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  #151  
Old March 2nd 04, 01:08 AM
Jacqueline
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:38:40 +0000, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:
If you weren't so closed-minded you might actually learn
something. Instead of insulting me you could actually try and have a
conversation and learn something about my experiences.


I'm not interested in the experiences of a liar and troll.


But I am neither so my opinion and experiences are valid.

But no, you'd
rather dismiss something you disagree with out of hand and that's
that.


When you are so far wide of reality you get dismissed.


Well, so it seems in your case, nobody's taking you seriously.

You know nothing about me or my work, yet you take it upon
yourself to make assumptions and cast aspersions on the validity of my
argument. Sorry, but it's obvious who's the: "lying troll like you on
usenet."


Please feel free to come back when you are prepared to tell the truth.


What you mean is, "please feel free to come back when you agree with
everything I say". You really are bizarre.
  #152  
Old March 2nd 04, 03:36 PM
Bob Brenchley.
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Default

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 00:08:21 +0000, Jacqueline
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:38:40 +0000, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:
If you weren't so closed-minded you might actually learn
something. Instead of insulting me you could actually try and have a
conversation and learn something about my experiences.


I'm not interested in the experiences of a liar and troll.


But I am neither so my opinion and experiences are valid.


You are one or the other, or possibly both.

But no, you'd
rather dismiss something you disagree with out of hand and that's
that.


When you are so far wide of reality you get dismissed.


Well, so it seems in your case, nobody's taking you seriously.

You know nothing about me or my work, yet you take it upon
yourself to make assumptions and cast aspersions on the validity of my
argument. Sorry, but it's obvious who's the: "lying troll like you on
usenet."


Please feel free to come back when you are prepared to tell the truth.


What you mean is, "please feel free to come back when you agree with
everything I say". You really are bizarre.


Feel free to come back when you stop lying about the work of a much
respected organization like Cats Protection.

--
Bob.

I guess you just get lost in thought sometimes. It being such
unfamiliar territory to you.
  #153  
Old March 2nd 04, 03:36 PM
Bob Brenchley.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 00:08:21 +0000, Jacqueline
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:38:40 +0000, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:
If you weren't so closed-minded you might actually learn
something. Instead of insulting me you could actually try and have a
conversation and learn something about my experiences.


I'm not interested in the experiences of a liar and troll.


But I am neither so my opinion and experiences are valid.


You are one or the other, or possibly both.

But no, you'd
rather dismiss something you disagree with out of hand and that's
that.


When you are so far wide of reality you get dismissed.


Well, so it seems in your case, nobody's taking you seriously.

You know nothing about me or my work, yet you take it upon
yourself to make assumptions and cast aspersions on the validity of my
argument. Sorry, but it's obvious who's the: "lying troll like you on
usenet."


Please feel free to come back when you are prepared to tell the truth.


What you mean is, "please feel free to come back when you agree with
everything I say". You really are bizarre.


Feel free to come back when you stop lying about the work of a much
respected organization like Cats Protection.

--
Bob.

I guess you just get lost in thought sometimes. It being such
unfamiliar territory to you.
  #154  
Old March 2nd 04, 03:55 PM
Bob Brenchley.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:37:18 +0000, Gwenhwyfaer de Tierveil
wrote:

Quoth Bob Brenchley.:
There we are. A clear offer of evidence refused.


There is no evidence needed, she has already proved herself a liar and
a troll.


No she hasn't. Giving you an impression is not the same thing as
proving.


In your opinion.

No, Bob, it doesn't work like that. When someone very clearly has a
quite different opinion and experience than you, it verges on the
sociopathic to just start calling them a liar.


When someone claims something you know to be untrue it is quite normal
to call them a liar.


When they offer evidence to back up their position it's quite normal to
retreat from such a dogmatic position and consider that evidence.


Sorry, but when you know the facts as well as I do then there is no
retreat needed.

Saying "that's not my
experience" is perfectly acceptable, because it allows for the
difference - saying "you're a liar" without a full investigation only
demonstrates that you regard any experience differing from your own
as non-existent,


In this case it is. She was given ample opportunity to back out of the
hole she was digging, but eventually you just have to fill it in.


No she wasn't - you refused her every offer to back up her statements.


