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Toilet Training update



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 17th 04, 09:22 AM
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Yowie wrote:

I figured that if Shmogg has toxoplasmosis, and I've had him for
14 years, and been scratched and bitten on a pretty much daily basis,


He bites you on a daily basis? What a nasty little bugger.

Here in Australia, they say you've got far more of a chance of getting
toxoplasmosis from eating raw vegies (including salad items) than you do
from any cat, especially an indoor only one.


Interesting. Here people are much more worried about toxo. It's a big
issue for people with AIDS (or at least, it used to be, before effective
treatments were developed), but also for pregnant women. But I can't
deny that US culture is very fear-oriented and people tend to believe
that they can ward off danger by taking all the appropriate precautions.
The illusion of control over our destiny, I guess. Some of that is just
plain human, but it's a particularly strong trait in the USA.

getting into the car each day is a bigger risk to the Yowlet then
all the rest of the (controllable) risks combined.


Yeah, getting into a car is a huge risk, one that ironically we don't
tend to worry about very much. We'd rather worry about much more minor
dangers for some reason!

I quit worrying about eating soft cheeses and cleaning the
litterbox.


What risks do soft cheeses pose? (Eek, I might have some of those
lurking in my own fridge...)

Joyce
  #22  
Old March 17th 04, 07:07 PM
Annie Wxill
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"Mischief" wrote in message
om...
... First of all, I'm a little tired of having to clean up litter the
bathroom every day. My cats go overkill when it comes to burying
their stuff, so everytime they use the box there's about a cupful of
litter on the floor, even with a litter box with a lid around the
edges. Litter that I end up stepping on every time i go into the
bathroom. Do you know what's it like to get out of the shower and
step on cat litter? No matter how much I clean it up, it's always
there. And that happens every time, no matter where the litter box
is.
You probably would say to put the box in the garage. ...
Second, I'm a full time student and I also work. Expenses are tight
and 30 bucks a month on cat litter is a bit much. I can't use those
pearl/crystal types cause it doens't really lock in the odors. Since
I'm in the bathroom, I need flushable litter.

Thirdly, you say it's completely unnatural for a cat to do this. Oh,
is it natural for my cat to use my roommate's bed for a litterbox
while she's out of town? Is it natural for them to pee on carpet or
piles of clean clothes?

Finally, you say I'm a cruel person to do this. Wow, guess you have
joined all the people in this world that hate me. Guess I'm going to
stay up late and think long and hard about how I offended you.
Better refill my anti-depressants.


That's your opinion and I don't agree with it, but when it comes down
to it, I really don't give a care what you think.

If it works, cool. If not, I'll try to figure out other solutions.
I think it can work, and I'll just have to wait and see.

Kristi (unaffected)


Hi Kristi,
I wish I could find a litter that does not track, but so far I have not
succeeded. The mats by the boxes catch some of the litter, but the rest
ends up on the bathroom floor for one box and the laundry room floor for the
other. Although we have a garage, I would not consider putting the box out
there.
And, like you, I don't like stepping out of the shower and picking up litter
on the bottom of my feet. I reduced that problem by taking a few seconds to
grab a nearby broom and sweep the floor before I take a shower.
So, I understand your frustration. However, I have discovered that for
everything you get in life, you give something up. I consider the couple of
minutes a day it takes me to scoop the boxes and sweep the floor a small
hassle compared to the pleasure I get from the cats' company.
As for the peeing on the roommate's bed and your carpet, that is the usual
way a cat will tell you there is a problem in the environment. As the
human, it is your responsibility to find out what it is and solve it. It
could be a medical problem, or it could be that litter box is not cleaned
often enough, or not accessible, such as if you took the box away and
offered the toilet as the only alternative. In any of those cases, in answer
to your question, using the bed and carpets would be natural for the cat to
use.
Apparently, the $30 a month it costs for the cat litter is a major expense
for you. I'm not sure how many cats you have, but we have two cats, and use
Fresh Step Scoopable. It is excellent at odor control and I'm sure it costs
us less than $15 per month. We are in the U.S. and buy it at the grocery
store and at PetsMart.
If you can get the same deal, you'd only have to cut another $15 a month to
break even with reducing your expenses by $30.
If you really are fed up with spending the time, effort and money to care
for your cats without resentment, I think you should consider rehoming them
with someone who has the emotional, financial, and time resources to provide
for them. Maybe then you will be under less pressure and won't have to
refill those anti-depressants and save even more money. You'd have more time
to study (or sleep), too without all that time you're using to try to train
your cat to use the toilet or staying up late to worry about offending
people.
Best wishes in finding a solution that makes things better for both you and
your cats.
Annie


