A cat forum. CatBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CatBanter forum » Cat Newsgroups » Cat health & behaviour
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Combining Hill's c/d-s and Uroeze (Ammonium Chloride)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 4th 03, 03:43 AM
MarkF
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Combining Hill's c/d-s and Uroeze (Ammonium Chloride)

I have a question regarding my cat with FLUTD. My cat had two
episodes of being blocked so the doctor recommended him eating a
prescription food, Hill's c/d-s. The cat would not eat it at all,
neither canned nor dry, so instead the doctor recommended that we put
Uroeze (Ammonium Chloride) in his normal wet food. This worked well
and the cat ate the food. Sometimes as a snack, my wife tried giving
him the dry Hill's c/d-s food and he began to eat that. Recently when
we spoke to the doctor he told us that the cat should not eat both
food, only one or the other.

This does not make much sense to me. The analogy that I used was if a
person was vitamin C deficient and a doctor said, "You can eat 10
oranges or 8 lemons a day", it would be perfectly legitimate to eat 5
oranges and 4 lemons and you should still get the same amount of
vitamin C. Or another analogy would be if you were trying to eat low
fat foods, you should be able to eat any low fat food, not just one.
The same logic should apply to the cat foods.

Has anyone else had experience with this? Any advice? Thanks!

Sincerely,

Mark
  #2  
Old September 4th 03, 12:44 PM
Karen Chuplis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

in article , MarkF at
wrote on 9/3/03 9:43 PM:

I have a question regarding my cat with FLUTD. My cat had two
episodes of being blocked so the doctor recommended him eating a
prescription food, Hill's c/d-s. The cat would not eat it at all,
neither canned nor dry, so instead the doctor recommended that we put
Uroeze (Ammonium Chloride) in his normal wet food. This worked well
and the cat ate the food. Sometimes as a snack, my wife tried giving
him the dry Hill's c/d-s food and he began to eat that. Recently when
we spoke to the doctor he told us that the cat should not eat both
food, only one or the other.

This does not make much sense to me. The analogy that I used was if a
person was vitamin C deficient and a doctor said, "You can eat 10
oranges or 8 lemons a day", it would be perfectly legitimate to eat 5
oranges and 4 lemons and you should still get the same amount of
vitamin C. Or another analogy would be if you were trying to eat low
fat foods, you should be able to eat any low fat food, not just one.
The same logic should apply to the cat foods.

Has anyone else had experience with this? Any advice? Thanks!

Sincerely,

Mark


Wet is better than dry because of the extra water content, but since c/d is
specifically for the treatment of FLUTD, I'm not sure why dry as a snack
would be a no no from that standpoint, only that perhaps the doctor also
wants as much as possible. There are a couple of different vet brands for
this, but if he eats the c/d now, I guess I'd leave it at that. Also, put
bowls of water all over the house to remind him to drink.

Karen

  #3  
Old September 4th 03, 12:44 PM
Karen Chuplis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

in article , MarkF at
wrote on 9/3/03 9:43 PM:

I have a question regarding my cat with FLUTD. My cat had two
episodes of being blocked so the doctor recommended him eating a
prescription food, Hill's c/d-s. The cat would not eat it at all,
neither canned nor dry, so instead the doctor recommended that we put
Uroeze (Ammonium Chloride) in his normal wet food. This worked well
and the cat ate the food. Sometimes as a snack, my wife tried giving
him the dry Hill's c/d-s food and he began to eat that. Recently when
we spoke to the doctor he told us that the cat should not eat both
food, only one or the other.

This does not make much sense to me. The analogy that I used was if a
person was vitamin C deficient and a doctor said, "You can eat 10
oranges or 8 lemons a day", it would be perfectly legitimate to eat 5
oranges and 4 lemons and you should still get the same amount of
vitamin C. Or another analogy would be if you were trying to eat low
fat foods, you should be able to eat any low fat food, not just one.
The same logic should apply to the cat foods.

Has anyone else had experience with this? Any advice? Thanks!

Sincerely,

Mark


Wet is better than dry because of the extra water content, but since c/d is
specifically for the treatment of FLUTD, I'm not sure why dry as a snack
would be a no no from that standpoint, only that perhaps the doctor also
wants as much as possible. There are a couple of different vet brands for
this, but if he eats the c/d now, I guess I'd leave it at that. Also, put
bowls of water all over the house to remind him to drink.

Karen

  #4  
Old September 4th 03, 03:26 PM
Alison Smiley Perera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
(MarkF) wrote:

I have a question regarding my cat with FLUTD. My cat had two
episodes of being blocked so the doctor recommended him eating a
prescription food, Hill's c/d-s. The cat would not eat it at all,
neither canned nor dry, so instead the doctor recommended that we put
Uroeze (Ammonium Chloride) in his normal wet food. This worked well
and the cat ate the food. Sometimes as a snack, my wife tried giving
him the dry Hill's c/d-s food and he began to eat that. Recently when
we spoke to the doctor he told us that the cat should not eat both
food, only one or the other.

