If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
Charlie Wilkes writes:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:08:57 -0700, Sherry wrote: On Aug 17, 2:08 pm, Charlie Wilkes wrote: On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:36:11 -0400, Upscale wrote: Drowning (or suffocation as it might be called) brings on unconsciousness within a few seconds. An animal does not know to take a big breath like a human might. Unconsciousness happens in less than 10 seconds What is your source for this information? I don't believe it. A neighbor of mine had a problem with feral cats nesting under his deck, and he drowned some of them years ago. He said they would struggle for a good 3 minutes, and after about the second or third one, he started shooting them instead. Charlie I have a hard time believing it too. It came to our attention that a animal control in a neighboring town was trapping skunks, and drowning them in the traps. I lobbied hard over this. I don't care if they *are* skunks, I thought it was a terrible, frightening, and inhumane way to die. Sherry Mark Twain said this: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." It's easy enough to research topics like this on the web and find out what the experts think. The American Veterinary Medical Association's Guidelines on Euthanasia (June 2007) can be found he http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_we...euthanasia.pdf Drowning is listed in "Appendix 4 - Some Unacceptable Agents and Methods of Euthanasia" with the comment, "Drowning is not a form of euthanasia and is inhumane." Note that those are guidelines for vets. In a veterinary context there are many methods available that bring on sudden death or allow for the animal to be sedated first. |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
"Dan Espen" wrote in message Drowning is listed in "Appendix 4 - Some Unacceptable Agents and Methods of Euthanasia" with the comment, "Drowning is not a form of euthanasia and is inhumane." Note that those are guidelines for vets. In a veterinary context there are many methods available that bring on sudden death or allow for the animal to be sedated first. Thank you. I never said that there weren't easier and more acceptable methods of euthanasia. All I was trying to get across was that when an animal was in extreme agony and distress and the more accepted methods of putting an animal down were not immediately available, then I consider it more humane to use a fairly quick method to kill the animal. Despite the squeamishness of some of the respondents in this conversation, drowning is a relatively quick method. As to the person that was requesting my source for this information, my source works in the veterinary industry, but has absolutely no intent on becoming personally involved in this conversation. If that's not good enough for you, then feel perfectly free to research the topic yourself and present your information to the contrary. (with your sources for that information of course) |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
On 19 Aug, 08:41, "Upscale" wrote:
"Dan Espen" wrote in message Drowning is listed in "Appendix 4 - Some Unacceptable Agents and Methods of Euthanasia" with the comment, "Drowning is not a form of euthanasia and is inhumane." Note that those are guidelines for vets. In a veterinary context there are many methods available that bring on sudden death or allow for the animal to be sedated first. Thank you. I never said that there weren't easier and more acceptable methods of euthanasia. All I was trying to get across was that when an animal was in extreme agony and distress and the more accepted methods of putting an animal down were not immediately available, then I consider it more humane to use a fairly quick method to kill the animal. Despite the squeamishness of some of the respondents in this conversation, drowning is a relatively quick method. As to the person that was requesting my source for this information, my source works in the veterinary industry, but has absolutely no intent on becoming personally involved in this conversation. If that's not good enough for you, then feel perfectly free to research the topic yourself and present your information to the contrary. (with your sources for that information of course) If that's not good enough for you, then feel perfectly free to research the topic yourself and present your information to the contrary. (with your sources for that information of course) I believe he did, in appendix 4, if you wish to read it. If you follow the link, you will see his findings in the research he went to the trouble of producing. It would seem that I am one of those too squeamish to stick a kittens head in a bucket of water, & remain holding it there until the poor creatures struggles ceased. Perhaps you are right? I just don't have the stomach or confidence to try, for fear that I would be putting the poor kitten through further distress. You will understand what I mean when you take a look at the veterinary surgeons findings. Sheelagh"o" |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
"Sheelagh o" wrote in message I believe he did, in appendix 4, if you wish to read it. If you follow the link, you will see his findings in the research he went to the trouble of producing. And if *you* had read further, you'd have seen Dan mention that those findings were for vets. Since we're not vets, that doesn't leave the much easier option of a sedative and then a shot to kill the kitten. Perhaps you are right? I just don't have the stomach or confidence to try, for fear that I would be putting the poor kitten through further distress. You will understand what I mean when you take a look at the veterinary surgeons findings. Then you'd be actively forcing the kitten to live and suffer a longer period until you found some method that was less squeamish for you to use. Personally, I think that's pretty selfish. Tell me Sheelagh, if you had your guts ripped out and you were screaming in agony with nothing left for you to scream for quite a few minutes more until you slowly bled to death, would you accept being suffocated into unconsciousness within several seconds? I don't know about you, but I sure would. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
