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#21
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Totally OT. China
"Cheryl" Jack Campin - bogus address wrote: They have just executed a Brit got bringing in drugs and he has bi-polar and allegedy he was told he was going there to be a pop star. Well, you can certainly protest to China and boycott Chinese products. But if you intend to travel, it would be an excellent idea to remember that when you are in a foreign country, you are under their laws, and subject to their punishments and their rulings on whether you are sane enough to stand trial and be punished. If you're insane you aren't very likely to take that on board. (You've basically described the logic of "Catch-22", where insanity was an excuse to get out of the army but anyone who wanted to use it had ipso facto demonstrated their sanity and thereby had no excuse). That was partly my point. What 'counts' as insanity in the legal sense, and to what degree it can be used as a defense in legal matters varies considerably from place to place. I know too few of the details in this case, but I can easily imagine someone who wasn't mentally ill enough to be protected from himself in Canada or the UK or the US still being sane enough to be convicted and punished in many other countries of the world. There's no international consensus on what level and degree of mental illness eliminates criminal responsibility. The central idea of 'Catch-22' worked as well as it did because it demonstrated how an incomplete understanding of mental illness combined with the requirements of daily life led to unexpected consequences. That still happens - with every poor soul on the street freezing and abused and refusing medication, who can't be kept warm and safe and fed because it would abuse his rights, and with people who function well enough, mostly, to avoid catastrophe until they end up past their limits and dead after they charge a cop with an axe. Or commit a capital offence. The saddest cases are those in which the family members have been desperately trying for decades to avoid tragedy; to get their relative treated. And they fail, because once the relative is of age, they have no more control. I know about the abuses this situation was set up to avoid - it's just the unintended consequences, again. And I don't know if this man was such a person. The people I've known with manic depression or whatever they're calling it now, couldn't have organized, much less paid for, a trip to the other side of the world, but of course severity and responsiveness to treatment vary enormously. snip -- Cheryl All I have to add to all of this mess is ...wow...what a mess. Kyla |
#22
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Totally OT. China
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:20:56 -0500, Kyla `=^..^=` wrote
(in article ): I wish the USA would stop being the so called 'peacekeepers' of the whole freaking World. Amen. Let's get our own house in order. -- Ketzl's Dad |
#23
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Totally OT. China
"Christina Websell" wrote in message ... "Cheryl" wrote in message ... Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" wrote in message ... On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote: That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed Of course they are. But when you leave your own country and travel to another, you are subject to their laws and punishments. Any government that enforces capital punishment is going to apply it to all criminals, not just their own citizens. It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually two way and often will not apply for more severe penalties than the country where the criminal is located. Jo |
#24
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Totally OT. China
"Joe Dee" On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:20:56 -0500, Kyla `=^..^=` wrote (in article I wish the USA would stop being the so called 'peacekeepers' of the whole freaking World. Amen. Let's get our own house in order. -- Ketzl's Dad We should do that first, IMO. Mosey's Meowmie |
#25
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Totally OT. China
"Jofirey" "Christina Websell" "Cheryl" Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bastXXXe That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed Of course they are. But when you leave your own country and travel to another, you are subject to their laws and punishments. Any government that enforces capital punishment is going to apply it to all criminals, not just their own citizens. It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually two way and often will not apply for more severe penalties than the country where the criminal is located. Jo Sort of takes the fun out of traveling, dunnit? Kyla --who is happy to just stay put. |
#26
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Totally OT. China
"Kyla `=^..^=`" wrote in message ... "Jofirey" "Christina Websell" "Cheryl" Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bastXXXe That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed Of course they are. But when you leave your own country and travel to another, you are subject to their laws and punishments. Any government that enforces capital punishment is going to apply it to all criminals, not just their own citizens. It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually two way and often will not apply for more severe penalties than the country where the criminal is located. Jo Sort of takes the fun out of traveling, dunnit? Not if you are willing to abide by the laws of the place you visit. Really not an awful lot to ask is it? Jo |
#27
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Totally OT. China
On Dec 30, 8:32*pm, "Kyla `=^..^=`" wrote:
"Jofirey" "Christina Websell" "Cheryl" Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bastXXXe That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? *China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. *It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed Of course they are. *But when you leave your own country and travel to another, you are subject to their laws and punishments. *Any government that enforces capital punishment is going to apply it to all criminals, not just their own citizens. It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually two way and often will not apply for more severe penalties than the country where the criminal is located. Jo Sort of takes the fun out of traveling, dunnit? Kyla I don't know about that, but it certainly takes the fun out of smuggling heroin into China. Sherry |
#28
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Totally OT. China
Kyla `=^..^=` wrote:
The Brits have a total right to bed annoyed or even upset. Our enemies in the Mid East are executing people all the time... do they care?? Nope!! No sleep lost there. I hate war of any kind and we should all get the hell out of there and let them solve their own problems. Viet Nam was so sick, so was the Gulf War, WW2, and all the others. I wish the USA would stop being the so called 'peacekeepers' of the whole freaking World. Kyla How are your German, Japanese, and Arabic? I don't recall the US starting any of those wars and I do recall them ending, with the help of just about every free country in the world, both fronts of WWII and The Gulf War. And Rob says you're welcome for the sacrifice he has made so that you can write this. Pam S. |
#29
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Totally OT. China
Kyla `=^..^=` wrote:
"Jofirey" "Christina Websell" "Cheryl" Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, bastXXXe That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed Of course they are. But when you leave your own country and travel to another, you are subject to their laws and punishments. Any government that enforces capital punishment is going to apply it to all criminals, not just their own citizens. It does get a bit iffy in that extradition agreements are usually two way and often will not apply for more severe penalties than the country where the criminal is located. Jo Sort of takes the fun out of traveling, dunnit? Kyla --who is happy to just stay put. Only if you like to commit crimes. Pam S. |
#30
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Totally OT. China
Christina Websell wrote:
"Cheryl" wrote in message ... Christina Websell wrote: "Lesley" wrote in message ... On Dec 29, 3:36 pm, wrote: That said, the number of executions in the US doesn't even come close to the number done in China. Apparently in China you can be executed for tax evasion.....or fraud ....over here that could lead to some very interesting scenes in Parliament but whilst I am inclined to deal harshly with our MP's perhaps not that harshly Lesley Did you actually take on board what I said? China has executed a Brit and that is very serious. More than serious. It is so not allowed to execute a Brit since we had the good sense to make capital punishment illegal since the 1950's British laws apply in Britain. Chinese laws apply in China. I don't think it's allowed to execute a foreign citizen and I think you'll find Britain is more than annoyed about this. Tweed You have some very strange ideas, Tweed. Personally I find capital punishment barbaric but all countries have their own laws however unjust. -- Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Bagheera & Shadow) Cats leave pawprints on your heart http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk |
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