  #23  
Old March 17th 04, 08:53 PM
Steve Touchstone
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On 16 Mar 2004 20:30:55 -0800, (Mischief) wrote:

First of all, I'm a little tired of having to clean up litter the
bathroom every day. My cats go overkill when it comes to burying
their stuff, so everytime they use the box there's about a cupful of
litter on the floor, even with a litter box with a lid around the
edges. Litter that I end up stepping on every time i go into the
bathroom. Do you know what's it like to get out of the shower and
step on cat litter? No matter how much I clean it up, it's always
there. And that happens every time, no matter where the litter box
is.

This sounds fairly common. My Sammy has to dig around in fresh litter
whenever it's put out, so it's normal to expect to have to clean a cup
or two up even before anyone uses the stuff. When it is being using,
it's quite of normal to have some spilled out of the box, as well as a
little tracked out from whatever might be stuck between little toes.

What I do is just have a bath towel under the box that extends about
three inches on the side and a couple feet in front (I keep box my
boxes in the corner of the room). Most of what is tracked out is
caught on the towel before they hit the floor, and I can just lift the
towel and have it go back to the side of the box. Then, when I empty
the box I just pick up the towel and shake it out outside. Course, I
still end up having to sweep just about every night. Each box has its
own dedicated broom, with one of those dust pans on a pole so I don't
have to do any bending over - wouldn't want it to be too much work ;-)
Anyway, this seems to take care of the problem, to my satisfaction.
snip
Second, I'm a full time student and I also work. Expenses are tight
and 30 bucks a month on cat litter is a bit much. I can't use those
pearl/crystal types cause it doens't really lock in the odors. Since
I'm in the bathroom, I need flushable litter.

I just use Tidycats scoopable litter for multiple cats, which is a lot
cheaper than $30 a month - but hey, after years of working on tractors
with dust up my nose I can't smell much of anything, so maybe it's not
doing such a good job. OTOH, I don't have any trouble smelling the
clumps when I scoop it out. After some trial and error, I buy it in 27
or 35 lb plastic cans. These cans snap shut air tight, so once I have
an empty can I use it to store the dirty litter. Works for me, but
maybe not for everyone depending on how good their sniffer is.

Thirdly, you say it's completely unnatural for a cat to do this.

Since some cats "train" themselves to use a toilet, I don't think you
can say it's unnatural - and no way do I see it as cruel. Unusual or
odd? Yes, I'd agree, but not cruel. But unusual and odd behaivor seems
purrfectly normal for cats.
snip
If it works, cool. If not, I'll try to figure out other solutions.
I think it can work, and I'll just have to wait and see.

Kristi (unaffected)


--
Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky

[remove Junk for email]
Home Page:
http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html
  #24  
Old March 17th 04, 11:39 PM
Steve Touchstone
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:40:53 -0800, Seanette Blaylock
wrote:
snip
Felix doesn't seem to mind it [and his little paws are fine], and as I
said elsewhere in this discussion, I've found odor control much
*better* with the crystal litter. Box liners, OTOH, are rather less
than useless with him, as intensely as he digs :-).

Same with Sammy, who digs furiously whenever new litter is put out.
She's not interested in using the new litter, just playing in the
sand. Thankfully, once it's been used she waits for the next time
fresh litter comes before she plays.

I tried liners, and Sammy shreds them. I have a box, with maybe 2
liners used out of it, that I bought a year ago.

Felix's box resides in a hall closet, with plastic carpet protector
under it. One advantage to the gravel-shaped vs. round little balls,
it doesn't fly as far when he tunnels in it. :-)


--
Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky

[remove Junk for email]
Home Page:
http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html
  #25  
Old March 17th 04, 11:39 PM
Steve Touchstone
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On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:07:14 -0600, "Annie Wxill"
wrote:


"Mischief" wrote in message
. com...

snip
Finally, you say I'm a cruel person to do this. Wow, guess you have
joined all the people in this world that hate me. Guess I'm going to
stay up late and think long and hard about how I offended you.
Better refill my anti-depressants.


