Mama Rat update

unfortunately, this is a mixed good news / bad news update.

Bad news: As my co-workers's friend warned me, the babies did not
survive. We know of four who were born - two live and two stillborn.
But the two who were born alive died shortly after birth, never having
nursed. I'm told it is entirely possible that more were delivered
before I discovered them, as I came in and found two in the carrier,
and a mama rat sometimes will eat stillborn, ill, or extremely weak
young.

the good news is that Mama looks good.

Oh, and it looks like she'll be coming home to live with me, two
cockatiels, and 5 1/2 cats. Frank only counts as half a cat, despite
being the largest one, he still officially belongs to the neighbors.
Course he's decided he's my cat, and spends more and more of his time
here. I don't think he even goes home anymore, and during our current
heat spell he has been spending most of his time inside here under air
conditioning. Anyway, I went and looked at rat cages and picked out
what looks like a good one. Of course my first choice was vetoed by
the rat expert - to much plastic to chew on and easy to escape from.

Hopefully, the menagerie will all get along, or at least tolerate each
other. The one night mama rat was inside no one paid much attention,
just the type of curiosity they show the birds. It seems I skipped a
couple of the recommended steps for introducing rats to cats, but from
the night that they spent together it looks promising. I think the
cats just equate the rat to something else in a cage, like the birds,
that they are permitted to watch but not play with. All the cats
except Little Bit sat and watched the rat a couple minutes before
getting bored and leaving it alone. Little Bit wasn't interested
enough to pay any attention to it at all - especially since I had it
on the counter and LB very rarely gets on the counter. Mama rat
certainly shows no fear of cats, as she shared the outside bowl with
Little Sis, and I watched her totally ignore Frank ignoring her when
they were both on the patio.

We'll see what happens over the next few days. If they get along, I'll
buy the cage and she'll stay. If not, now I've found someone who will
be happy to take her and give her a good home. The biggest downsize
that I see to keeping a rat is their short life span, 2-3 year
average. The cage I looked at is supposed to be big enough for two or
three rats, so if things work out I may get Mama Rat a companion on
down the road.
--
Steve Touchstone
Little Bit, Sammy, Spotty, Princess, Furby
and Rocky (RB)
Pix at http://tinyurl.com/22pfn8
Vids at http://tinyurl.com/4yb6nj

"Steve Touchstone" wrote in message

unfortunately, this is a mixed good news / bad news update.

Bad news: As my co-workers's friend warned me, the babies did not
survive. We know of four who were born - two live and two stillborn.
But the two who were born alive died shortly after birth, never having
nursed. I'm told it is entirely possible that more were delivered
before I discovered them, as I came in and found two in the carrier,
and a mama rat sometimes will eat stillborn, ill, or extremely weak
young.

the good news is that Mama looks good.

Oh, and it looks like she'll be coming home to live with me, two
cockatiels, and 5 1/2 cats. Frank only counts as half a cat, despite
being the largest one, he still officially belongs to the neighbors.
Course he's decided he's my cat, and spends more and more of his time
here. I don't think he even goes home anymore, and during our current
heat spell he has been spending most of his time inside here under air
conditioning. Anyway, I went and looked at rat cages and picked out
what looks like a good one. Of course my first choice was vetoed by
the rat expert - to much plastic to chew on and easy to escape from.

Hopefully, the menagerie will all get along, or at least tolerate each
other. The one night mama rat was inside no one paid much attention,
just the type of curiosity they show the birds. It seems I skipped a
couple of the recommended steps for introducing rats to cats, but from
the night that they spent together it looks promising. I think the
cats just equate the rat to something else in a cage, like the birds,
that they are permitted to watch but not play with. All the cats
except Little Bit sat and watched the rat a couple minutes before
getting bored and leaving it alone. Little Bit wasn't interested
enough to pay any attention to it at all - especially since I had it
on the counter and LB very rarely gets on the counter. Mama rat
certainly shows no fear of cats, as she shared the outside bowl with
Little Sis, and I watched her totally ignore Frank ignoring her when
they were both on the patio.