"Sheelagh o" wrote in message Perhaps you are right? I just don't have the stomach or confidence to try, for fear that I would be putting the poor kitten through further distress. In all honesty, I think we both have an animal's welfare at heart, just that we might take different routes to do something about it. Say what you want, I'm finished with this thread. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
Perhaps you are right? I just don't have the stomach or confidence to try, for fear that I would be putting the poor kitten through further distress. You will understand what I mean when you take a look at the veterinary surgeons findings. Sheelagh"o" For what it's worth....(I have been following this thread) I am 72 years old. (Yesterday was my birthday) When I was about 30, I drowned a mouse by holding it under water. (We had an infestation of mice, and I caught this one without a trap, so I drowned it.) That was 42 years ago.....I will never forget it, and I have never drowned anything else since. The point? - Just be advised that some of the things you might do when you are 30 will not sit well with you when you are older, so think well before you act....... |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
William Graham wrote:
Perhaps you are right? I just don't have the stomach or confidence to try, for fear that I would be putting the poor kitten through further distress. You will understand what I mean when you take a look at the veterinary surgeons findings. Sheelagh"o" For what it's worth....(I have been following this thread) I am 72 years old. (Yesterday was my birthday) When I was about 30, I drowned a mouse by holding it under water. (We had an infestation of mice, and I caught this one without a trap, so I drowned it.) That was 42 years ago.....I will never forget it, and I have never drowned anything else since. The point? - Just be advised that some of the things you might do when you are 30 will not sit well with you when you are older, so think well before you act....... Many happy returns to you William, & I hope that you had a very happy birthday? I have no intention of continuing an argument here either. I just felt it was a method I didn't feel comfortable with, *personally*. I wholeheartedly agree with what you had to say though William. You do see things differently as you get older. I can never forget the sight of what I saw, & it doesn't get easier as the years pass. It gets harder to understand. Why would one wait for kittens to get to around 6 weeks of age, before even considering dealing with the issue? I just felt it was barbaric, because of the sight of what I saw. I guess, Sadly I will never never get to the answer to that one. Sheelagh "o" -- Sheelagh "o" Message posted via http://www.catkb.com |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 05:22:08 -0700, Sheelagh o wrote:
On 19 Aug, 08:41, "Upscale" wrote: If that's not good enough for you, then feel perfectly free to research the topic yourself and present your information to the contrary. (with your sources for that information of course) I believe he did, in appendix 4, if you wish to read it. If you follow the link, you will see his findings in the research he went to the trouble of producing. I spent about 45 minutes on this and chose the most authoritative source among many. I also discovered that drowning animals is against the law in quite a few jurisdictions, and I ran across a news article about a couple in Arizona who were arrested earlier this month for "euthanizing" their cat in this manner... www.ajnews.com Charlie |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
On 19 Aug, 20:28, Charlie Wilkes
wrote: On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 05:22:08 -0700, Sheelagh o wrote: On 19 Aug, 08:41, "Upscale" wrote: If that's not good enough for you, then feel perfectly free to research the topic yourself and present your information to the contrary. (with your sources for that information of course) I believe he did, in appendix 4, if you wish to read it. If you follow the link, you will see his findings in the research he went to the trouble of producing. I spent about 45 minutes on this and chose the most authoritative source among many. I also discovered that drowning animals is against the law in quite a few jurisdictions, and I ran across a news article about a couple in Arizona who were arrested earlier this month for "euthanizing" their cat in this manner...www.ajnews.com Charlie and I ran across a news article about a couple in Arizona who were arrested earlier this month for "euthanizing" their cat in this manner...www.ajnews.com It, is probably almost stuck up my nose,but I can't seem to locate it. Is it on a different page Charlie? Sheelagh"o" |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Cat Pregnancy Questions?
"Sheelagh o" wrote in message I spent about 45 minutes on this and chose the most authoritative source among many. I also discovered that drowning animals is against the law in quite a few jurisdictions, and I ran across a news article about a couple in Arizona who were arrested earlier this month for "euthanizing" their cat in this manner...www.ajnews.com It, is probably almost stuck up my nose,but I can't seem to locate it. Is it on a different page Charlie? Sheelagh"o" I have one more comment on this. These examples of euthanizing and arrests and all that stuff. Were these cats severely injured when they were drowned or were they for the most part healthy cats? That's what we're talking about, euthanizing a severely injured cat. If someone killed a cat for another reason, then that has absolutely nothing to do with our discussion. *When* you find that link, research under what circumstances these cats were euthanized. *THEN* go and find me examples of someone being convicted for drowning a severely injured kitty. Until you can do that, you or Charlie or whoever wants to comment have no rebuttal to what I've been talking about. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Cat Pregnancy Questions? | Skye | Cats - misc | 56 | August 20th 07 08:08 PM |
Cat pregnancy worries | Jimmyness | Cat health & behaviour | 7 | January 5th 06 01:19 AM |
Jasmine's pregnancy (again) | meee | Cat health & behaviour | 4 | October 17th 05 03:21 AM |
Vet not detecting pregnancy | Marion | Cat health & behaviour | 36 | March 28th 04 12:19 AM |
Pregnancy and Heat | *~*SooZy*~* | Cats - misc | 5 | July 25th 03 09:17 PM |