This does not make much sense to me. The analogy that I used was if a
person was vitamin C deficient and a doctor said, "You can eat 10
oranges or 8 lemons a day", it would be perfectly legitimate to eat 5
oranges and 4 lemons and you should still get the same amount of
vitamin C. Or another analogy would be if you were trying to eat low
fat foods, you should be able to eat any low fat food, not just one.
The same logic should apply to the cat foods.

Has anyone else had experience with this? Any advice? Thanks!


I think that the concern is that it is possible to over-acidify the
urine by combining the Uro-Eze and the c/d-s (which of course has an
acidifier built in). The vet's instructions, perhaps even the bag of
c/d-s, is full of warnings not to use acidifiers concurrently with the
prescription diet. I'm not sure how the Uroeze works physiologically,
whether its effects could carry over, so frankly I'd trust your vet on
this one if you've been quite clear with him on how you're managing the
cat's diet.

My cat has had both struvite crystals (form readily in alkaline urine,
can be dissolved by acid urine) and oxalate crystals (form readily in
acid urine and cannot be dissolved) so I am leery of mucking with my
boy's pH with artificial acidifiers. Oxalate crystals are present in
nearly 50% of clinical cases of FLUTD these days, so I'd think anyone
whose cat had the disorder would be similarly concerned. Since the
A-Number-One factor in prevention of blockage is providing a dilute
urine (if he's peeing a lot and frequently, he's flushing the bladder,
crystals have a hard time forming, mucus plugs have a hard time forming,
etc.) I personally think that feeding a wet diet (I even add water until
each meal is soupy) is of major importance and I don't bother fiddling
with pH or prescription diets. So if your vet is saying, feed the plain
wet food and if you have to give crunchy treats use the c/d-s? That
makes plenty of sense to me.

-Alison in OH
  #5  
Old September 4th 03, 03:26 PM
Alison Smiley Perera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
(MarkF) wrote:

I have a question regarding my cat with FLUTD. My cat had two
episodes of being blocked so the doctor recommended him eating a
prescription food, Hill's c/d-s. The cat would not eat it at all,
neither canned nor dry, so instead the doctor recommended that we put
Uroeze (Ammonium Chloride) in his normal wet food. This worked well
and the cat ate the food. Sometimes as a snack, my wife tried giving
him the dry Hill's c/d-s food and he began to eat that. Recently when
we spoke to the doctor he told us that the cat should not eat both
food, only one or the other.

This does not make much sense to me. The analogy that I used was if a
person was vitamin C deficient and a doctor said, "You can eat 10
oranges or 8 lemons a day", it would be perfectly legitimate to eat 5
oranges and 4 lemons and you should still get the same amount of
vitamin C. Or another analogy would be if you were trying to eat low
fat foods, you should be able to eat any low fat food, not just one.
The same logic should apply to the cat foods.

Has anyone else had experience with this? Any advice? Thanks!


I think that the concern is that it is possible to over-acidify the
urine by combining the Uro-Eze and the c/d-s (which of course has an
acidifier built in). The vet's instructions, perhaps even the bag of
c/d-s, is full of warnings not to use acidifiers concurrently with the
prescription diet. I'm not sure how the Uroeze works physiologically,
whether its effects could carry over, so frankly I'd trust your vet on
this one if you've been quite clear with him on how you're managing the
cat's diet.

My cat has had both struvite crystals (form readily in alkaline urine,
can be dissolved by acid urine) and oxalate crystals (form readily in
acid urine and cannot be dissolved) so I am leery of mucking with my
boy's pH with artificial acidifiers. Oxalate crystals are present in
nearly 50% of clinical cases of FLUTD these days, so I'd think anyone
whose cat had the disorder would be similarly concerned. Since the
A-Number-One factor in prevention of blockage is providing a dilute
urine (if he's peeing a lot and frequently, he's flushing the bladder,
crystals have a hard time forming, mucus plugs have a hard time forming,
etc.) I personally think that feeding a wet diet (I even add water until
each meal is soupy) is of major importance and I don't bother fiddling
with pH or prescription diets. So if your vet is saying, feed the plain
wet food and if you have to give crunchy treats use the c/d-s? That
makes plenty of sense to me.

-Alison in OH
  #6  
Old September 4th 03, 04:08 PM
MarkF
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ammonium chloride also tastes bad so it is interesting that a cat will
tolerate it mixed in its food.


Aparently Uroeze adds additional ingredients to make the Ammonium
Chloride more palatable. Another thing they add is salt, which
probably makes the cat more thirsty. The cat doesn't seem to mind the
taste - actually he laps up the "gravy" (the food is the kind with
bits of meat in a gravy and we mix the powder in with extra water).
Occasionally he throws up after drinking too much of the liquid at
once, but I've read that is a possible side-effect.

One thing about diets for cats with urinary tract disease is that they
are low in ash content. What does the vet say on that subject?


He hasn't commented on this. I've read various comments about ash
content, some saying it's significant and some saying not, so I'm not
really sure what to think about it.

Thanks for the feedback!

