. IMO, most cases are related to eating out. So I
believe it would be wiser for you to never eat out again than to avoid
raw.


I don't eat out, if I can help it.


If you are going to get paranoid about everything you learn in vet
school, you´re better off taking business administration or
accounting.


I'm not in vet school, so you're wrong again. Fool.

Students of medicine have the highest suicide rate among
all college students. I wonder where veterinary students stand in that
rating. Maybe it´s just not for you.


Obviously it isn't because I'm not in vet school, and never have been.

-L.
  #673  
Old October 15th 03, 07:16 AM
-L.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Liz) wrote in message . com...
And which pathogenic microorganisms are these?


Hundreds of thousands of species.


Exactly. And they are literally everywhere. The equation pathogen +
host = disease is hardly ever true.


Hardly being the operative word. All it takes is one insert organism
of choice. And if your immune system is compromised because of some
other reason, or even if not, it very easily could be fatal.

If it were true more often than
not, life would not have evolved past the first parasite. I suppose
you still haven´t had immunology.


You would suppose wrong, then.

That equation is not a simple one.
There are many variables you have to consider regarding the pathogen
(e.g., virulence) and a truckload of variables regarding the host.


And yet you are willing to play Russian roulette with yourself and
your animals. Carry on. Natural selection, AFAIC...


I didn't say I advocated eating STERILE food, just that eating RAW
meat isn't really the smartest idea in the world. You wanna
experiment on your animals, go ahead. No skin off my teeth.


I have been giving raw to my animals for 25 years, never had a
problem.


Yet.

I eat raw meat myself and never had a problem. Did you ever
try Carpaccio or Sushi?


Nope, never would.

I guess not.. Besides, I like my steak very
rare.


A good dose of E. coli O157:H7, or a little enteric B. cereus, will
cure you of that...

Now guess how many times I had food poisoning in my life? Never
did. Perhaps you should try to meet someone who had food poisoning and
ask how it happened. IMO, most cases are related to eating out. So I
believe it would be wiser for you to never eat out again than to avoid
raw.


I don't eat out, if I can help it.


If you are going to get paranoid about everything you learn in vet
school, you´re better off taking business administration or
accounting.


I'm not in vet school, so you're wrong again. Fool.

Students of medicine have the highest suicide rate among
all college students. I wonder where veterinary students stand in that
rating. Maybe it´s just not for you.


Obviously it isn't because I'm not in vet school, and never have been.

-L.
  #674  
Old October 15th 03, 03:36 PM
PawsForThought
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Posts: n/a
Default

From: (-L.)

(Liz) wrote in message


Exactly. And they are literally everywhere. The equation pathogen +
host = disease is hardly ever true.


Hardly being the operative word. All it takes is one insert organism
of choice. And if your immune system is compromised because of some
other reason, or even if not, it very easily could be fatal.


Absolutely and maybe you shouldn't eat fruits or vegetables either. Any food
can contain bacteria and toxins.

That equation is not a simple one.
There are many variables you have to consider regarding the pathogen
(e.g., virulence) and a truckload of variables regarding the host.


And yet you are willing to play Russian roulette with yourself and
your animals. Carry on. Natural selection, AFAIC...


I didn't say I advocated eating STERILE food, just that eating RAW
meat isn't really the smartest idea in the world. You wanna
experiment on your animals, go ahead. No skin off my teeth.


I have been giving raw to my animals for 25 years, never had a
problem.


Yet.


I think 25 years of feeding a raw diet is damn good indication that the person
doing it knows how to safely handle and prepare raw food.

I guess not.. Besides, I like my steak very
rare.


A good dose of E. coli O157:H7, or a little enteric B. cereus, will
cure you of that...


Do you cook all your fruits and vegetables? You can get E coli from them too.
Most cases of E coli I hear about are from foods eaten in restaurants where
safe handling/storage are not always practiced.

Cats are not humans and they are carnivores meant to eat raw meat. Their
digestive tracts are much shorter than ours and more acidic. You can learn
more he
http://www.holisticat.com/rawdiet.html

I certainly wouldn't recommend a raw diet to anyone who didn't want to feed one
or who are afraid. But in my own cats I have seen great benefits and I feel
it's worth it. I used to be like you, scared of raw meat for my cats. Pet food
companies advised against raw meat (but of course they would) and vets did too
because they had no experience with raw diets, and the ones I came across had
learned what they knew about feline nutrition from brochures from pet food
companies or from pet food company reps. After my last cat died from CRF and
IBD where she always was throwing up her food, no matter what brand I fed, I
started researching a natural diet. I found a vet who had many years of
experience feeding raw diets to cats. I feel in my case it has been well worth
it. I also belong to a list of over 1,000 members. I can't think it's just
coincidence when so many people who have switched their cats to a raw diet see
improvement in health and medical problems.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
  #675  
Old October 15th 03, 03:36 PM
PawsForThought
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

From: (-L.)

