OT. Rant

Yowie wrote:

"Yoj" wrote in message
. com...
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot
tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.

Racism and bigotry are never right. Never. They have always been used
as
an excuse to opress the minority (and sometimes even a weak majority)
by
those in power.
I just told Tom that if his sister and her husband voted for the
anti-gay ammendment in their state's election, then they are not
welcome
in our house. I'm sorry, but if you find my relationship so repugnant,
that you would vote to inscribe discrimination in your state's
constitution, then I do not want to welcome you into my house.
As an aside, the bible has been used throughout history to justify and
defend many horrible things, from the crusades to slavery in the US
and
the oppresion of women.

--
Victor Martinez

It's really had to have such bigotry in your own family, or its
equivalent. You're right about the Bible. It can be, and has been,
used to prove and/or justify just about everything. :-(

Which is a shame, because if you boil the message it all down, the theme of
the second half at least is "love each other like I love you "(ie, be
excellent to each other and party on dudes). Whether or not you believe the
Bible to be anythign from the literal word of the Ultimate Deity to just
another book, its hard to argue with a message that calls us all to love
each other equally (IMHO, anyway)

Its also a shame that a friendship can't cope with a bit of disagreement.
There are people here whose views are not my own on any number of different
things (from as far-reaching as poitics and religion to the silly things
like fruit and vegetable preferences), but I would still be happy to call
them friends - and good friends atthat. Here and there, I've even had
friendly discussions about our different views. I mean, I'm just as stupid
and pigheaded about my hot-buttons as anyone is about theirs, but if two (or
more) people value their friendship there are ways of dealing with differing
opinions. I don't think your so-called friend had much respect for your
friendship, but perhaps it was not built on the most solid foundations
anyway.

Yowie

I agree with Yowie here. Friendships are really important and you
should be able to discuss anything regardless of your differing
viewpoints. You must have had a lot of mutual interests together to
form this friendship.

I rarely reveal my political or religious beliefs unless I can have an
analytical and sensible conversation about them. I'd just tell her
that you don't want to discuss the subjects and get onto the topics that
brought you together in the first place.

Bev

I think the thing missing here on your friend's part is 'tact'
The email of the species is more deadly than the mail.

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:40:43 GMT, "Magic Mood Jeep©"
wrote:

I think it is totally *STUPID* for the government to define who can & cannot
get married. I feel that if they are both consenting adults (and human lol)
that they should have the right to get married. Man & man, woman & woman,
woman & man, their union has no effect on me.

That pretty well sums up my take on the subject. My feeling is that
the government has no business trying to legistrate inside a
household. Unfortunately, with current tax/health
care/inheritance/child custody laws, etc etc, that is exactly what
they're doing. The current laws are discriminatory, and the recent
initiatives in some states to ban same sex marriages were initiatives
to continue to discriminate.
--
Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky (RB)

[remove Junk for email]
Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:40:43 GMT, "Magic Mood Jeep©"
wrote:

I think it is totally *STUPID* for the government to define who can & cannot
get married. I feel that if they are both consenting adults (and human lol)
that they should have the right to get married. Man & man, woman & woman,
woman & man, their union has no effect on me.

That pretty well sums up my take on the subject. My feeling is that
the government has no business trying to legistrate inside a
household. Unfortunately, with current tax/health
care/inheritance/child custody laws, etc etc, that is exactly what
they're doing. The current laws are discriminatory, and the recent
initiatives in some states to ban same sex marriages were initiatives
to continue to discriminate.
--
Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky (RB)

[remove Junk for email]
Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

"Yowie" wrote in message
...

Which is a shame, because if you boil the message it all down, the theme
of
the second half at least is "love each other like I love you "(ie, be
excellent to each other and party on dudes). Whether or not you believe
the
Bible to be anythign from the literal word of the Ultimate Deity to just
another book, its hard to argue with a message that calls us all to love
each other equally (IMHO, anyway)

Its also a shame that a friendship can't cope with a bit of disagreement.
There are people here whose views are not my own on any number of
different
things (from as far-reaching as poitics and religion to the silly things
like fruit and vegetable preferences), but I would still be happy to call
them friends - and good friends atthat. Here and there, I've even had
friendly discussions about our different views. I mean, I'm just as stupid
and pigheaded about my hot-buttons as anyone is about theirs, but if two
(or
more) people value their friendship there are ways of dealing with
differing
opinions. I don't think your so-called friend had much respect for your
friendship, but perhaps it was not built on the most solid foundations
anyway.

Yowie

Well, I have friends who have differing political and religious beliefs,
*BUT* I don't think I would want to be friends with someone who hates others
based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or *anything* other
than cruely or meanness of spirit.

There are lots of "people" in the world who deserve to be hated (terrorists
who victimize innocents comes to mind), so if you absolutely *have* to hate
somebody, hate somebody who deserves it, not somebody who just enjoys a
different lifestyle from you and doesn't hurt anyone else by doing so!