Mark
  #7  
Old September 4th 03, 04:08 PM
MarkF
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ammonium chloride also tastes bad so it is interesting that a cat will
tolerate it mixed in its food.


Aparently Uroeze adds additional ingredients to make the Ammonium
Chloride more palatable. Another thing they add is salt, which
probably makes the cat more thirsty. The cat doesn't seem to mind the
taste - actually he laps up the "gravy" (the food is the kind with
bits of meat in a gravy and we mix the powder in with extra water).
Occasionally he throws up after drinking too much of the liquid at
once, but I've read that is a possible side-effect.

One thing about diets for cats with urinary tract disease is that they
are low in ash content. What does the vet say on that subject?


He hasn't commented on this. I've read various comments about ash
content, some saying it's significant and some saying not, so I'm not
really sure what to think about it.

Thanks for the feedback!

Mark
  #8  
Old September 4th 03, 08:12 PM
Steve Crane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(MarkF) wrote in message om...
I have a question regarding my cat with FLUTD. My cat had two
episodes of being blocked so the doctor recommended him eating a
prescription food, Hill's c/d-s. The cat would not eat it at all,
neither canned nor dry, so instead the doctor recommended that we put
Uroeze (Ammonium Chloride) in his normal wet food. This worked well
and the cat ate the food. Sometimes as a snack, my wife tried giving
him the dry Hill's c/d-s food and he began to eat that. Recently when
we spoke to the doctor he told us that the cat should not eat both
food, only one or the other.

This does not make much sense to me. The analogy that I used was if a
person was vitamin C deficient and a doctor said, "You can eat 10
oranges or 8 lemons a day", it would be perfectly legitimate to eat 5
oranges and 4 lemons and you should still get the same amount of
vitamin C. Or another analogy would be if you were trying to eat low
fat foods, you should be able to eat any low fat food, not just one.
The same logic should apply to the cat foods.


Mark,
Your veterinarian is quite correct on this one. If you dose the cat
with Uroeze according to directions and then add in a food which is
designed to acidify the diet to the proper range of 6.2-6.4 you run
the risk of over acidifying the diet and endangering the cat with the
formation of Calcium Oxalte crystals which form in aicd urine below
6.2.
  #9  
Old September 4th 03, 08:12 PM
Steve Crane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(MarkF) wrote in message om...
I have a question regarding my cat with FLUTD. My cat had two
episodes of being blocked so the doctor recommended him eating a
prescription food, Hill's c/d-s. The cat would not eat it at all,
neither canned nor dry, so instead the doctor recommended that we put
Uroeze (Ammonium Chloride) in his normal wet food. This worked well
and the cat ate the food. Sometimes as a snack, my wife tried giving
him the dry Hill's c/d-s food and he began to eat that. Recently when
we spoke to the doctor he told us that the cat should not eat both
food, only one or the other.

This does not make much sense to me. The analogy that I used was if a
person was vitamin C deficient and a doctor said, "You can eat 10
oranges or 8 lemons a day", it would be perfectly legitimate to eat 5
oranges and 4 lemons and you should still get the same amount of
vitamin C. Or another analogy would be if you were trying to eat low
fat foods, you should be able to eat any low fat food, not just one.
The same logic should apply to the cat foods.


Mark,
Your veterinarian is quite correct on this one. If you dose the cat
with Uroeze according to directions and then add in a food which is
designed to acidify the diet to the proper range of 6.2-6.4 you run
the risk of over acidifying the diet and endangering the cat with the
formation of Calcium Oxalte crystals which form in aicd urine below
6.2.
  #10  
Old September 6th 03, 09:00 PM
MarkF
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Your veterinarian is quite correct on this one. If you dose the cat
with Uroeze according to directions and then add in a food which is
designed to acidify the diet to the proper range of 6.2-6.4 you run
the risk of over acidifying the diet and endangering the cat with the
formation of Calcium Oxalte crystals which form in aicd urine below
6.2.


I spoke to my vet about the situation (my wife spoke to him first) and
though at first he kept to his first argument, ultimately he agreed
with me. I started by explaining that the cat primarily eats the
Uroeze-treated wet food, but that as a "snack" we give him a small
amount of the dry found. He again tried to argue that this would
"over acidify" him, but again this sounded like the argument of
getting too much vitamin C because you're eating oranges and lemons
instead of oranges only. I then asked, "as a snack, should I then
feed him non-prescription food instead?" and he answered, "no, the cat
should only eat prescription food." "Like the Hill's diet, for
example?" as asked. "Yes, that would be good," was his reply.

People don't seem to get the point that eating two foods with an
acidying effect should be the same as eating one food (as long as the
total quantities of food are equal). This seems like very basic
science to me. The only way that using both should increase the
acidifying effect is if I were add the Uroeze to the Hill's diet,
which I am not.

Ultimately, I think I stick with the current plan. Eating primarily
wet food will give him the liquid he needs, and the 1/2 cup of Hill's
diet at night will give him something to crunch on, which he likes.
As a 27 pound Maine Coon monster, the 1/2 cup shouldn't have that much
impact either way.

Thanks for everyone's advice!

Mark
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CatBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.