Advice please?

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..

"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm
wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so
rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the
most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend
time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter
end
is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.

I know cats are not humans, but I think you have to look at it like
this:
if
you were her, living her life, would you be happy to keep on living? I
mean, if, as you said, she seems quite happy in general, what makes you
think it would be more merciful to have her put down? As you said,
everyone
slows down in later years, but unless a cat is clearly in unbearable
pain
and clearly suffering, not just in a bit of discomfort (do you think
most
of
us would want to be euthanized for arthritis?), I don't think there's
any
reason not to let them live out their life. And if you're worried about
her
not having enough interest in her life, maybe you could try and find
some
toys or other distractions appropriate to an older cat (not that I can
think
of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure others might have
suggestions,
and there are so many resources on the web), though quality time with
you
and the other cats may be enough for her at this age. Anyway, I think
unless she's suffering, you can comfortably let her go on living out her
life; I'm sure you'll get plenty more input to help you make your
difficult
decision.

All the Best,
Ann

P.S. When you said, "I know she has some discomfort from her lower back,
and
probably kidney problems," did you mean, probably her kidney problems
are
giving her some discomfort? Or probably she has kidney problems?
Because
if you weren't sure, I was going to say you might want to get her
checked
out, but then I realized you might just not be sure of the level of
discomfort. In any case, you could always consult your vet as to how
much
they think she is suffering in general, and what they think her quality
of
life is; most competent vets will not put a cat down unless they truly
believe it's necessary, and I'm sure they'd be glad to give you their
professional opinion as to her state of well-being (if you can afford
it,
that is). I'm sure a vet would also be happy to give you advice as to
ways
of keeping an older cat occupied and interested as well.


I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
more
and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney problems, but it
was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better not to treat
her.

You need a new vet, IMO. 15 is old but kidney problems can be very
successfully treated and add years to her life. If it isn't too late, I'd
sure try. Many, many people on this group have cats with severe kidney
disease, but the cats are living good lives. Some have started treatment as
late as 18 years. Your vet is not doing you a favor and it is sad. I really
think the next step is a different vet and at least *try* to give her a
chance. I can see that she is important to you. It's your vets duty to try
if you want them too. Treating kidney problems usually consists mostly of a
diet change *if possible* and fluid treatments. They are not traumatic.
Please let us know.

Karen

"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , "Dooies B.B"
wrote:

| I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
| more and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney problems,

"Mild" is a relative term. You should know that kidneys normally have
massive redundancy: there are *no* clinical signs of renal failure until
75% of kidney function has already been lost.

| but it was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better
| not to treat her.

This is complete nonsense. Whilst not curable, kidney failure is far
from untreatable. Please see:

http://www.felinecrf.org/

If your vet doesn't like the idea of a hydration regime (subcutaenous
fluids, done at home), then you should seek another vet for a second
opinion.

Eight months is definitely too long a gap between checkups for a cat
with kidney troubles. You should have a full blood panel done to see
where her numbers are.

| I just find it difficult to watch her slowly stop existing.

You do realize, I hope, that it may not just be her arthritis that is
troubling her at this point? If she has kidney trouble, the toxins will
be building up in her blood, causing her to feel nauseous and tired.

| The problem really for me is just not knowing how much she is suffering.

If there were a way to make her feel better, would you go for it?

If you're willing to answer yes, then please take her to a vet who knows
how to *treat* old cats, rather than one who merely commiserates.


Of course I would try and make her feel better. I have acted under the
advisement of my vet, and it seems I have made a mistake which I will
attempt to sort out. However if the treatment itself is trumatic, and will
not result in a marked improvement and may well need to be repeated serveral
times, then I do wonder if it is the right choice forcing it on an animal
who can't understand what is happening, and who may well have other health
concerns that already impeed her happiness in day to day life.

I have researched the website and it seems that Katie is almost certainly
suffering from some Kidney problems. And yes I am aware that her back
problems are not likely to be the only thing causing her problems.

I do feel that you are attacking me merely for making a mistake based on
information given to me from a trusted person. Whist I realise now that the
choices I have made up to the point may have adversely affected my cat, she
is well loved, and it was not out of choice. My concern has always been for
the welfare of my animals, and not of cost or anything else.