Hugs,

CatNipped

"Yowie" wrote in message
...

Which is a shame, because if you boil the message it all down, the theme
of
the second half at least is "love each other like I love you "(ie, be
excellent to each other and party on dudes). Whether or not you believe
the
Bible to be anythign from the literal word of the Ultimate Deity to just
another book, its hard to argue with a message that calls us all to love
each other equally (IMHO, anyway)

Its also a shame that a friendship can't cope with a bit of disagreement.
There are people here whose views are not my own on any number of
different
things (from as far-reaching as poitics and religion to the silly things
like fruit and vegetable preferences), but I would still be happy to call
them friends - and good friends atthat. Here and there, I've even had
friendly discussions about our different views. I mean, I'm just as stupid
and pigheaded about my hot-buttons as anyone is about theirs, but if two
(or
more) people value their friendship there are ways of dealing with
differing
opinions. I don't think your so-called friend had much respect for your
friendship, but perhaps it was not built on the most solid foundations
anyway.

Yowie

Well, I have friends who have differing political and religious beliefs,
*BUT* I don't think I would want to be friends with someone who hates others
based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or *anything* other
than cruely or meanness of spirit.

There are lots of "people" in the world who deserve to be hated (terrorists
who victimize innocents comes to mind), so if you absolutely *have* to hate
somebody, hate somebody who deserves it, not somebody who just enjoys a
different lifestyle from you and doesn't hurt anyone else by doing so!

Hugs,

CatNipped

"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
...

Sorrry, but it doesn't sound like much of a loss. The sad thing that
I see is that she is exactly what the world is beginning to think of
as a typical American. And it just ain't so.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. The type of people who write and
endorse that sort of stuff are the ones that get shown on international
television, on international radio, and in many Usenet groups. I struggle
myself to remember the Americans aren't necessarily all like that - I've
learnt that from the Americans here. But most folk around the world don't
read RPCA and don't get to interact with regular Americans like I do. If the
only time you saw or heard an Australian, for example, they were spouting of
Aussie-centic stuff of the same ilk, what would you think about Australians
in general?

If you've ever wondered "Why do they hate us?", its because we only see &
hear Americans who would write that crap (or worse), we never or only rarely
get to see less extremist views (coz it doesn't get ratings!)

You folks need far better PR (as do decent, peaceloving Muslims)

Yowie


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
...

Sorrry, but it doesn't sound like much of a loss. The sad thing that
I see is that she is exactly what the world is beginning to think of
as a typical American. And it just ain't so.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. The type of people who write and
endorse that sort of stuff are the ones that get shown on international
television, on international radio, and in many Usenet groups. I struggle
myself to remember the Americans aren't necessarily all like that - I've
learnt that from the Americans here. But most folk around the world don't
read RPCA and don't get to interact with regular Americans like I do. If the
only time you saw or heard an Australian, for example, they were spouting of
Aussie-centic stuff of the same ilk, what would you think about Australians
in general?

If you've ever wondered "Why do they hate us?", its because we only see &
hear Americans who would write that crap (or worse), we never or only rarely
get to see less extremist views (coz it doesn't get ratings!)

You folks need far better PR (as do decent, peaceloving Muslims)

Yowie


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.791 / Virus Database: 535 - Release Date: 8/11/04

"Christina Websell" wrote in message ...
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.

Racism and bigotry are never right. Never. They have always been used as
an excuse to opress the minority (and sometimes even a weak majority) by
those in power.
I just told Tom that if his sister and her husband voted for the anti-gay
ammendment in their state's election, then they are not welcome in our
house. I'm sorry, but if you find my relationship so repugnant, that you
would vote to inscribe discrimination in your state's constitution, then I
do not want to welcome you into my house.
As an aside, the bible has been used throughout history to justify and
defend many horrible things, from the crusades to slavery in the US and
the oppresion of women.

--
Victor Martinez


This is an example:
Andy Rooney said on "60 Minutes" a few weeks back:

I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except
numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are
things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment
Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United
Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or
Miss White America; and see what happens... Jesse Jackson will be knocking
down your door. Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a
killer. You can kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is
trying to ban you from driving to the ball game.

I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, that is why there are
no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA
BURKE?

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is
an opinion.

I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are different,
weird, or tick me off.

When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of
the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of
Probability.

I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes, a
newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact,
if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!

My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the countries
you were born in to come over and disrespect ours. I think the police should
have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you threaten them after they
tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word "freeze" or "stop" in
English, see the above lines.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are
qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or
tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or
any other business.

We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in
wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over
here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their
interpretations.

I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.


I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That doesn't
stop you from watching them.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue
to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system
that's better, and put your name on the building.

It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a
parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when
necessary, and say "NO!"

I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please don't
pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home until that
new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you
serve me French fries!

I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and not
a single one of them was born in Africa; so how can they be
"African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around
saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great,
great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and
nowhere else.


And if you don't like my point of view, tough...

DON'T PASS IT ON!!