(Liz) wrote in message


Exactly. And they are literally everywhere. The equation pathogen +
host = disease is hardly ever true.


Hardly being the operative word. All it takes is one insert organism
of choice. And if your immune system is compromised because of some
other reason, or even if not, it very easily could be fatal.


Absolutely and maybe you shouldn't eat fruits or vegetables either. Any food
can contain bacteria and toxins.

That equation is not a simple one.
There are many variables you have to consider regarding the pathogen
(e.g., virulence) and a truckload of variables regarding the host.


And yet you are willing to play Russian roulette with yourself and
your animals. Carry on. Natural selection, AFAIC...


I didn't say I advocated eating STERILE food, just that eating RAW
meat isn't really the smartest idea in the world. You wanna
experiment on your animals, go ahead. No skin off my teeth.


I have been giving raw to my animals for 25 years, never had a
problem.


Yet.


I think 25 years of feeding a raw diet is damn good indication that the person
doing it knows how to safely handle and prepare raw food.

I guess not.. Besides, I like my steak very
rare.


A good dose of E. coli O157:H7, or a little enteric B. cereus, will
cure you of that...


Do you cook all your fruits and vegetables? You can get E coli from them too.
Most cases of E coli I hear about are from foods eaten in restaurants where
safe handling/storage are not always practiced.

Cats are not humans and they are carnivores meant to eat raw meat. Their
digestive tracts are much shorter than ours and more acidic. You can learn
more he
http://www.holisticat.com/rawdiet.html

I certainly wouldn't recommend a raw diet to anyone who didn't want to feed one
or who are afraid. But in my own cats I have seen great benefits and I feel
it's worth it. I used to be like you, scared of raw meat for my cats. Pet food
companies advised against raw meat (but of course they would) and vets did too
because they had no experience with raw diets, and the ones I came across had
learned what they knew about feline nutrition from brochures from pet food
companies or from pet food company reps. After my last cat died from CRF and
IBD where she always was throwing up her food, no matter what brand I fed, I
started researching a natural diet. I found a vet who had many years of
experience feeding raw diets to cats. I feel in my case it has been well worth
it. I also belong to a list of over 1,000 members. I can't think it's just
coincidence when so many people who have switched their cats to a raw diet see
improvement in health and medical problems.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
  #676  
Old October 15th 03, 04:10 PM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hardly being the operative word. All it takes is one insert organism
of choice. And if your immune system is compromised because of some
other reason, or even if not, it very easily could be fatal.
If it were true more often than
not, life would not have evolved past the first parasite. I suppose
you still haven´t had immunology.


You would suppose wrong, then.

That equation is not a simple one.
There are many variables you have to consider regarding the pathogen
(e.g., virulence) and a truckload of variables regarding the host.


And yet you are willing to play Russian roulette with yourself and
your animals. Carry on. Natural selection, AFAIC...
I didn't say I advocated eating STERILE food, just that eating RAW
meat isn't really the smartest idea in the world. You wanna
experiment on your animals, go ahead. No skin off my teeth.


Read what you wrote. You´re contradicting yourself. If you say that
*one* pathogen could cause disease and be fatal and that you do not
sterilize your food, how is it that you protect yourself from food
poisoning?

A good dose of E. coli O157:H7, or a little enteric B. cereus, will
cure you of that...


First is *one*. Then comes *a good dose*. There´s a world more to
immunology than the little you were taught. Go to a poor country and
you´ll start asking yourself *how* can some people survive eating from
the gutters, trash cans, and city dumps year after year. And you think
these people have access to hospital if they get sick? Haha. If you
were right, there wouldn´t be one poor person in this world. They´d
all be dead by now. In India they throw their gutters in the Ganges
river, they throw their dead in the Ganges, and they take their
"purification" bath in the Ganges. Many get sick from their bath and
many don´t, adults and children alike. How do you explain that? And
don´t forget we are talking about a moving liquid media where
pathogens spread quickly.

I'm not in vet school, so you're wrong again. Fool.


