{OT} Antidepressant Issues

On 2005-03-09, Karen penned:

Well, I'll tell you what. I work below a doctor's office, and EVERY (every
single solitary) day, I watch pharmaceutical reps tote in expensive (and I
do mean from the BEST places in town) lunches for everyone. It is absolutely
*revolting* to see this kind of "bribing" taking place every day. And you
should see the vehicles the reps arrive in. No matter how much
pharmaceutical companies cry "but it is SOOOOO expensive to research these
very necessary drugs" whenever ever drug prices are brought up, I don't
believe it. I believe their marketing budget far outweighs their research.
And how many pens and chairs (I kid you not, I saw two stadium chairs
stamped with a huge Nexium logo woven right in at a garage sale this summer)
and note pads do you see lying around? Makes me just want to urp.

My SIL worked as a biologist for a major pharmaceutical company and said
basically the same thing.

--
monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn't
in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of
thing until just now. I feel like I've gotten suckered into this
situation, and that ****es me off.

--Enfilade

I was on Effexor for about three years, and went off it for much the
same reasons you mentioned. I've been off antidepresants for a couple
years now, but it's getting to be time to start again. Going to have to
visit the doc to get a prescription for something other than Effexor.

If you do it carefully, with the doc monitoring you closely, I'd sure
think it ought to be possible to wean yourself off the Effexor until you
can start with something else. Of course if you don't have health
insurance the "close monitoring" thing might be a problem too.

We'll be sending our best purrs that you are able to find a way to make
the transition off of Effexor.

If you do it carefully, with the doc monitoring you closely, I'd sure
think it ought to be possible to wean yourself off the Effexor until you
can start with something else. Of course if you don't have health
insurance the "close monitoring" thing might be a problem too.

We'll be sending our best purrs that you are able to find a way to make
the transition off of Effexor.

Howdy folks!

Thanks for all your comments. I really appreciate it.

"Close monitoring' is easy for me because DP is a medical student.
Also, in Canada, visiting the doctor is free. The only thing I have
to pay for is the pills.

Now, with DP being a medical student, he and I have gone 'round on
this one...while he thinks I should be on /something/, he also is
willing to live by my decision, if a bit nervously. At first he
insisted that Effexor couldn't possibly make me sleepy because his
medical journals say it causes insomnia; however, today he met up with
a neurophysician friend, who said that there are instances of that
side effect on record, so NA NAAAA *sticks out tongue* *Serves you
right to believe the studies instead of me PPPPPPTHHH!!!*

*ahem*

As for side effects, once in a snowstorm I did without for three days
and aside from a bit of dizziness (I've had far worse from the flu) I
was fine. What I don't like is, the doc says the stuff isn't
addictive, and yet if I'm not supposed to go off it EVER, I might as
/well/ be addicted.

What am I on it for? Well, for the most part, I have my stuff pretty
well together. For 25 years I'd hit "lows", which never lasted more
than about 6 hours. I'd spend those days in my room, watching videos
if I could concentrate and lying around if I couldn't, waiting for the
"weather to pass." I could handle this.

My first bad time hit when I started feeling abandoned by my friends,
broke up with my boyfriend, had health issues, my grades slipped a
bit, and I and got kicked out of the house by my mom for taking a
spare to address the grades thing. I was living on people's couches
and/or the public airport, and wanted a lot of support from my friends
that they didn't or couldnt or didn't know to give (I'm an independent
SOB who didn't know how to ask for help, so it wasn't entirely their
fault.) I was 17, had done all I wanted to do in my life, and didn't
know how I was going to keep myself fed and sheltered until I got to
university, or if it wasn't maybe ready for me to call my life
"finished" since I'd met all my goals.

My more recent one involved 7 months of looking for work when my EI
ran out and I took a job at the mall. Another 2 months with a jealous
co-worker actively trying to get me fired, a position that involved
coercive selling despite what I was told at my interview, more
unsuccessful job interviews, and me with a master's degree going
apesh!t from boredom, while DPs life was at its high point and he was
celebrating being here in this city while I wanted to grab my duffel
bag and go back to living in cars and airports if it'd get me out of
here.

It takes some pretty bad sh!t to set me off...so while I /am/ a
little, er, short-fused at those times, normal life doesn't evoke
depression in me. I'm hopefully in a master's program full time next
year--academia is a stabilizing lifestyle for me. Better to do
another master's than end up in the nutty house. Anyway, I think my
life will be pretty stable then--DP is such a calming influence on me.
Sometimes I feel like he's my nurse. Of course, on his part, he
sometimes tends to be quite naive and carefree/careless, and needs me
watching his back. "Just because YOU wouldn't steal a car doesn't
mean someone else wouldn't...so LOCK THE CAR."