We'll see what happens over the next few days. If they get along, I'll
buy the cage and she'll stay. If not, now I've found someone who will
be happy to take her and give her a good home. The biggest downsize
that I see to keeping a rat is their short life span, 2-3 year
average. The cage I looked at is supposed to be big enough for two or
three rats, so if things work out I may get Mama Rat a companion on
down the road.

Rats are social creatures and are much happier with ratty companions.
Another girl rat or two would make a happy tribe. There's lots of info out
there for keeping rats - the important thing it to keep their very active
minds focussed on something other than destruction, which is why
companionship is very importantant unless you are planning to spend *lots*
of time providing entertainment for them. They enjoy toys and puzzles and
exploring new places providing they have a safe place to retreat to. They
can easily be trained with treats (although getting the treat is the focus,
rather than the approval and praise of the alpha ie you) and are well aware
that they are both prey and predator and act accordingly (fast movement &
loud noises will scare them and they are happier in dim light). Otherwise,
though, they are more like dogs in behaviour than cats.

The rats I have known have accompanied their owners pretty much anywhere
their owner went, riding on the shoulder when it was ok for Ratty to be
seen, hanging around in their shoulder bag when it wasn't. They make a great
pet.

Yowie
--
If you're paddling upstream in a canoe and a wheel falls off, how many
pancakes can you fit in a doghouse? None, icecream doesn't have bones.

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:18:44 +1000, "Yowie"
wrote:

"Steve Touchstone" wrote in message

snip
We'll see what happens over the next few days. If they get along, I'll
buy the cage and she'll stay. If not, now I've found someone who will
be happy to take her and give her a good home. The biggest downsize
that I see to keeping a rat is their short life span, 2-3 year
average. The cage I looked at is supposed to be big enough for two or
three rats, so if things work out I may get Mama Rat a companion on
down the road.

Rats are social creatures and are much happier with ratty companions.
Another girl rat or two would make a happy tribe. There's lots of info out
there for keeping rats - the important thing it to keep their very active
minds focussed on something other than destruction, which is why
companionship is very importantant unless you are planning to spend *lots*
of time providing entertainment for them.

That's what I'm thinking. Seems like all the articles stress that they
do much better when they have a other rats for company. One of the
sites I now have bookmarked is the rat shack ( http://www.jorats.com/
) thanks to moonglow minnow's post.


They enjoy toys and puzzles and
exploring new places providing they have a safe place to retreat to. They
can easily be trained with treats (although getting the treat is the focus,
rather than the approval and praise of the alpha ie you) and are well aware
that they are both prey and predator and act accordingly (fast movement &
loud noises will scare them and they are happier in dim light). Otherwise,
though, they are more like dogs in behaviour than cats.

The rats I have known have accompanied their owners pretty much anywhere
their owner went, riding on the shoulder when it was ok for Ratty to be
seen, hanging around in their shoulder bag when it wasn't. They make a great
pet.

Yowie

during the short time Mama rat was here she showed she loved being
carried around - also she wanted to burrow down inside my overalls
LOL.

I was asked several times today why I was looking at the more
expensive cages when ones at half the price were big enough for one
rat. That was a lesson I learned with my birds - always buy the best
cage you can easily afford. If things work out that I do end up with
Mama rat, I'm sure I'll end up getting her a companion, so it needs to
be big enough for a couple rats. Besides, the bigger the cages look
easier to maintain, and will fit in more toys to keep them occupied -
which sounds to be as important with rats as I've found it to be with
birds.
--
Steve Touchstone
Little Bit, Sammy, Spotty, Princess, Furby
and Rocky (RB)
Pix at http://tinyurl.com/22pfn8
Vids at http://tinyurl.com/4yb6nj

ok so are you going to have a naming contest? I wold never imagine having a
rat for a pet, but then i never thought i would be a crazy cat lady with way
more cats than sense either, good on you for doint the right things, Lee
"Steve Touchstone" wrote in message
...
unfortunately, this is a mixed good news / bad news update.