I thought you wanted to become a vet and were at it by now. I guess I
picked that up in one of your posts. Either way, you need to get your
facts straight.
  #677  
Old October 15th 03, 04:10 PM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hardly being the operative word. All it takes is one insert organism
of choice. And if your immune system is compromised because of some
other reason, or even if not, it very easily could be fatal.
If it were true more often than
not, life would not have evolved past the first parasite. I suppose
you still haven´t had immunology.


You would suppose wrong, then.

That equation is not a simple one.
There are many variables you have to consider regarding the pathogen
(e.g., virulence) and a truckload of variables regarding the host.


And yet you are willing to play Russian roulette with yourself and
your animals. Carry on. Natural selection, AFAIC...
I didn't say I advocated eating STERILE food, just that eating RAW
meat isn't really the smartest idea in the world. You wanna
experiment on your animals, go ahead. No skin off my teeth.


Read what you wrote. You´re contradicting yourself. If you say that
*one* pathogen could cause disease and be fatal and that you do not
sterilize your food, how is it that you protect yourself from food
poisoning?

A good dose of E. coli O157:H7, or a little enteric B. cereus, will
cure you of that...


First is *one*. Then comes *a good dose*. There´s a world more to
immunology than the little you were taught. Go to a poor country and
you´ll start asking yourself *how* can some people survive eating from
the gutters, trash cans, and city dumps year after year. And you think
these people have access to hospital if they get sick? Haha. If you
were right, there wouldn´t be one poor person in this world. They´d
all be dead by now. In India they throw their gutters in the Ganges
river, they throw their dead in the Ganges, and they take their
"purification" bath in the Ganges. Many get sick from their bath and
many don´t, adults and children alike. How do you explain that? And
don´t forget we are talking about a moving liquid media where
pathogens spread quickly.

I'm not in vet school, so you're wrong again. Fool.


I thought you wanted to become a vet and were at it by now. I guess I
picked that up in one of your posts. Either way, you need to get your
facts straight.
  #678  
Old October 15th 03, 06:53 PM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A great site to visit:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss4901a1.htm

It shows food poisoning outbreaks by state, by where food was eaten,
by what kind of food was eaten, etc. Very interesting indeed.

Then, in another site, I confirmed what I already knew: 90% of all
North Americans are malnourished. How can one fight disease if one is
malnourished?

http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates...Article&ID=518

Coincidentally, cancer *is* the number one killer of cats in the USA
according to Steve Crane. IMO, a cat without any raw in its diet *is*
a malnourished cat.
  #679  
Old October 15th 03, 06:53 PM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A great site to visit:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss4901a1.htm

It shows food poisoning outbreaks by state, by where food was eaten,
by what kind of food was eaten, etc. Very interesting indeed.

Then, in another site, I confirmed what I already knew: 90% of all
North Americans are malnourished. How can one fight disease if one is
malnourished?

http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates...Article&ID=518

Coincidentally, cancer *is* the number one killer of cats in the USA
according to Steve Crane. IMO, a cat without any raw in its diet *is*
a malnourished cat.
  #680  
Old October 15th 03, 08:40 PM
Liz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yes, I've seen a lot of people with sick animals post in this newsgroup, and
unfortunately quite a few seem too young to have these diseases. As to 20+
year old cats, we have some in my raw diet group. These are cats that have
been on a raw diet long term.

Lauren


I was looking up posts of people who mention cats older than 20 and
found this:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was watching Guiness Book of World Records show on TV last night.
(okay, I admit I got sucked in by the preview of a man squirting milk
from his eye) They had a segment on a cat named Grandpa that was
reported to be 34 yo when he died. He said that the kitty liked to
drink coffee and eat eggs and bacon for breakfast. The guy that
Grandpa owned even had a little funeral for him, make shift casket and
all and he had video of the other cats going up to Grandpa and paying
their respects. I don't know the breed of the cat but it was of a
hairless variety. Wow is all I can say, I can't imagine having Dusty
around for 34 years. This guy had like 20 cats I think and he has one
now that just celebrated her 29th birthday. (cake with a candle and
all!) Did anyone else see this or was I in a TV induced stupor after
seeing milk shoot out of a mans eye, or make that 2 men, he had a
challenger!?

Nope, it was real!
That 29 year old cat sure looked good! I've seen aged cats before and
they don't usually look that healthy.
The show said that Grampa was a hairless Rex, but I think he may
actually be a Sphinx.
Deb
------------------------------------------------------------------

Eggs, bacon and coffee for breakfast and lived to be 34 years old...
And it seems this record was not yet broken. And the same guy has
another one who just turned 29. I suppose he also feeds this one eggs,
bacon and coffee for breakfast. Makes you think, doesn´t it?
 




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