--Fil

"Connie" wrote:

Hi Enfilade,

Effexor is a big time drug to be on for depression - it is usually used
for
major depression and even some psychotic disorders. I understand that you
want off of the medication because you feel good now - but remember, that
is
the medication helping you to feel better and control your depression. If
you are wanting to try something that won't turn you into a zombie, ask
your
doctor about weaning off of it, while being started on something else. If
you are taken off of medication completely and you begin to relapse, you
could spiral downward before a new drug takes effect (anti-depressants
usually take 3-4 weeks before full effect is reached). The consequesnces
of
that far outweight the benefits of being "drug-free." Also, a relapse is
usually worse once being taken off of a medication because of the major
changes in the chemicals in your brain...

Please be careful :-) I know there is a stigma attached to being on
medication for depression, but it is an illness.... Really think of the
benefits of the medication vesus the possible results of being off of the
medication. Talk to your doc first about switching to a different kind,
one
that still helps your symptoms, but with less side effects. Good luck :-)



This is wonderful advice, judging from my experience with clinically'
depressed loved ones. Have your doctor help you find a drug that
does not interefere with your quality of life--but remember that
depression kills. It is a terrible, debilitating disease.

"Kreisleriana" wrote :

I have to second this. These days with managed care, a lot of
antidepressants are prescribed by general physicians who frankly don't
have the right pharmocological background.

Yes. And they are prescribing them to people without clinical
illness, in many cases. Sometimes I think half the people on
antidepressants are not clinically depressed, they just want
to "feel better." I think this is dangerous.

I've been very lucky-- in
a sense-- because my depressions have always been under a
psychiatrist's treatment. I'm not saying this is true of everyone,
but with my history, and my genetics, I have a very strong inclination
towards depression. I would no more try to "tough" out a depression
without medication than I would refuse insulin if I were diabetic.

I have had the experience of withdrawing off a very tough drug
(nardil), and while I never hope to repeat such a thing, it was
incredibly important that I do it. I am now stable on a low dose of
Wellbutrin, which seems to have little/no side effects for me.



Wellbutrin has been a wonder drug for a friend of mine.
So few side effects for her.

"Mary" wrote in message
news:1110480806.fc03d81ee3af0268d18dcafdcc421a09@t eranews...

"Connie" wrote:

Hi Enfilade,

Effexor is a big time drug to be on for depression - it is usually used
for
major depression and even some psychotic disorders. I understand that
you
want off of the medication because you feel good now - but remember, that
is
the medication helping you to feel better and control your depression. If
you are wanting to try something that won't turn you into a zombie, ask
your
doctor about weaning off of it, while being started on something else. If
you are taken off of medication completely and you begin to relapse, you
could spiral downward before a new drug takes effect (anti-depressants
usually take 3-4 weeks before full effect is reached). The consequesnces
of
that far outweight the benefits of being "drug-free." Also, a relapse is
usually worse once being taken off of a medication because of the major
changes in the chemicals in your brain...

Please be careful :-) I know there is a stigma attached to being on
medication for depression, but it is an illness.... Really think of the
benefits of the medication vesus the possible results of being off of the
medication. Talk to your doc first about switching to a different kind,
one
that still helps your symptoms, but with less side effects. Good luck :-)



This is wonderful advice, judging from my experience with clinically'
depressed loved ones. Have your doctor help you find a drug that
does not interefere with your quality of life--but remember that
depression kills. It is a terrible, debilitating disease.



I would say AMEN to that. I used to think it must mean you feel sad all the
time, which isn't very nice, but I have to say and emphasise that I had
absolutely no idea what it could be like until I got it.
It is the worst illness I have ever had. I totally understand why people
kill themselves when they have it. It's completely disabling.
I would rather have 10 eye operations (I've had 6 so I can say this..) than
have another bout of clinical depression.
Imagine that you cannot be bothered to get yourself a meal, even though
you're hungry. So you don't.
Neither can you be bothered to have a bath, or wash your hair, or get
undressed for bed at night and it doesn't seem to matter. It's no good at
all "giving yourself a strict talking-to" it makes no difference.
Decisions are impossible. Faced with only two choices, you can't decide
which. Driving is difficult as you cannot decide, at a busy junction, when
it's safe to emerge. You realise this as the traffic builds up behind, but
it's the only way to get to the supermarket.