That's your opinion and I don't agree with it, but when it comes down
to it, I really don't give a care what you think.

If it works, cool. If not, I'll try to figure out other solutions.
I think it can work, and I'll just have to wait and see.

Kristi (unaffected)


Hi Kristi,

snip
If you really are fed up with spending the time, effort and money to care
for your cats without resentment, I think you should consider rehoming them
with someone who has the emotional, financial, and time resources to provide
for them. Maybe then you will be under less pressure and won't have to
refill those anti-depressants and save even more money. You'd have more time
to study (or sleep), too without all that time you're using to try to train
your cat to use the toilet or staying up late to worry about offending
people.
Best wishes in finding a solution that makes things better for both you and
your cats.
Annie

OK, here's my take, from her earlier posts. Kristi is new to
catslavedom, has two cats, Imp and Mischief, and has posted some great
stories and anecdotes. She has a web site with pix and stories about
her pets, her cats and a hampster (?) recently RB
(http://www.geocities.com/krysfamulan/stories.html).

Being new to taking care of cats, she's run into a problem which is
fairly common: the litterbox. She's tried various litters, and is now
trying to train her cats to use the toilet. When she posted that she
was going to give this a try, she recieved several responses, ranging
from "good luck", "I know someone who has a cat that uses the toilet",
to "it'll never work".

This current thread, sort of a mini flame war, started when Kristi
responded to someone who wrote that she was being cruel to force her
cats to use the toilet, that it is unnatural and they might slip off
the seat and fall in. The tone of her message is defensive and angry
at being told she was mistreating her cats, which I think is
understandable. From my reading of her latest message, I didn't get
the feeling that she was fed up with the time and expense of caring
for her cats, but was offended and angry being told she was being
cruel.

From Kristi's earlier posts, where she told of how she got her cats,
and the funny/crazy things they do (just like all cats, right) I think
indicate she loves Mischief and Imp. I look forward to reading more of
their adventures.

And, that's I have to say about it ;-)
--
Steve Touchstone,
faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky

[remove Junk for email]
Home Page:
http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html
Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html
  #26  
Old March 17th 04, 11:43 PM
Yowie
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wrote in message
...
Yowie wrote:

I figured that if Shmogg has toxoplasmosis, and I've had him for
14 years, and been scratched and bitten on a pretty much daily basis,


He bites you on a daily basis? What a nasty little bugger.


Pretty much on a daily basis. He lies in "crosshairs" of the hallway where
the entrance to the laundry, toilet and bathroom is, and waits for
unsuspecting feet to come past, and then attacks. And if that doesn't do it,
he hops into bed with me and does the cute purry thing till I'm asleep and
then bites the limbs that come too close to him during the night. Since I'm
a "thrasher", I get bitten pretty much every single night.

The biting is painful, but not usually enough to puncture the skin, but
those claws (which he uses as well) regularly draw blood. My hands and feet
are just one big maze of cat scratches, and I don't think I have been
completley scab-less since the day I got him.

And even worse, I still love the little b*st*rd! Otherwise known as the grey
furry terrorist, these days.

I quit worrying about eating soft cheeses and cleaning the
litterbox.


What risks do soft cheeses pose? (Eek, I might have some of those
lurking in my own fridge...)


Soft cheeses, cheeses with mold (blue vein types and camembert types) and
unpasteurised cheeses, as well as cured raw meat products such as salami and
ham, all have a small but slight risk of listeria.

I was also warned about buying take-away food that sits there for a while
before purchase, apparantly *that* is supposed to be quite dangerous to the
pregnancy as well. Freshly cooked stuff, or stuff that has a definate
turn-around time (like McDonalds) isn't so bad, but chicken shops are
allegedly notorious as the chickens sit there being warm (but not warm
enough) all day with lots of contaminants (and flies etc) in the air, and
the salads sit there being cold (but not cold enough) int he same
environment. Self-serve buffet places were supposed to be *really* bad
because people sneeze and cough and even just breath over the food, they use
their fingers (which may not be clean) and mix serving utensils between meat
and vegetable dishes, and raw food with cooked food. Cold seafood (such as
prawns an doysters) were also a big no-no. All present a slightly higher
risk of food poisoning than freshly and properly cooked food, and food
poisoning does present a small but real risk tot he fetus.