She was given ample opportunity to back out of the hole she was
digging, she insisted on keeping up the digging rather than take any
of the outs that were offered.

I can state, for the record, the fact that none of the UK's major
shelters (RSPCA, Cats Protection and Battersea) nor most of the
smaller ones that for various reasons affiliate with the big boys,
will normally rehome a healthy cat to an indoor only environment. This
has been confirmed on numerous occasions by people who work at the
grass roots level - actually finding homes for cats.


Put yourself in my shoes. I see person A shouting the same thing over
and over, whilst refusing to offer evidence for his assertions, or
consider evidence anyone else may put forward for theirs. I see
person B reasonably pointing out that her experience is different and
making an offer of evidence to back up her assertions. I don't know
either person, so I have no evidence as to either person's general
trustworthiness.


I see person A stating the facts, facts that have been backed up by
those that work at the hard end of cat care in the UK.

I see person B starting to troll, being called out, and being unable
to produce evidence because no such evidence can exist. She is welcome
to spout her "experiences" but I know in advance there is little
chance she will start telling the truth as she is now too deep in that
hole of hers.

Confronted with that situation, who would you be more likely to take
seriously? Why?


Frankly, I always go for the facts.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.
  #155  
Old March 2nd 04, 03:55 PM
Bob Brenchley.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:37:18 +0000, Gwenhwyfaer de Tierveil
wrote:

Quoth Bob Brenchley.:
There we are. A clear offer of evidence refused.


There is no evidence needed, she has already proved herself a liar and
a troll.


No she hasn't. Giving you an impression is not the same thing as
proving.


In your opinion.

No, Bob, it doesn't work like that. When someone very clearly has a
quite different opinion and experience than you, it verges on the
sociopathic to just start calling them a liar.


When someone claims something you know to be untrue it is quite normal
to call them a liar.


When they offer evidence to back up their position it's quite normal to
retreat from such a dogmatic position and consider that evidence.


Sorry, but when you know the facts as well as I do then there is no
retreat needed.

Saying "that's not my
experience" is perfectly acceptable, because it allows for the
difference - saying "you're a liar" without a full investigation only
demonstrates that you regard any experience differing from your own
as non-existent,


In this case it is. She was given ample opportunity to back out of the
hole she was digging, but eventually you just have to fill it in.


No she wasn't - you refused her every offer to back up her statements.


She was given ample opportunity to back out of the hole she was
digging, she insisted on keeping up the digging rather than take any
of the outs that were offered.

I can state, for the record, the fact that none of the UK's major
shelters (RSPCA, Cats Protection and Battersea) nor most of the
smaller ones that for various reasons affiliate with the big boys,
will normally rehome a healthy cat to an indoor only environment. This
has been confirmed on numerous occasions by people who work at the
grass roots level - actually finding homes for cats.


Put yourself in my shoes. I see person A shouting the same thing over
and over, whilst refusing to offer evidence for his assertions, or
consider evidence anyone else may put forward for theirs. I see
person B reasonably pointing out that her experience is different and
making an offer of evidence to back up her assertions. I don't know
either person, so I have no evidence as to either person's general
trustworthiness.


I see person A stating the facts, facts that have been backed up by
those that work at the hard end of cat care in the UK.

I see person B starting to troll, being called out, and being unable
to produce evidence because no such evidence can exist. She is welcome
to spout her "experiences" but I know in advance there is little
chance she will start telling the truth as she is now too deep in that
hole of hers.

Confronted with that situation, who would you be more likely to take
seriously? Why?


Frankly, I always go for the facts.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.
  #156  
Old March 2nd 04, 04:15 PM
Jacqueline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:55:41 +0000, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:
I see person B starting to troll, being called out, and being unable
to produce evidence because no such evidence can exist. She is welcome
to spout her "experiences" but I know in advance there is little
chance she will start telling the truth as she is now too deep in that
hole of hers.


The evidence does exist, you just don't want to look, listen or
understand. Nothing I have said has been a 'lie', I can back my
statements. I don't have the time or inclination to go around making
up things for the fun of it. I came here for intelligent conversation
about my number one love - cats. Instead this place seems to be
dominated by you and your pointless uninformed nonense and inability
to hold a two-way conversation.