When you get in the supermarket, although you know what you want, somehow
it's not possible to sequence things in the right order.
Now normally, without depression, I go to the supermarket, know exactly what
I want, and go round the aisles in the right order to get it.
I could not do this! I wandered around for 2 hours hoping I would spot
something I needed.
I phoned a friend who is a mental health social worker. I sobbed and asked
her if she thought I was completely mad or something.
She came round and we talked. Everything was caused by depression, she
promised. She was quite right.

I am 7/8th recovered. I can work and my driving is okay now. I am good in
the supermarket. I can multi-task at work. I bath and wash my hair
regularly.
Even so, I know I am not quite as before.
Big hugs to anyone on the group who has the big D, it is a life-changing
experience and one I would not wish on my worst enemy.

Tweed

"Mary" wrote in message
news:1110481014.19bf617981e35a9416dbc9b8311c7928@t eranews...

Wellbutrin has been a wonder drug for a friend of mine.
So few side effects for her.

I would recommend that one too. No sexual or other side effects - *AND* it
will help you diet and quit smoking (it helps with impulse control).

Hugs,

CatNipped

In article , "CatNipped"
wrote:

"Mary" wrote in message
news:1110481014.19bf617981e35a9416dbc9b8311c7928@t eranews...

Wellbutrin has been a wonder drug for a friend of mine.
So few side effects for her.

I would recommend that one too. No sexual or other side effects - *AND*
it
will help you diet and quit smoking (it helps with impulse control).

Again, no drug is completely safe, although this is one of the good
ones. Any antidepressant can have sexual side effects. Welbutrin/Zyban
(same drug) is especially safe in cardiac patients, but needs to be used
in caution with anyone with a history of seizures.

In Australia (don't know whether things are different in the USA) hardly
anyone would be able to get their antidepressants prescribed by a
psychiatrist - there are just so few of them that even if you're able to
pay privately, the waiting list for an appointment will be months long.
You really have to be so ill that you're a danger to other people (a
danger to yourself isn't enough) to be able to see a psychiatrist
quickly. So, most people have to go to a GP to get a prescription, and I
guess the shared experience of specialist psychiatrists on choosing an
antidepressant isn't reaching them. Then again, the shrinks are probably
too darned overworked to publish what they know...



Quite frankly, then, I'll put in a suggestion to the Australian medical
authorities that they might do well to use computer assistance from one
of my research areas: expert systems for prescribing. While my work has
more been in cardiology and infectious disease, it's quite possible to
construct a "consultant in a box" that can help a primary physician
select drugs and find alternatives.


I can only say as a patient that such a thing sounds incredibly useful
and worthwhile; I wish I'd been recommended the right medication for me
years earlier. And, since almost all medicines in Australia are
state-subsidised through the national pharmaceutical benefits scheme,
those making the decisions in Canberra ought to be very interested too.
Also, recent changes to how PBS data collections can be used in research
should make it relatively easy to evaluate any effects on prescribing
practices on a large scale - I'd think it would be possible to
demonstrate clear cost savings and keep the bureaucrats happy as well as
the patients. I say bring it on... that's one opinion out of 20 million
or so anyway.

Woe, *after* reading all you guys (& gals) probs with Effexor, THIS story
shows up on the news:

http://www.theindychannel.com/health...14/detail.html


Enfilade wrote:
This is my first vent here...

I want to get off the Effexor I've been taking for depression for
almost a year now. I've been more stable than DP's seen me to be in
the past 8 years, in the last 6 months. Unfortunately, in those last
6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get
this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble
thinking of words or figuring out just where I am...I'll wander and
then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the
time went.

The stuff's expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there's no
way I can do a master's thesis in September if I'm sleeping more than
I'm awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the
drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft.

So today I'm at the doctor's and he tells me that if I quit the stuff,
I'm almost guaranteed to relapse.

DP's afraid I will, sometime when no one's around to stop me from
cutting my throat--or someone else's.

I'm in my 20s. I don't want to be on this crap for the rest of my
life. Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big
reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to
people around me as well as myself. I think I know the symptoms well
enough--if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life
through a red rage haze, it's time to go back on the pills. I was
depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I
only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8
years apart. The minor rounds I could handle without chemical
interference. At that rate, it'd be 2013 before I needed pills again.
That's a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years.

That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn't
in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of
thing until just now. I feel like I've gotten suckered into this
situation, and that ****es me off.

--Enfilade



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