Bad news: As my co-workers's friend warned me, the babies did not
survive. We know of four who were born - two live and two stillborn.
But the two who were born alive died shortly after birth, never having
nursed. I'm told it is entirely possible that more were delivered
before I discovered them, as I came in and found two in the carrier,
and a mama rat sometimes will eat stillborn, ill, or extremely weak
young.

the good news is that Mama looks good.

Oh, and it looks like she'll be coming home to live with me, two
cockatiels, and 5 1/2 cats. Frank only counts as half a cat, despite
being the largest one, he still officially belongs to the neighbors.
Course he's decided he's my cat, and spends more and more of his time
here. I don't think he even goes home anymore, and during our current
heat spell he has been spending most of his time inside here under air
conditioning. Anyway, I went and looked at rat cages and picked out
what looks like a good one. Of course my first choice was vetoed by
the rat expert - to much plastic to chew on and easy to escape from.

Hopefully, the menagerie will all get along, or at least tolerate each
other. The one night mama rat was inside no one paid much attention,
just the type of curiosity they show the birds. It seems I skipped a
couple of the recommended steps for introducing rats to cats, but from
the night that they spent together it looks promising. I think the
cats just equate the rat to something else in a cage, like the birds,
that they are permitted to watch but not play with. All the cats
except Little Bit sat and watched the rat a couple minutes before
getting bored and leaving it alone. Little Bit wasn't interested
enough to pay any attention to it at all - especially since I had it
on the counter and LB very rarely gets on the counter. Mama rat
certainly shows no fear of cats, as she shared the outside bowl with
Little Sis, and I watched her totally ignore Frank ignoring her when
they were both on the patio.

We'll see what happens over the next few days. If they get along, I'll
buy the cage and she'll stay. If not, now I've found someone who will
be happy to take her and give her a good home. The biggest downsize
that I see to keeping a rat is their short life span, 2-3 year
average. The cage I looked at is supposed to be big enough for two or
three rats, so if things work out I may get Mama Rat a companion on
down the road.
--
Steve Touchstone
Little Bit, Sammy, Spotty, Princess, Furby
and Rocky (RB)
Pix at http://tinyurl.com/22pfn8
Vids at http://tinyurl.com/4yb6nj

The rats I have known have accompanied their owners pretty much
anywhere their owner went

My girlfriend once answered the door to an evangelist with a rat
inside her blouse. He rapidly decided that someone with three
boobs, one of which moved of its own accord, wasn't a likely
subject for conversion.

==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === http://www.campin.me.uk ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

Steve Touchstone wrote:
unfortunately, this is a mixed good news / bad news update.

Bad news: As my co-workers's friend warned me, the babies did not
survive. We know of four who were born - two live and two stillborn.

This may be for the best. If mama rat had been outside for long enough,
there's the possibility that the babies were half-wild, and half-wild
rats take special care from special rat lovers as they don't have the
cross-species social skills of their domesticated brethren.

We'll see what happens over the next few days. If they get along, I'll
buy the cage and she'll stay. If not, now I've found someone who will
be happy to take her and give her a good home. The biggest downsize
that I see to keeping a rat is their short life span, 2-3 year
average. The cage I looked at is supposed to be big enough for two or
three rats, so if things work out I may get Mama Rat a companion on
down the road.

Congratulations, as I'm fairly sure the kitties will keep to their
thing-in-a-cage opinion of her. I do advise getting her a companion
sooner rather than later if possible, though, as rats truly thrive with
companionship from their own species. Avoid pet stores, as they rarely
bother to treat disease or separate by sex. There are rat rescues within
reach of almost everywhere if you look hard enough (I'd help in the
looking but I don't know your general location), they usually have the
skills to help you through introductions, and some will even deliver.