"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , "Dooies B.B"
wrote:

| I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
| more and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney problems,

"Mild" is a relative term. You should know that kidneys normally have
massive redundancy: there are *no* clinical signs of renal failure until
75% of kidney function has already been lost.

| but it was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better
| not to treat her.

This is complete nonsense. Whilst not curable, kidney failure is far
from untreatable. Please see:

http://www.felinecrf.org/

If your vet doesn't like the idea of a hydration regime (subcutaenous
fluids, done at home), then you should seek another vet for a second
opinion.

Eight months is definitely too long a gap between checkups for a cat
with kidney troubles. You should have a full blood panel done to see
where her numbers are.

| I just find it difficult to watch her slowly stop existing.

You do realize, I hope, that it may not just be her arthritis that is
troubling her at this point? If she has kidney trouble, the toxins will
be building up in her blood, causing her to feel nauseous and tired.

| The problem really for me is just not knowing how much she is suffering.

If there were a way to make her feel better, would you go for it?

If you're willing to answer yes, then please take her to a vet who knows
how to *treat* old cats, rather than one who merely commiserates.


Of course I would try and make her feel better. I have acted under the
advisement of my vet, and it seems I have made a mistake which I will
attempt to sort out. However if the treatment itself is trumatic, and will
not result in a marked improvement and may well need to be repeated serveral
times, then I do wonder if it is the right choice forcing it on an animal
who can't understand what is happening, and who may well have other health
concerns that already impeed her happiness in day to day life.

I have researched the website and it seems that Katie is almost certainly
suffering from some Kidney problems. And yes I am aware that her back
problems are not likely to be the only thing causing her problems.

I do feel that you are attacking me merely for making a mistake based on
information given to me from a trusted person. Whist I realise now that the
choices I have made up to the point may have adversely affected my cat, she
is well loved, and it was not out of choice. My concern has always been for
the welfare of my animals, and not of cost or anything else.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Sorry to cross post but I have a bit of a dilema.

My cat is now 15 and a half, and although she still eats, drinks,
toilets,
and sleeps, she does little else. I know she has some discomfort from
her
lower back, and probably kidney problems. Other than that and her
increased
laziness she seems quite happy, purrs when I go to see her, still comes
down
stairs when she wants more food (I have 3 cats, and they decided they
wanted
to divide themselves so Katie got the upstairs, and Gizmo and betsy the
downstairs), she doesn't come and see me in bed any more and has no
desire
to go outside (even though she used to go out days at a time).

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm
wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so
rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the
most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter end
is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.



I agree the cat doesn't seem to be suffering, so there's no reason to put
her down at this point.

If you mean the cat doesn't jump on your bed while you're in it anymore,
you
can construct ramps to the bed and other favorite spots to help her get
where she wants. At her age, she probably has arthritis that limits
jumping. You vet may be able to prescribe medication to help her here.

Bill


She doesn't seem unable to jump when she wants to. She just simply seems not
to want to move. I've considered constructing ramps, but if she doesn't go
to the bedroom she can't go up the ramp.
She gets good days, and bad days, but the good seem to be getting less good
and the bad seem to be getting more frequent.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Sorry to cross post but I have a bit of a dilema.

My cat is now 15 and a half, and although she still eats, drinks,
toilets,
and sleeps, she does little else. I know she has some discomfort from
her
lower back, and probably kidney problems. Other than that and her
increased
laziness she seems quite happy, purrs when I go to see her, still comes
down
stairs when she wants more food (I have 3 cats, and they decided they
wanted
to divide themselves so Katie got the upstairs, and Gizmo and betsy the
downstairs), she doesn't come and see me in bed any more and has no
desire
to go outside (even though she used to go out days at a time).

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm
wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so
rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the
most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter end
is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.



I agree the cat doesn't seem to be suffering, so there's no reason to put
her down at this point.

If you mean the cat doesn't jump on your bed while you're in it anymore,
you
can construct ramps to the bed and other favorite spots to help her get
where she wants. At her age, she probably has arthritis that limits
jumping. You vet may be able to prescribe medication to help her here.

Bill


She doesn't seem unable to jump when she wants to. She just simply seems not
to want to move. I've considered constructing ramps, but if she doesn't go
to the bedroom she can't go up the ramp.
She gets good days, and bad days, but the good seem to be getting less good
and the bad seem to be getting more frequent.