Confronted with that situation, who would you be more likely to take
seriously? Why?


Frankly, I always go for the facts.


Me too.
  #157  
Old March 2nd 04, 04:15 PM
Jacqueline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:55:41 +0000, Bob Brenchley.
wrote:
I see person B starting to troll, being called out, and being unable
to produce evidence because no such evidence can exist. She is welcome
to spout her "experiences" but I know in advance there is little
chance she will start telling the truth as she is now too deep in that
hole of hers.


The evidence does exist, you just don't want to look, listen or
understand. Nothing I have said has been a 'lie', I can back my
statements. I don't have the time or inclination to go around making
up things for the fun of it. I came here for intelligent conversation
about my number one love - cats. Instead this place seems to be
dominated by you and your pointless uninformed nonense and inability
to hold a two-way conversation.

Confronted with that situation, who would you be more likely to take
seriously? Why?


Frankly, I always go for the facts.


Me too.
  #158  
Old March 2nd 04, 11:29 PM
Gwenhwyfaer de Tierveil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quoth Bob Brenchley.:
Giving you an impression is not the same thing as proving.


In your opinion.


No, period.

When they offer evidence to back up their position it's quite normal
to retreat from such a dogmatic position and consider that evidence.


Sorry, but when you know the facts as well as I do then there is no
retreat needed.


You're claiming absolute knowledge. Extraordinary claims require
extraordinary proof, proof that permits of no contradiction. You haven't
provided this - you've simply repeated your assertion over and over.

No she wasn't - you refused her every offer to back up her
statements.


She was given ample opportunity to back out of the hole she was
digging, she insisted on keeping up the digging rather than take any
of the outs that were offered.


What _are_ you blathering on about? What hole? What digging?

You made a statement.

She refuted it, citing her experience as counter-example.

You repeated your assertion, and called her integrity into question,
without offering any evidence.

She offered evidence to back her counter-example.

You once more repeated your assertion, repeated your questioning of her
integrity, again without question, and refused to even consider her
evidence.

She, being a rational human being, gave up at this point, and made an
uncharitable (although broadly accurate) assertion about your
self-opinion.

In all of this, it's you that's coming off as the jerk.

I don't believe you - I believe her. Sadly, you are more responsible for
this than she is.

Put yourself in my shoes. I see person A shouting the same thing over
and over, whilst refusing to offer evidence for his assertions, or
consider evidence anyone else may put forward for theirs. I see
person B reasonably pointing out that her experience is different and
making an offer of evidence to back up her assertions. I don't know
either person, so I have no evidence as to either person's general
trustworthiness.


I see person A stating the facts, facts that have been backed up by
those that work at the hard end of cat care in the UK.


I didn't ask you to tell me what you can see. I know what you can see.
You never tire of shouting it.

I was telling you what I could see, and asking you to consider it from
my perspective.

You _are_ capable of doing this, aren't you?

Confronted with that situation, who would you be more likely to take
seriously? Why?


Frankly, I always go for the facts.


Frankly, I doubt that you can tell the difference.
--
Gwenhwyfaer (emails need [Private] in the subject)

some girls wander by themselves
  #159  
Old March 2nd 04, 11:29 PM
Gwenhwyfaer de Tierveil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quoth Bob Brenchley.:
Giving you an impression is not the same thing as proving.


In your opinion.


No, period.

When they offer evidence to back up their position it's quite normal
to retreat from such a dogmatic position and consider that evidence.


Sorry, but when you know the facts as well as I do then there is no
retreat needed.


You're claiming absolute knowledge. Extraordinary claims require
extraordinary proof, proof that permits of no contradiction. You haven't
provided this - you've simply repeated your assertion over and over.

No she wasn't - you refused her every offer to back up her
statements.


She was given ample opportunity to back out of the hole she was
digging, she insisted on keeping up the digging rather than take any
of the outs that were offered.


What _are_ you blathering on about? What hole? What digging?

You made a statement.

She refuted it, citing her experience as counter-example.

You repeated your assertion, and called her integrity into question,
without offering any evidence.

She offered evidence to back her counter-example.