Maeve ^..^ crazy rat lady too
--
http://moonglowminnow.wordpress.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:32:45 -0500, moonglow minnow
wrote:

Congratulations, as I'm fairly sure the kitties will keep to their
thing-in-a-cage opinion of her. I do advise getting her a companion
sooner rather than later if possible, though, as rats truly thrive with
companionship from their own species. Avoid pet stores, as they rarely
bother to treat disease or separate by sex. There are rat rescues within
reach of almost everywhere if you look hard enough (I'd help in the
looking but I don't know your general location), they usually have the
skills to help you through introductions, and some will even deliver.

So far everything looks good. Whenever one of the cats walk by they
pause to look in and see if there's anything worth watching going on
inside. Princess is the only one I've had to scold for reaching inside
- she wasn't trying to hurt the rat, just being curious. Pretty much
everything I'm reading agrees with you about rats being happier if
they have others of their species to interact with. The girl at work
has a single rat and insists it's perfectly happy - but she lets it
roam freely whenever she's home, which won't be happening around here
with 5 cats. I'm thinking I'll get her a companion once I'm sure she's
healthy - she has a TED appointment on Friday morning to be checked
out. I think it may go better if I introduce a second rat before this
one gets to settled to accept someone else into her territory.

I went through your photos again to get an idea about toys, etc. Looks
like you have one of those critter nation cages. The cage I settled on
is one of the 'my first home' cages with a couple platforms. Since
it's more than twice the size of some of the smaller cages I figure
two rats should be happy in it.

Still experimenting on what she likes to eat as treats (Kay tee forti
diet was recommended as her stable food). So far her favorite has been
a piece of tomatoes right off the vine - I gave it to her even though
the first site, WikiAnswer, advised against tomatoes because of the
acidity, but other sites said it was fine as long as she didn't eat to
much.

--
Steve Touchstone
Little Bit, Sammy, Spotty, Princess, Furby
and Rocky (RB)
Pix at http://tinyurl.com/22pfn8
Vids at http://tinyurl.com/4yb6nj

On Jul 15, 9:11*pm, Steve Touchstone
wrote:
Still experimenting on what she likes to eat as treats (Kay tee forti
diet was recommended as her stable food). So far her favorite has been
a piece of tomatoes right off the vine - I gave it to her even though
the first site, WikiAnswer, advised against tomatoes because of the
acidity, but other sites said it was fine as long as she didn't eat to
much.


Hi Steve,

I have had many rats over the years, so hopefully my experience will
help you.

First, diet is very important. Stay away from seed mixes or pellets
that contain corn. Neiither of these are the best diet and corn has
been implicated in some cancer. Ideally you want to have access to
corn free blocks and feed fresh food at least once a day. My last rat
had some of whatever I had for dinner (as long as it was safe) and he
lived for more than 4 years which is rare. A good basic food would be
Oxbow, which you can find he
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=0031740000000
Make sure to keep it sealed in an airtight container.

You will find a very good list of good foods and *unsafe* foods he
http://pet-nutrition.suite101.com/ar...foods_for_rats
Rats are omnivores and things like chicken are fine. Mine loved
chicken, carrots and scrambled eggs. Also yogurt and a little bit of
cheese here and there. I fed him fresh food every day and always gave
him something different.

As far as bedding, keep in mind that rodents can be prone to upper
respiratory issues, so using an unscented bedding like aspen or
carefresh will help minimize this. Also, rats like to eliminate in
corners so most of their urine waste will be easy to find and clean
out. Make sure to scoop poop and urine out at least once *every day*
( I just used a large plastic spoon I could wash) and also completely
change the bedding and wipe out the cage where the bedding is at least
once a week. You never want the bedding to smell as that means they
are breathing in toxic fumes and living in dirty bedding.

Also be aware that their teeth always grow, so it is imperative you
provide things the rat can chew on to keep the teeth worn down or the
teeth can get too long and impair their eating ability. Teeth can be
trimmed, but that should be done by a rodent friendly veterinarian.
They also like boxes or other hidey holes and you can usually find rat
friendly ones online or in stores.