"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Regardless of the choice I make about her life, I do plan to take her to
the
vets fairly soon, to once again get her checked over.

Well, I think this will help you make your decision, as the vet should be
able to give you a reasonable idea of just how much discomfort she is in,
if
any.


I love her to bits, and the thought of going up stairs and not seeing
her
there is difficult. However my family had a habit of prolonging animals
suffering in order to gain more time with the pet, and I am very
conscious
of not allowing my need to be with an animal overrid an animals best
interest. Hense I'm looking for advice

I think that's very admirable. I know it's a difficult situation;
regardless of whether someone we love is nearly gone, or just getting
older,
we can't help but remember them how they were and feel a little sad that
things have changed so much. But I think you won't be able to make an
informed choice for your kitty until you get some input from the vet,
especially if she's not very obvious about her pain. I hope the vet is
able
to treat any of her health problems after all, and that she can have a bit
more time with you in comfort, but in any case, please keep us informed.

All the Best,
Ann




Thanks for your input. I'm gonna try and get her an appointment next week,
it seems the sooner the better

"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Regardless of the choice I make about her life, I do plan to take her to
the
vets fairly soon, to once again get her checked over.

Well, I think this will help you make your decision, as the vet should be
able to give you a reasonable idea of just how much discomfort she is in,
if
any.


I love her to bits, and the thought of going up stairs and not seeing
her
there is difficult. However my family had a habit of prolonging animals
suffering in order to gain more time with the pet, and I am very
conscious
of not allowing my need to be with an animal overrid an animals best
interest. Hense I'm looking for advice

I think that's very admirable. I know it's a difficult situation;
regardless of whether someone we love is nearly gone, or just getting
older,
we can't help but remember them how they were and feel a little sad that
things have changed so much. But I think you won't be able to make an
informed choice for your kitty until you get some input from the vet,
especially if she's not very obvious about her pain. I hope the vet is
able
to treat any of her health problems after all, and that she can have a bit
more time with you in comfort, but in any case, please keep us informed.

All the Best,
Ann




Thanks for your input. I'm gonna try and get her an appointment next week,
it seems the sooner the better

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..

"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , "Dooies B.B"
wrote:

| I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
| more and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney
problems,

"Mild" is a relative term. You should know that kidneys normally have
massive redundancy: there are *no* clinical signs of renal failure until
75% of kidney function has already been lost.

| but it was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better
| not to treat her.

This is complete nonsense. Whilst not curable, kidney failure is far
from untreatable. Please see:

http://www.felinecrf.org/

If your vet doesn't like the idea of a hydration regime (subcutaenous
fluids, done at home), then you should seek another vet for a second
opinion.

Eight months is definitely too long a gap between checkups for a cat
with kidney troubles. You should have a full blood panel done to see
where her numbers are.

| I just find it difficult to watch her slowly stop existing.

You do realize, I hope, that it may not just be her arthritis that is
troubling her at this point? If she has kidney trouble, the toxins will
be building up in her blood, causing her to feel nauseous and tired.

| The problem really for me is just not knowing how much she is
suffering.

If there were a way to make her feel better, would you go for it?

If you're willing to answer yes, then please take her to a vet who knows
how to *treat* old cats, rather than one who merely commiserates.


Of course I would try and make her feel better. I have acted under the
advisement of my vet, and it seems I have made a mistake which I will
attempt to sort out. However if the treatment itself is trumatic, and will
not result in a marked improvement and may well need to be repeated
serveral
times, then I do wonder if it is the right choice forcing it on an animal
who can't understand what is happening, and who may well have other
health
concerns that already impeed her happiness in day to day life.

I have researched the website and it seems that Katie is almost certainly
suffering from some Kidney problems. And yes I am aware that her back
problems are not likely to be the only thing causing her problems.

I do feel that you are attacking me merely for making a mistake based on
information given to me from a trusted person. Whist I realise now that
the
choices I have made up to the point may have adversely affected my cat,
she
is well loved, and it was not out of choice. My concern has always been
for
the welfare of my animals, and not of cost or anything else.