In the end, its your call as to risks versus returns. I figure I don't
smoke, barely drink (have had 3 standard drinks spread over 8 months), eat
good healthy food and have even started doing mild excercise. I am not big
on buffets or seafood, but do like my cheeses and salamis. In the end, I
made sure that I was purchasing brand-name soft cheeses and salamis from
reputable places with good turn overs, and wasn't really pigging out on
them, so the risk, although higher than if I abstained, was still minimised.
Besides, in the early days when I was throwing up all the time, I figured
that whatever stayed down, even if it was a higher risk, was still better
than anything considered "safe" that came straight back up again. And
wouldn't you know it, I never chucked up any of the "high risk" food - only
the really safe stuff.

And from all the testing done so far, the Yowlet is just fine.

Yowie


  #27  
Old March 18th 04, 12:06 AM
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Yowie wrote:

Self-serve buffet places were supposed to be *really* bad because
people sneeze and cough and even just breath over the food, they use
their fingers (which may not be clean) and mix serving utensils between
meat and vegetable dishes, and raw food with cooked food. Cold seafood
(such as prawns an doysters) were also a big no-no.


Aaaagh! I'm never going to a buffet place again!!

Joyce
  #28  
Old March 18th 04, 01:21 AM
Mischief
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If all else fails, then i'll probable go to the bathroom towel on the
floor idea. I kinda exaggerated a bit about my problems, but I'm not
going to find homes for my two kitties over something like this. The
peeing in my roommate's bed happened when we were first trying out
litters and Imp doesn't do that anymore. If they don't like the
status of the litter box, they'll pee on my clothes to give me the
message. Fresh Step does sound like a good idea, so it would just be
a matter of weaning them off the wheat litter.

I'm open to everyone's suggestions, and I thank everyone for their
input. I'm just trying out different ways. If the cats can be
trained, that would be cool. But if it doesn't work out, *sigh* then
I'll go back to being the proper cat slave scooping the litter box.


take care,

Kristi
  #29  
Old March 18th 04, 01:31 AM
Yowie
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"Seanette Blaylock" wrote in
message ...
"Hopitus2" had some very interesting things to
say about Toilet Training update:

Our litterboxes are very large, oval, rounded (no corners) and "giant"
liners fit well, with much side overlap. Broom & pan are cheap,
short-handled, and stay right there nearby. I gave up on that crystal
silicone litter simply because since it hurt *my* feet (you talk "sharp"

and
"pointy"! - that stuff is like shaved diamonds) little cat pads walking

on
it would also be hurting. Besides, I agree with her statement that odor
control is poor with the silicone, at least it was here.


Felix doesn't seem to mind it [and his little paws are fine], and as I
said elsewhere in this discussion, I've found odor control much
*better* with the crystal litter. Box liners, OTOH, are rather less
than useless with him, as intensely as he digs :-).


Shmogg shreds the liners too, but I have discovered if I put newspaper both
under and over the liner and *then* pour in the litter, he can't easily
puncture the plastic liner. And even if he does, the litter pretty much
stays put and you just get soggy newspaper at the bottom. Far easier to
clean than that strange cat-litter concrete that seems to form in the
corners fo the box that takes *ages* to get rid of (who knew cat poo and
clay made such a solid structure?) . Shmogg's favouritelitterbox is pretty
much exactly the same size as a tabloid newspaper, and we get two tabloid
newspapers delivered free each week. Cleaning out the box has been so much
easier since I started using the newspaper and the liners together.

Yowie

  #30  
Old March 18th 04, 02:14 AM
Annie Wxill
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"Mischief" wrote in message
om...
...
I'm open to everyone's suggestions, and I thank everyone for their
input. I'm just trying out different ways. If the cats can be
trained, that would be cool. But if it doesn't work out, *sigh* then
I'll go back to being the proper cat slave scooping the litter box.

Kristi


Kristi,
I hope that you will find a solution that is best for both you and your
cats. Please let us know how it goes.
Annie


 




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