Rats are very easy to care for and make wonderful pets. I think you'll
enjoy this little lady very much. :-)

Steve Touchstone wrote:

So far everything looks good. Whenever one of the cats walk by they
pause to look in and see if there's anything worth watching going on
inside. Princess is the only one I've had to scold for reaching inside
- she wasn't trying to hurt the rat, just being curious. Pretty much
everything I'm reading agrees with you about rats being happier if
they have others of their species to interact with. The girl at work
has a single rat and insists it's perfectly happy - but she lets it
roam freely whenever she's home, which won't be happening around here
with 5 cats. I'm thinking I'll get her a companion once I'm sure she's
healthy - she has a TED appointment on Friday morning to be checked
out. I think it may go better if I introduce a second rat before this
one gets to settled to accept someone else into her territory.

Yay! If you can, when it comes to introductions, I'd suggest following
Jorats' methods - start with swapping cloths/hammocks from cage to cage.
When all goes well with that, try a 'scary place' introduction, like in
the bathtub/bathroom with the stopper in/door closed -be sure to watch
for little hidey holes if you give them the whole bathroom. Next, go to
'neutral territory', an area where both rats get play time. When
everything seems like they're best friends on neutral territory, it's
time to scrub down the cage with soap and water (or water and vinegar),
rinse well, and put them together in the cage. If there's more than
minor squabbles at any stage, go back to the previous one for a while.

I went through your photos again to get an idea about toys, etc. Looks
like you have one of those critter nation cages. The cage I settled on
is one of the 'my first home' cages with a couple platforms. Since
it's more than twice the size of some of the smaller cages I figure
two rats should be happy in it.

I really really wish I had a critter nation - they're super easy to
clean and from what I heard easy to put together and take apart too. One
of the things that starts to grind the fastest with rats is cleaning up,
and being able to open up the whole front of the cage is a huge bonus
with that. It's also a huge bonus when you have to socialize skittish
rats. If you can afford a critter nation at some point go for it, you
will not regret it. Just get the one-level though so you'll be less
suceptable to GGMR (gotta get more rats).

As far as toys, old school baby and toddler toys (no soft plastic, no
batteries) and bird toys seem to be favorites.

Still experimenting on what she likes to eat as treats (Kay tee forti
diet was recommended as her stable food). So far her favorite has been
a piece of tomatoes right off the vine - I gave it to her even though
the first site, WikiAnswer, advised against tomatoes because of the
acidity, but other sites said it was fine as long as she didn't eat to
much.

For a staple food, try either Oxbow Regal Rat or Harlan Teklad. Harlan
is harder to find (many rescues sell it, including my most local rescue
Capital City Rat Rescue) but more rats like it, and it's less expensive.
Most other "rat" diets are junk food at best and mildly toxic at worst.
Kaytee's forti diet specifically contains carcinogenic preservatives,
and I've lost rats to intestinal cancer on that diet.

For treats, check against the forbidden foods list at
http://www.petratscanada.com/forbidden_foods.htm and pretty much
anything else that you can eat goes. Veggies are best, and try not to
give her too much of something at once, especially at first. Too much
when her system isn't used to it will lead to mushy poops. Dry pasta and
cereals are fun, and with several rats it sounds a bit like a 1950s
typing pool. Try to avoid anything too sugary or salty, though the
frosted shredded wheat every once in a while is okay.

Maeve ^..^
--
http://moonglowminnow.wordpress.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/

Steve Touchstone skrev:

We'll see what happens over the next few days. If they get along, I'll
buy the cage and she'll stay. If not, now I've found someone who will
be happy to take her and give her a good home. The biggest downsize
that I see to keeping a rat is their short life span, 2-3 year
average. The cage I looked at is supposed to be big enough for two or
three rats, so if things work out I may get Mama Rat a companion on
down the road.

chuckle Why am I not surprised that you are now a proud Rat Paw? Purrs
that it all works out.

--
Marina