You once more repeated your assertion, repeated your questioning of her
integrity, again without question, and refused to even consider her
evidence.

She, being a rational human being, gave up at this point, and made an
uncharitable (although broadly accurate) assertion about your
self-opinion.

In all of this, it's you that's coming off as the jerk.

I don't believe you - I believe her. Sadly, you are more responsible for
this than she is.

Put yourself in my shoes. I see person A shouting the same thing over
and over, whilst refusing to offer evidence for his assertions, or
consider evidence anyone else may put forward for theirs. I see
person B reasonably pointing out that her experience is different and
making an offer of evidence to back up her assertions. I don't know
either person, so I have no evidence as to either person's general
trustworthiness.


I see person A stating the facts, facts that have been backed up by
those that work at the hard end of cat care in the UK.


I didn't ask you to tell me what you can see. I know what you can see.
You never tire of shouting it.

I was telling you what I could see, and asking you to consider it from
my perspective.

You _are_ capable of doing this, aren't you?

Confronted with that situation, who would you be more likely to take
seriously? Why?


Frankly, I always go for the facts.


Frankly, I doubt that you can tell the difference.
--
Gwenhwyfaer (emails need [Private] in the subject)

some girls wander by themselves
  #160  
Old March 4th 04, 12:57 PM
Bob Brenchley.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:29:08 +0000, Gwenhwyfaer de Tierveil
wrote:

Quoth Bob Brenchley.:
Giving you an impression is not the same thing as proving.


In your opinion.


No, period.


As I said, in your opinion.

When they offer evidence to back up their position it's quite normal
to retreat from such a dogmatic position and consider that evidence.


Sorry, but when you know the facts as well as I do then there is no
retreat needed.


You're claiming absolute knowledge. Extraordinary claims require
extraordinary proof, proof that permits of no contradiction. You haven't
provided this - you've simply repeated your assertion over and over.


Nope. I'm claiming facts, and have given her all the outs that are
possible. She hasn't taken one and continues to stick to her initial
lie.

No she wasn't - you refused her every offer to back up her
statements.


She was given ample opportunity to back out of the hole she was
digging, she insisted on keeping up the digging rather than take any
of the outs that were offered.


What _are_ you blathering on about? What hole? What digging?

You made a statement.


I have given the facts.

She refuted it, citing her experience as counter-example.


No, she cannot refute it.

You repeated your assertion, and called her integrity into question,
without offering any evidence.


The fact that she tried to refute already proven facts, and continued
to do so even after the various possible "get outs" had been offered,
was what called her integrity into question.

She offered evidence to back her counter-example.


That is the point, there cannot be any evidence. Either the cats she
has (if they exist) come under one of the groups which people like
Cats Protection will consider for indoor only homes[1] or she lied to
CP at the time of the home visit telling them that the cats would have
time outside.

[1] even with many of those which do fit into the limited categories
considered for indoor only homes CP would prefer them to have homes
where they can go out.

You once more repeated your assertion, repeated your questioning of her
integrity, again without question, and refused to even consider her
evidence.

She, being a rational human being, gave up at this point, and made an
uncharitable (although broadly accurate) assertion about your
self-opinion.


Rational human beings to not ill treat cats by keeping them in 24/7.

In all of this, it's you that's coming off as the jerk.

I don't believe you - I believe her. Sadly, you are more responsible for
this than she is.


I'm not the one abusing cats and lying. She is.

Put yourself in my shoes. I see person A shouting the same thing over
and over, whilst refusing to offer evidence for his assertions, or
consider evidence anyone else may put forward for theirs. I see
person B reasonably pointing out that her experience is different and
making an offer of evidence to back up her assertions. I don't know
either person, so I have no evidence as to either person's general
trustworthiness.


I see person A stating the facts, facts that have been backed up by
those that work at the hard end of cat care in the UK.


I didn't ask you to tell me what you can see. I know what you can see.
You never tire of shouting it.

I was telling you what I could see, and asking you to consider it from
my perspective.

You _are_ capable of doing this, aren't you?


Not when it goes against the facts.

Confronted with that situation, who would you be more likely to take
seriously? Why?


Frankly, I always go for the facts.


Frankly, I doubt that you can tell the difference.


It is very easy.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.
 




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