If you would like her email address to mail your opinions about this, I'll
try and find it.
Makes me sick.

Tweed


I don't understand why people feel the need to send emails with some
sort of statement of their political or religious convictions to
others like some sort of spam. Given that these involve fairly
strongly held personal beliefs, I think doing that is pretty rude.
It's not like the message is part of some ongoing discussion or
reasoned debate; and often those sort of things are being sent out to
persons that the sender does not have the sort of relationship with
that would allow them to bring up subjects like that out of the clear
blue sky.

For a while during the last presidential campaign, I periodically got
pretty pointed political emails from someone I do business with. The
sender was copying tracts that he found on the web and mailing it to
bunches of recipients simultaneously, which the sender of your email
probably did. I just deleted them along with other spam when I opened
them and saw what they were. They stopped a few months before the
election and my suspiscion was that the sender realized he wasn't
doing himself any favors by sending out such things to people he did
business with. I briefly thought about asking the sender to stop
sending them to me but never did, partially because I wasn't being
innundiated with them. I'm a little lazy, so sue me. :-)

As some others have pointed out, the message you got isn't even really
something that Andy Rooney said, although that's sort of secondary.

Having said all that, what is there to get really worked up about?
You now know there exists a person who has views that you don't like
or even find repulsive? If that's it, we'd all be going around in a
perpetual state of angst. All it would take is a five second search on
the web to get all worked up, no matter what views one holds. If you
think her views are just so beyond the pale that you can't tolerate
communicating with her, it seems to me the best thing is to drop the
cyber relationship and move on. Life's just too short.

"Christina Websell" wrote in message ...
"Victor Martinez" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:
It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.

Racism and bigotry are never right. Never. They have always been used as
an excuse to opress the minority (and sometimes even a weak majority) by
those in power.
I just told Tom that if his sister and her husband voted for the anti-gay
ammendment in their state's election, then they are not welcome in our
house. I'm sorry, but if you find my relationship so repugnant, that you
would vote to inscribe discrimination in your state's constitution, then I
do not want to welcome you into my house.
As an aside, the bible has been used throughout history to justify and
defend many horrible things, from the crusades to slavery in the US and
the oppresion of women.

--
Victor Martinez


This is an example:
Andy Rooney said on "60 Minutes" a few weeks back:

I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except
numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are
things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment
Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United
Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or
Miss White America; and see what happens... Jesse Jackson will be knocking
down your door. Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a
killer. You can kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is
trying to ban you from driving to the ball game.

I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, that is why there are
no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA
BURKE?

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is
an opinion.

I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are different,
weird, or tick me off.

When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of
the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of
Probability.

I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes, a
newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact,
if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!

My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the countries
you were born in to come over and disrespect ours. I think the police should
have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you threaten them after they
tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word "freeze" or "stop" in
English, see the above lines.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are
qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or
tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or
any other business.

We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in
wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over
here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their
interpretations.

I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.


I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That doesn't
stop you from watching them.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue
to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system
that's better, and put your name on the building.

It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a
parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when
necessary, and say "NO!"

I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please don't
pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home until that
new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you
serve me French fries!

I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and not
a single one of them was born in Africa; so how can they be
"African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around
saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great,
great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and
nowhere else.


And if you don't like my point of view, tough...

DON'T PASS IT ON!!


If you would like her email address to mail your opinions about this, I'll
try and find it.
Makes me sick.

Tweed


I don't understand why people feel the need to send emails with some
sort of statement of their political or religious convictions to
others like some sort of spam. Given that these involve fairly
strongly held personal beliefs, I think doing that is pretty rude.
It's not like the message is part of some ongoing discussion or
reasoned debate; and often those sort of things are being sent out to
persons that the sender does not have the sort of relationship with
that would allow them to bring up subjects like that out of the clear
blue sky.

For a while during the last presidential campaign, I periodically got
pretty pointed political emails from someone I do business with. The
sender was copying tracts that he found on the web and mailing it to
bunches of recipients simultaneously, which the sender of your email
probably did. I just deleted them along with other spam when I opened
them and saw what they were. They stopped a few months before the
election and my suspiscion was that the sender realized he wasn't
doing himself any favors by sending out such things to people he did
business with. I briefly thought about asking the sender to stop
sending them to me but never did, partially because I wasn't being
innundiated with them. I'm a little lazy, so sue me. :-)

As some others have pointed out, the message you got isn't even really
something that Andy Rooney said, although that's sort of secondary.

Having said all that, what is there to get really worked up about?
You now know there exists a person who has views that you don't like
or even find repulsive? If that's it, we'd all be going around in a
perpetual state of angst. All it would take is a five second search on
the web to get all worked up, no matter what views one holds. If you
think her views are just so beyond the pale that you can't tolerate
communicating with her, it seems to me the best thing is to drop the
cyber relationship and move on. Life's just too short.

I think I just saw a black paw being raised. :-)

One belonging to a cat with one eye ;-)

Cheers, helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
**$om $

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--