I think Arjun is very unhappy with your vet. His frustration may fall into
terse terms. How would you know? Most people trust there vet and I'm very
sorry yours seems to not be up on this as Katie certainly would feel better
by now. From everything people have written here, their cats do not fine
fluids traumatic. I've watched my cats receive fluids for fever or
dehydration and they do not seem traumatized. I'd sure give it a shot.

Karen

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..

"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , "Dooies B.B"
wrote:

| I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
| more and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney
problems,

"Mild" is a relative term. You should know that kidneys normally have
massive redundancy: there are *no* clinical signs of renal failure until
75% of kidney function has already been lost.

| but it was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better
| not to treat her.

This is complete nonsense. Whilst not curable, kidney failure is far
from untreatable. Please see:

http://www.felinecrf.org/

If your vet doesn't like the idea of a hydration regime (subcutaenous
fluids, done at home), then you should seek another vet for a second
opinion.

Eight months is definitely too long a gap between checkups for a cat
with kidney troubles. You should have a full blood panel done to see
where her numbers are.

| I just find it difficult to watch her slowly stop existing.

You do realize, I hope, that it may not just be her arthritis that is
troubling her at this point? If she has kidney trouble, the toxins will
be building up in her blood, causing her to feel nauseous and tired.

| The problem really for me is just not knowing how much she is
suffering.

If there were a way to make her feel better, would you go for it?

If you're willing to answer yes, then please take her to a vet who knows
how to *treat* old cats, rather than one who merely commiserates.


Of course I would try and make her feel better. I have acted under the
advisement of my vet, and it seems I have made a mistake which I will
attempt to sort out. However if the treatment itself is trumatic, and will
not result in a marked improvement and may well need to be repeated
serveral
times, then I do wonder if it is the right choice forcing it on an animal
who can't understand what is happening, and who may well have other
health
concerns that already impeed her happiness in day to day life.

I have researched the website and it seems that Katie is almost certainly
suffering from some Kidney problems. And yes I am aware that her back
problems are not likely to be the only thing causing her problems.

I do feel that you are attacking me merely for making a mistake based on
information given to me from a trusted person. Whist I realise now that
the
choices I have made up to the point may have adversely affected my cat,
she
is well loved, and it was not out of choice. My concern has always been
for
the welfare of my animals, and not of cost or anything else.



I think Arjun is very unhappy with your vet. His frustration may fall into
terse terms. How would you know? Most people trust there vet and I'm very
sorry yours seems to not be up on this as Katie certainly would feel better
by now. From everything people have written here, their cats do not fine
fluids traumatic. I've watched my cats receive fluids for fever or
dehydration and they do not seem traumatized. I'd sure give it a shot.

Karen

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Of course I would try and make her feel better. I have acted under the
advisement of my vet, and it seems I have made a mistake which I will
attempt to sort out. However if the treatment itself is trumatic, and will
not result in a marked improvement and may well need to be repeated
serveral
times, then I do wonder if it is the right choice forcing it on an animal
who can't understand what is happening, and who may well have other
health
concerns that already impeed her happiness in day to day life.

Subcutaneous fluids treatment (often used for cats in renal failure) is not
traumatic. It may *look* more so to a person who's never seen sub-Q fluids
given, or who has never given them to their pet at home - since a needle is
involved. But once you see a vet do it & realize the cat is practically
oblivious to the whole deal, you realize it's basically a piece of cake. I
gave them to my CRF cat for months, & some people have done it for years, w/
no probs. As you've seen,m if a cat will eat a renal diet, all to the good,
& a Potassium supplement may also help if necessary. I also gave my cat
Procrit/Epogen injections for her CRF-related anemia - they were even easier
to give than the sub-Q fluids.

As the person who wrote the website (that I - & as it turned out, also Arjun
Ray - provided; well, it really is an excellent site!) discovered, treatment
for CRF in the UK - for some reason - is not nearly as prevalent & advised
by vets as it in the in US.

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

I have researched the website and it seems that Katie is almost certainly
suffering from some Kidney problems. And yes I am aware that her back
problems are not likely to be the only thing causing her problems.

I do feel that you are attacking me merely for making a mistake based on
information given to me from a trusted person. Whist I realise now that
the
choices I have made up to the point may have adversely affected my cat,
she
is well loved, and it was not out of choice. My concern has always been
for
the welfare of my animals, and not of cost or anything else.